Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[chubs]

Disappointing if they do keep some 90's and mk3's as we deserve better than that tired old junk.

Surely not too late to order a couple more FLIRTs if needed?

 

[Greg Read]

Disappointing if they do keep some 90's and mk3's as we deserve better than that tired old junk.

Surely not too late to order a couple more FLIRTs if needed?

Whereas you may not like the Class90/Mk3 sets, many do, including those commuters that use them everyday, as someone said, newer is not always better !

 

[Owen]

Can’t stand them. They rattle and make a lot of noise.

This is 2019. The people of East Anglia deserve new, modern trains.

 

[jspillman]

Whereas you may not like the Class90/Mk3 sets, many do, including those commuters that use them everyday, as someone said, newer is not always better !

Yes exactly lots of people do like them!! Including the drivers I've spoken to of which 100% of them are against the new trains!
The good old "they don't build them like they used to" comes into use here. You won't get a more solid comfy good all round train compared to the GA class 90 MK3 sets.
However that is just my opinion on this.

 

[trebor79]

Sorry for the typo yesterday. Good to hear the first 745/0 is arriving soon.
I won't hold my breath for the first chance to ride a 755 being any time soon, but would love to be proved wrong.

 

[Railperf]

Sorry for the typo yesterday. Good to hear the first 745/0 is arriving soon.
I won't hold my breath for the first chance to ride a 755 being any time soon, but would love to be proved wrong.

If the Norwegian FLIRT units that i travelled on are anything to go by, then the 745/ 755s will be a good train to travel on. A lot will depend on the interior specified by Abellio!!

 

[47421]

Disappointing if they do keep some 90's and mk3's as we deserve better than that tired old junk.

Surely not too late to order a couple more FLIRTs if needed?

Remember the new train orders are based on a timetable recast which may or may not happen. All committed changes due May 2019 - Camb-Norwich extended to Stansted Apt all day, LivSt-Ipswich semifast extended to Norwich all day, extra TPH off peak LivSt-Southend V and LivSt- Hertford East and Norwich in 90 - have been missed other than Norwich in 90. In latest Modern Railways a GA bod's letter says recast earliest Dec 2020, but who knows what will actually be delivered, no draft timetables have ever been made public. One commitment which I think has been abandoned is Ipswich to Peterborough going hourly, as too may level crossings or something. That is a permanent reduction in bimode diagrams of at least 2.

 

[LAX54]

Think the Nin90's are diagrammed for a Class90/Mk3 set from May.

 

[jspillman]

Think the Nin90's are diagrammed for a Class90/Mk3 set from May.

Oh that's good to hear where did you find that out?
Is there a until date...?

 

[dk1]

Oh that's good to hear where did you find that out?
Is there a until date...?

Will be any of the pool of 90s on a load 8 IC set (no catering vehicke).

 

[Bringback309s]

Think the Nin90's are diagrammed for a Class90/Mk3 set from May.

Someone needs to update RTT then - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G08268/2019/05/20/advanced

 

[chubs]

Whereas you may not like the Class90/Mk3 sets, many do, including those commuters that use them everyday, as someone said, newer is not always better !

Conversely I know loads of commuters who are fed up of the draughty, rattly rust buckets and cant wait to see the back of them..

Whereas you as an enthusiast want them to go on forever, the rest of us want a modern railway not run with museum relics.

 

[chubs]

Will be any of the pool of 90s on a load 8 IC set (no catering vehicke).

If they're using a 90 and mk3 why not include catering vehicle? I thought there were enough for every set?

 

[RailWonderer]

The world is changing, time is moving on and passengers, drivers and ToCs have to move on with the times, like it or not. We can’t have slam door stock that is highly unreliable in 2019 rolling up and down the GEML. It is unacceptable. Nostalgics can go to a museum railway but it is time to say goodbye. You can’t cling to the past forever. You’ve had nearly 40 years to enjoy them.

 

[dk1]

If they're using a 90 and mk3 why not include catering vehicle? I thought there were enough for every set?

All down to weight. This is an additional scratch set being put together. We struggle now with buffets & currently have a trolley set running about. Drivers have been asked which 90s they find better than others so hopefully these can be allocated to those diagrams.

 

[jspillman]

All down to weight. This is an additional scratch set being put together. We struggle now with buffets & currently have a trolley set running about. Drivers have been asked which 90s they find better than others so hopefully these can be allocated to those diagrams.

Interesting that... I found when chatting to a driver the other day that 90008 and 90005 are the quickest.

 

[Railperf]

Interesting that... I found when chatting to a driver the other day that 90008 and 90005 are the quickest.

There is an old saying related to me by a retired railwayman ...a poorly performing locomotive in the hands of a good driver is much better than a strongly performing loco in the hands of a bad driver !!

 

[Railperf]

The Mark 3 coaches - when looked after and refreshed with a passenger friendly interior offer a ride and comfort second to none. Chiltern's Mk 3's are an example of how to create a great passenger environment. I experienced LNERs standard and first class offerings at the weekend and i have to say i was very happy with the offering..even if the HST performance-wise is a bit slow compared to Class 800s.
The Class 90s now seem to be performing as well as they ever have. My only issue is how badly they suffer wheelslip in wet or damp conditions. And the whole bumping and snatching issue - when the train has to accelerate or brake - does detract from the very good ride and excellent sound insulation.
I would have liked to see a more modern setup with a smaller more powerful loco front and rear - similar to the E464 class in Italy! That would have provided acceleration to EMU standards and extra reliability.

As for calling these museum pieces ..when did you last hear anyone suggest that Boeing 747s were now past it and should be sent to the scrap heap??

 

[jspillman]

There is an old saying related to me by a retired railwayman ...a poorly performing locomotive in the hands of a good driver is much better than a strongly performing loco in the hands of a bad driver !!

I like that saying!

 

[jspillman]

The Mark 3 coaches - when looked after and refreshed with a passenger friendly interior offer a ride and comfort second to none. Chiltern's Mk 3's are an example of how to create a great passenger environment. I experienced LNERs standard and first class offerings at the weekend and i have to say i was very happy with the offering..even if the HST performance-wise is a bit slow compared to Class 800s.
The Class 90s now seem to be performing as well as they ever have. My only issue is how badly they suffer wheelslip in wet or damp conditions. And the whole bumping and snatching issue - when the train has to accelerate or brake - does detract from the very good ride and excellent sound insulation.
I would have liked to see a more modern setup with a smaller more powerful loco front and rear - similar to the E464 class in Italy! That would have provided acceleration to EMU standards and extra reliability.

As for calling these museum pieces ..when did you last hear anyone suggest that Boeing 747s were now past it and should be sent to the scrap heap??

Exactly the MK3 coaches are great nothing is gonna ever be able to replace them with their comfort and solid build.

The class 90 is my number one favourite loco so it doesn't bother me in the slightest if the wheels spin and the fact that they can be a bit jerky especially when pushing!

 

[Alfie1014]

The Mark 3 coaches - when looked after and refreshed with a passenger friendly interior offer a ride and comfort second to none. Chiltern's Mk 3's are an example of how to create a great passenger environment. I experienced LNERs standard and first class offerings at the weekend and i have to say i was very happy with the offering..even if the HST performance-wise is a bit slow compared to Class 800s.
The Class 90s now seem to be performing as well as they ever have. My only issue is how badly they suffer wheelslip in wet or damp conditions. And the whole bumping and snatching issue - when the train has to accelerate or brake - does detract from the very good ride and excellent sound insulation.
I would have liked to see a more modern setup with a smaller more powerful loco front and rear - similar to the E464 class in Italy! That would have provided acceleration to EMU standards and extra reliability.

As for calling these museum pieces ..when did you last hear anyone suggest that Boeing 747s were now past it and should be sent to the scrap heap??

Well yes and no. The MkIIIs are well liked by some but they are showing their age, can be draughty and cold in the winter and if the air-con is not working stuffy in the summer. Availability has been poor for some time, not surprising with vehicles 40+ years old; today the 16:00 down is 7 vice 9 and was full and standing from Liv St and the 16:30 down was shown as 8 vice 9 no reservations, catering etc.. which is normal wording for substitution by 321s. Oh and the 16:00 up and 18:30 down are cancelled due to train failure. A multiple unit replacement will have much better acceleration and braking characteristics, though as many have said 9 out of 10 is going to be very tight even with faster journey times and shorter turn rounds.

Well the 747s have pretty much reached their final life too, virtually none have been built recently, (the 747-8s have had few customers as pax craft, though some cargo orders) and most legacy airlines such as BA and VA are phasing them out for more efficient craft.

 

[grumblingalong]

Take it from someone that spends ten hours a day on the Mk3 sets, they've had it, they're tired well beyond a refurb and would need a full rebuild to last any more than 5 years in frontline service.

The new trains are overdue and will be very welcome for the vast majority of people who only care that "a train" shows up on time, in good nick.

 

[Railperf]

Well yes and no. The MkIIIs are well liked by some but they are showing their age, can be draughty and cold in the winter and if the air-con is not working stuffy in the summer. Availability has been poor for some time, not surprising with vehicles 40+ years old; today the 16:00 down is 7 vice 9 and was full and standing from Liv St and the 16:30 down was shown as 8 vice 9 no reservations, catering etc.. which is normal wording for substitution by 321s. Oh and the 16:00 up and 18:30 down are cancelled due to train failure. A multiple unit replacement will have much better acceleration and braking characteristics, though as many have said 9 out of 10 is going to be very tight even with faster journey times and shorter turn rounds.

The Anglia MK3's are showing their age - because they have not had the many spent on them to improve some of the issues you mention. And now that they are to be imminently replaced by Class 745's are not going to have any more money thrown at them either unnecessarily.
Chiltern and Scotrail refurbished MK3's are proof of what can be achieved when you invest into the product and bring it into the 21st century. I have not heard a single person criticise the passenger environment on those trains.
As for acceleration, this is down to the loco, and it has been said many times - that an ideal scenario would have been to order some new loco's -possibly based on Bombardier's TRAXX design - that could have provided a better performance. The 90's - love them or hate them - were not the best design, and fall way short of many continental electric locomotive designs in terms of performance. The French BB 26000's were a far superior design!! Even the older 'nez caisses' were very strong performers such as the Bb15000s. The German Class 103's also another fantastic performer in their time.
But maybe the purchase and running costs were too high - in comparison with buying new multiple units.

 

[trebor79]

The extension of this logic, of course, is to not run the service at all.

I wonder if the franchise agreement says anything about minimum capacity to be provided on each service, and whether they are currently complying with that?

Availability has been poor for some time, not surprising with vehicles 40+ years old; today the 16:00 down is 7 vice 9 and was full and standing from Liv St

A bit daft to put the set that is 2 coaches short on the diagram than includes one of the busiest trains of the day. The 1600 is usually packed, being the last train before 1900 that a saver is valid on.

 

[trebor79]

The Anglia Mk3s are more than due either a comprehensive refurbishment or replacement.
The TOC offered replacement as part of their franchise bid so that is what's happening. No point arguing about it on here.
I'm ambivalent about either option, it'll be interesting to compare the 745 when it's introduced.

 

[dk1]

Interesting that... I found when chatting to a driver the other day that 90008 and 90005 are the quickest.

Neither can touch 90001 'Tin Rocket' in my opinion.

 

[chubs]

T
As for calling these museum pieces ..when did you last hear anyone suggest that Boeing 747s were now past it and should be sent to the scrap heap??

Loads of 747's are scrapped or stored awaiting scrapping, very few if any 100/200/300 are in any kind of regular service anywhere in the world and they haven't been for many years. Many 400's are also now stored and airlines are retiring them as like the mk3's they have done their time and are now life expired and even with a refresh cannot provide an experience that passengers want. I avoid BA and some KLM flights due to their ancient 747's and my experiences on them were 20 years ago! Maybe they could give them a refurbishment but the fact is brand new models are superior in every way.

You cannot polish a turd, the mk3's are done. Even the comprehensively refurbished ones only have a finite life left and will be razor blades in 10 years.

 

[chubs]

Exactly the MK3 coaches are great nothing is gonna ever be able to replace them with their comfort and solid build.

The class 90 is my number one favourite loco so it doesn't bother me in the slightest if the wheels spin and the fact that they can be a bit jerky especially when pushing!

You haven't even travelled on the FLIRT's, so you cant say that as a fact just yet!

There's already lots of much better trains than the life expired mk3's on the rails in the UK.

Commuters and occasional travellers want and deserve a much better experience than they get now. It's only enthusiasts defending the ancient stock.

 

[jspillman]

Neither can touch 90001 'Tin Rocket' in my opinion.

Haha! Do you drive the 90's then?

 

[dk1]

Haha! Do you drive the 90's then?

Oh yes. Not bad old girls on the whole. Looking forward to the new stuff though. I'm not that much of a sentimentalist.