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Northern timetable changes May 2019

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Greybeard33

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EMUs between Manchester and Preston frees up 10 DMUs (Pacers and 150s). They have received a large number of cascaded units since December too. I think the Chester extension requires two extra units and the Cumbrian one (3 X 158s?). If the refurbishments have been timed with this in mind then it should be fine.
From RTT, the short Airport - Preston via Wigan workings from May until July appear to comprise a single diagram. Although these are pathed for a 158, the ECS workings at either end of the diagram suggest that the plan is for it to be worked by a 319. This will presumably stretch Northern's EMU resources to the limit, if all services on the Chorley line are also worked by EMUs.
 
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darloscott

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They struggle to resource all the 319 diagrams now never mind putting extras in. Unless there is some 319s spare somewhere they can bring in for a few months. Presuming there is yard space on an evening to store them
 

Mathew S

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They struggle to resource all the 319 diagrams now never mind putting extras in. Unless there is some 319s spare somewhere they can bring in for a few months. Presuming there is yard space on an evening to store them
I did see a 319/2 (didn't get the exact number) sat at Crewe yesterday, in the plain white livery, so it's not impossible that Arriva are getting in a few extra on the short term. Probably just wishful thinking, but you never know.
 

NoMorePacers

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Given their current EMU shortage, they probably should keep their 321/322 fleet, and redeploy them to the newly-electrified lines, possibly taking some of Greater Anglia's units as well?
 

Mathew S

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Given their current EMU shortage, they probably should keep their 321/322 fleet, and redeploy them to the newly-electrified lines, possibly taking some of Greater Anglia's units as well?
Certainly they shouldn't be allowing them to leave unless/until new stock is in place to replace it.
 

northernchris

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EMUs between Manchester and Preston frees up 10 DMUs (Pacers and 150s). They have received a large number of cascaded units since December too. I think the Chester extension requires two extra units and the Cumbrian one (3 X 158s?). If the refurbishments have been timed with this in mind then it should be fine.

The cascaded units aren't making much of an impact going by the current levels of shortforming!! Although it does look like some of the extra services are being run by using units which currently sit idle between the peaks (such as extending the York-Preston to Blackpool) but this could put further pressure on already stretched diesel fleet


They struggle to resource all the 319 diagrams now never mind putting extras in. Unless there is some 319s spare somewhere they can bring in for a few months. Presuming there is yard space on an evening to store them

There's some slack in the 323 fleet so it may be possible to get additional EMUs in service with some rejigging
 

Thomas6187

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Going a bit further in to the new timetable, and in connection with some new sidings being built, Northern are going to start using Ardwick TMD to stable trains. This looks like it will start in September

Northern at Ardwick TMD
 

Old Yard Dog

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Now Streethouse and Featherstone have a Sunday service, what Northern routes still don't have (or plan to have) a Sunday service? Chathill-Newcastle and the Scunthorpe-Donny stopper spring to mind.

Ellesmere Port to Helsby, Kirkby to Wigan
 
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Not sure if it has been mentioned already, but after looking at the new timetables, it appears the line between Wigan & Liverpool is to go from 2tph to 1tph on Sundays, when it loses it's semi-fast service. Possibly a way of addressing a lack of Sunday staff?
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Regarding "No Sunday Service", is/will that still be the case with Trafford Park, Humphrey Park, Chassen Road, and Flixton?

I seem to remember it being Monday to Saturday service in the Great Britain Passenger Railway timetable book back in 1989/90 or thereabouts.
 
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Congleton has a Sunday service but it's abysmal and should be hourly. I personally don't think ELP-Helsby really needs one. ELP has MerseyRail and Helsby has TfW (and northern from May). Kirkby to Wigan should have a service, maybe 1 tp2h.
Helsby may also have Merseyrail after the new battery stock is trialled next year.
 

js1000

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One quirk I have noticed in the timetable from May is the 07:50 from Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street via Warrington Central has been moved to start from Wilmslow at 07:48.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y67464/2019/05/27/advanced

However as such it has also been removed from timetable 21 so the 7:50 now shows as Saturday's only giving the perception that East Didsbury and Mauldeth Road will lose one of their peak time trains (if commuters only look at that summary timetable).
I'm assuming that the reason for the change will either be pathing or platform occupation at the airport.
Is this just Northern deciding that as the service doesn't start from the Airport like every other one it can't go in the summary timetable?
The minor alterations to Manchester Airport trains from May during peak do make a lot of sense to be honest.

At the moment, the 08:03 from Piccadilly arrives at Manchester Airport at 8:23. It then needs to leave the Airport at 08:28. The effective turnaround time is 2 minutes as 3 minutes is factored in for the driver and conductor to switch ends - it's such a ridiculous turnaround time considering the congestion problems through Manchester. Some much needed "padding" has been introduced, albeit not a lot, only a few minutes reducing the likelihood of having to skip stops and turnaround at Piccadilly.

The peak time extension to Wilmslow for Liverpool to Airport train also makes a lot of sense as well. Wilmslow is a popular train station as the town is a major employer. It would represent one of the very few timetable improvements on the Manchester Airport that Northern have made since the new franchise started. The extension to Wilmslow also gives them the option of saving some time and turning around at the Airport if it is running late so there is some additional flexibility into that path.
 

Jorge Da Silva

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https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/n...al-set-for-first-weekday-service-for-30-years

Northern is set to give Gainsborough Central its first weekday rail service for almost 30 years.

The new service at Gainsborough will see hourly trains to and from Sheffield (Monday to Saturday), providing the first weekday service to the station since 1993.

We already operate to Lea Road, but this change means there will be two trains per hour between Gainsborough and Sheffield. It also allows us to speed up the service between Sheffield and Lincoln.

Steve Hopkinson, Regional Director at Northern, said: “We’re delighted to be able to bring weekday services back to Gainsborough Central, giving people in north Lincolnshire the improved rail links they have been demanding for so long.

“Gainsborough itself has changed dramatically since the train service was withdrawn, and now offers great retail and leisure opportunities for the region. As the name suggests, Gainsborough Central is right in the heart of the town and will service these opportunities.

“The new service provides excellent links between the town and all stops to Sheffield, opening up new commuting, business and leisure opportunities. It also means that the existing Leeds to Lincoln service will be faster as it will stop at fewer stations.”

As part of the train operator’s May timetable changes there will be a number of new services to provide new connection opportunities and more frequent services on existing routes.

As well as links between Gainsborough and Sheffield, Northern has also introduced enhanced links between Hull and Scarborough, Newcastle and Carlisle and the first direct service between Leeds and Chester for many years.

The May 2019 enhancements will not only add new journey opportunities, they have also been designed to build on the reliability and stability introduced during the timetable changes in December last year.

Steve added: “We are absolutely committed to providing the best possible rail service for our customers and our new timetables will see the introduction of new routes and strengthened links elsewhere in the region.

“We are working hard to provide a more reliable and punctual service and will deliver more than £600m of investment including 101 new trains that will feature air conditioning, free Wi-Fi and at seat power sockets for customers. By the end of 2019 we will also retire our Pacer trains and will have completed more than £40m improvements at our stations, introducing better lighting, seating, security and new ticket vending machines.”

Highlights of Northern’s timetable enhancements include:

New hourly service between
• Chester and Leeds (via Manchester Victoria)
• Sheffield and Gainsborugh (including weekday services for the first time at Gainsborough Central)

Hourly services between
• Blackpool North and Manchester Airport (via Piccadilly)
• Blackpool North to Hazel Grove (via Piccadilly)
• Preston to Manchester Victoria
• Hull to Scarborough

Other improvements
• Two trains per hour between Newcastle and Carlisle
• Three trains per hour between Harrogate and Leeds
• Faster journeys between Leeds and Lincoln
 

Kite159

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Gainsborough Central is right in the heart of the town

Which it is, compared to Lea Road which is three quarters of a mile+ from the 'town centre' area, and has limited car parking available.

They just need to be extended towards Barnetby next :)
 

VT 390

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Will the new Gainsborough Central service mean that Gainsborough Lea Road's usage will most likely decrease?
 

Esker-pades

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Will the new Gainsborough Central service mean that Gainsborough Lea Road's usage will most likely decrease?
The services seem to start quite late (08:16 is the first departure) and end quite early (19:12 being the last). So, any AM peak passengers into Sheffield won't benefit. Nobody going to/from Lincoln will change either. I'm not sure that there will be much of a difference.
 

Kite159

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Surely Cleethorpes would get more passengers from Grimsby in particular.

Purely as a crayonist, timetable it so the Northern service from Sheffield gives a reasonable connection to either the hourly TPE or the future hourly EMR Cleethorpes service. Not ideal but better than the current 3 trains a week
 

Jorge Da Silva

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Purely as a crayonist, timetable it so the Northern service from Sheffield gives a reasonable connection to either the hourly TPE or the future hourly EMR Cleethorpes service. Not ideal but better than the current 3 trains a week

Cleethorpes I think would work better as people could then go from Grimsby Town to Gainsborough, and it provides a second service to Sheffield.
 

Glenn1969

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Extension would also bring regular service back to Kirton Lindsey and Brigg. Is there anything preventing it happening?
 

Bovverboy

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Regarding "No Sunday Service", is/will that still be the case with Trafford Park, Humphrey Park, Chassen Road, and Flixton?

I seem to remember it being Monday to Saturday service in the Great Britain Passenger Railway timetable book back in 1989/90 or thereabouts.

Flixton (2017/8 estimated patronage 132,528) has had a Sunday service since May 2018 - all the Oxford Road stoppers call (I think) on a Sunday, on other days it's every other one, i.e. one an hour each way.
Trafford Park (estimated patronage 54,870), Humphrey Park (34,866), Chassen Road (49,210), Glazebrook (45,432), Padgate (155,582), Sankey for Penketh (171,648), and Edge Hill (209,808) still have no Sunday service and are not scheduled to get one in the next timetable.

Edge Hill is no doubt a special case, being a predominantly alighting (AM) station with probably limited potential Sunday patronage.

West Allerton (101,296) seems to do best relative to patronage, with a 1 tph Sunday service and 2 tph on other days.

As you'll see, some stations do much better than others.
 

tbtc

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The cascaded units aren't making much of an impact going by the current levels of shortforming!! Although it does look like some of the extra services are being run by using units which currently sit idle between the peaks (such as extending the York-Preston to Blackpool) but this could put further pressure on already stretched diesel fleet

So we've got insufficient DMUs, insufficient staff, too many short-formed trains and too many conflicting movements to ensure a reliable timetable...

...and the answer is to use the additional trains (from cascades and from electrification) to run even more short trains...

...it's like a sit-com/drama character who keeps finding ways out of their problems but instead self-sabotages to make things worse because they lack the will to make the simple change that they need to.

"Shall we use the additional DMU resources to run simpler timetables with longer trains? Nah, let's cram seven short trains per hour (with badly timed gaps due to the variety of destinations that they come from) rather than maybe four long trains per hour".


I've mixed feelings here. Whilst I can see the logic in speeding up Lincoln services by having a "local" train taking up the stations west of Worksop (not a massive priority but I can see accept that the current Lincoln service is tediously slow), having the Gainsborough services split between two stations (some distance apart) might cause a few problems as well as solving other.

Plus there's the issue that the forthcoming improvements to Doncaster - Lincoln (going hourly under EMR) will mean two trains per hour from Sheffield/ Retford to Gainsborough and two trains per hour from Gainsborough to Lincoln but (although the Sheffield - Central and Lee Road - Lincoln services share the same metals west of Gainsborough, they won't share any station.

(also, if any resources are found for regular services through Brigg to Grimsby etc at a time when plenty of other Northern services are regularly cancelled/ short-formed/ inadequately short then I reserve the right to scream about prioritising luxury services over essential bread'n'butter work!)
 

158756

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So we've got insufficient DMUs, insufficient staff, too many short-formed trains and too many conflicting movements to ensure a reliable timetable...

...and the answer is to use the additional trains (from cascades and from electrification) to run even more short trains...

...it's like a sit-com/drama character who keeps finding ways out of their problems but instead self-sabotages to make things worse because they lack the will to make the simple change that they need to.

"Shall we use the additional DMU resources to run simpler timetables with longer trains? Nah, let's cram seven short trains per hour (with badly timed gaps due to the variety of destinations that they come from) rather than maybe four long trains per hour".

They're between a rock and a hard place though. They've committed to addressing the poor frequencies of services in the north and are filling their pockets with billions of pounds of taxpayers money on the promise of these better services. Improvements are continually delayed, local politicians are clamouring for heads to roll. Time has run out - the excuses aren't good enough any more. It's no one's fault but their own if they don't have enough trains or drivers. The improvements must happen. If Northern fail to deliver they must be stripped of the franchise and it be given to a public sector body who will actually deliver.
 

HullRailMan

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They're between a rock and a hard place though. They've committed to addressing the poor frequencies of services in the north and are filling their pockets with billions of pounds of taxpayers money on the promise of these better services. Improvements are continually delayed, local politicians are clamouring for heads to roll. Time has run out - the excuses aren't good enough any more. It's no one's fault but their own if they don't have enough trains or drivers. The improvements must happen. If Northern fail to deliver they must be stripped of the franchise and it be given to a public sector body who will actually deliver.
How many billions of pounds have gone into anyone’s pocket exactly? What evidence do you have that a public sector body would have delivered any more in these circumstances?
 

PR1Berske

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They're between a rock and a hard place though. They've committed to addressing the poor frequencies of services in the north and are filling their pockets with billions of pounds of taxpayers money on the promise of these better services. Improvements are continually delayed, local politicians are clamouring for heads to roll. Time has run out - the excuses aren't good enough any more. It's no one's fault but their own if they don't have enough trains or drivers. The improvements must happen. If Northern fail to deliver they must be stripped of the franchise and it be given to a public sector body who will actually deliver.
But we all know that handing over Northern to the DfT, a lot of the same issues will still exist.
 
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