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Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

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sqrtc

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I'm not disputing the signalling but it's a goods line according to the sectional appendix.

I've often wondered why that's not the preferred diversionary route, would mean Stirling isn't left out. Assuming Perth would be a long blockade, it may be sensible to evaluate that surely?
 
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alangla

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The SRPS run tours over it every year as well. After the mountains that were climbed to make the Queen Street blockade happen, this would be a (relative) walk in the park.
 

Class 170101

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Alloa - Kinkardine is freight only, so that means finding paths across the Forth Bridge, last I heard they were in short supply.

I was assuming it would be via the Forth Bridge. Scotrail use the Forth Bridge as the diversionary route on Saturdays (and Sundays) when the Stirling route is closed.

As far the Alloa route is concerned do Scotrail sign beyond Alloa? I would be surprised if they did.
 

AMD

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Also there's the small matter of speed (& time), the whole route from Alloa to Charlestown Jct has a 30/35 mph limit - that's nine miles of not going very fast.
 

InOban

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And it's all single track, isn't it?
As class170101 says, 'via Fife' means the Dalmeny Chord and the Forth Bridge.
 

route101

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Also there's the small matter of speed (& time), the whole route from Alloa to Charlestown Jct has a 30/35 mph limit - that's nine miles of not going very fast.
Any trains go on that line?
 

route:oxford

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It was used for coal trains supplying the (now closed) Longannet Power Station. Now used by SRPS steam specials doing the "Forth Circle". Others will know if anything else uses the line.

It was indeed, following an £85M rebuild leading up to the reopening of the route in 2008.
I believe there's also been around £20M worth of "fixes" to some of the shoddier building standards of Clackmannanshire Council and Edinburgh Council contracting team TIE who initially ran the rebuild contract.
 

Glenmutchkin

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Now used by SRPS steam specials doing the "Forth Circle".

Next set of trips is due on 19th May.

http://www.srps.org.uk/railtours/rt-190519.htm

".......Each train continues through Dunfermline and along the coast through Culross and Kincardine then over line through Clackmannan and Alloa to Stirling with views of the Ochil Hills and the Wallace Monument. If time permits there will be a short stop for photographs at Stirling, then the train continues through Falkirk to complete the Forth Circle...."
 

13h202

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Electrification of the Borders Railway was specifically mentioned by Alex Hynes at his meeting with passengers in Galashiels earlier this week. Although a bit of a wishy washy statement, perhaps it will be electrified sooner than expected?

"Mr Hynes also confirmed that, going forward, ScotRail might look at electrification of the line."
Read more here
 

47271

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Electrification of the Borders Railway was specifically mentioned by Alex Hynes at his meeting with passengers in Galashiels earlier this week. Although a bit of a wishy washy statement, perhaps it will be electrified sooner than expected?
I agree that it's very wishy washy. The whole quote says:
Mr Hynes also confirmed that, going forward, ScotRail might look at electrification of the line and reiterated his support for the proposed extension of the line to Carlisle.
which suggests that he thinks that electrification is about as likely as extension to Carlisle. Or that they'd need to extend to Carlisle before they might look at electrification. None of which seems terribly likely any time soon.

Off topic but this point nearly made me choke on my tea:
However, it’s the introduction of high-speed trains on the £353m line in coming months that Mr Hynes has pinned his hopes on for improved reliability.
Before we get too excited, the 'high-speed trains' are Class 170s, who'd have thought it, and their superior performance will allow more stops at Stow. Now, I've got a lot of experience of both 158 and 170 performance on the Highland Main Line and I wouldn't be pinning too many hopes of timetable enhancements based on the use of one over the other on a hilly route!
 

13h202

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which suggests that he thinks that electrification is about as likely as extension to Carlisle. Or that they'd need to extend to Carlisle before they might look at electrification. None of which seems terribly likely any time soon.
As far as I can remember this is the first time that electrification of the line has been 'officially' mentioned by someone high-up in the transport rankings. This to me seems like a hint that it is something they are seriously considering. Extension to Carlisle or Hawick has always been a tack-on to the end of any talk of improving transport in the region and something that, like you, I don't see happening in the near future.

The Borders Transport Study that came out a few months ago had a few options for the railway including improving the existing line, extending to Berwick or extending to Hawick. Of those three, it is almost certain that improving the existing line will come out on top which would probably involve electrification and more double tracking. So I read that comment as a hint of what's to come rather than a pipe dream like extension of the line.

Off topic but this point nearly made me choke on my tea
I had to read it again as well, shoddy journalism or a bit of confusion as to what Alex was saying about rolling stock deliveries. They also seemed to refer to the 170s as new throughout the article!
 

edwin_m

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Before we get too excited, the 'high-speed trains' are Class 170s, who'd have thought it, and their superior performance will allow more stops at Stow. Now, I've got a lot of experience of both 158 and 170 performance on the Highland Main Line and I wouldn't be pinning too many hopes of timetable enhancements based on the use of one over the other on a hilly route!
As far as I can tell the timings for 158s and 170s are practically indistinguishable except on routes where the 170 can exceed the 90mph maximum of the 158. Are there any 100mph sections on Borders?

The other factors is the wider and quicker-acting doors on 170s which may allow some shortening of dwell times, particularly at somewhere like Stow where the number of passengers is likely to be low enough that most of the dwell time is taken up by the doors opening and closing.
 
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They will be new to the line.

170s have provided the Sunday service since the line opened in 2015 and have become increasingly common on other services.

As far as I can tell the timings for 158s and 170s are practically indistinguishable except on routes where the 170 can exceed the 90mph maximum of the 158. Are there any 100mph sections on Borders?

Fastest section is 90 mph for about a mile in the down direction just south of Heriot. As this is uphill, and follows a 60mph restriction, neither the 158s or 170s get much past 70mph before Falahill summit, where they have to 'slow' to 65 mph.
 
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Does anyone know where I could find a circa 2013 Scotrail Edinburgh > Glasgow timetable, I've had a good look online and can't see anything. Would be interesting to compare journey times (and also Edinburgh > Dunblane circa 2009).
 

deltic08

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Electrification of the Borders Railway was specifically mentioned by Alex Hynes at his meeting with passengers in Galashiels earlier this week. Although a bit of a wishy washy statement, perhaps it will be electrified sooner than expected?
There is no other infrastructure needed as electrification clearance was done at the outset. It would just be straight simple electrification being fed from Millerhill Yard and isolation/neutral section so saves on a feeder station. The cheapest 30 miles, some 18 miles single track, of electrification in Scotland and almost shovel ready?
If the line was closed with rail replacement buses like Preston-Blackpool, it could be wired and energised in 4 months.
 
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Ginaro

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Just by electrifying the line and not extending the double track (though of course doing both is preferable), could any more services be timetabled?
 

Fougasse

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Given the experience of the electrification teams I'd challenge them to do it in three.
Unfortunately, most of those electrification teams have been broken up, the personnel dispersed or departed from the industry, and the plant laid up or sold off.
 

najaB

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Unfortunately, most of those electrification teams have been broken up, the personnel dispersed or departed from the industry, and the plant laid up or sold off.
Wow, that was fast given that they only turned Shotts on about three weeks ago.
 
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