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Am I cut out to be a Trainee Train Driver? Quickfire questions before researching career.

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broadgage

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11 Aug 2012
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Somerset
This is definitely a wind up. Only been a member since yesterday and wrote that as a first post?...

Good on you all for replying honestly to all of that....but I fear you have wasted your time.

I consider it POSSIBLE that the post was written by a computer program.
A lot of research is being directed towards developing computer programs that can think.
Google the "Turing Test" for more details.

If the post WAS written by a computer program, then it has, to an extent, passed the Turing test since a number of respected members have replied whilst presumably believing that they were responding to a human.

This is not the same as spam since the aim is research rather than trying to sell something.
 

Bridger

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Joined
18 Jul 2018
Messages
76
- Crossing a picket line where seasoned drivers "might" sneer at me for doing their job on the cheap
Why on earth would you even consider crossing the picket line of your own grade? Do you not understand what unions do with terms & conditions and pay, let alone the countless other jobs they do.

This industry is NOT for you.
 
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whoosh

Established Member
Joined
3 Sep 2008
Messages
1,361
In recent months to a year my co workers in various bit jobs have said I'd make a great train driver.

That's great. What do they know about the job to form that opinion?


- Crossing a picket line where seasoned drivers "might" sneer at me for doing their job on the cheap (which ties into my last point)

After democratically having a vote amongst yourselves to go on strike or not, with the majority voting to strike, what makes you think you would be sneered at for then going on to ignore this democracy and do what you want to do?

What makes you think that if the strike is successful and terms and conditions not eroded, for example, that you'd be sneered at by the other drivers who sacrificed their pay during the strike when you didn't, yet you still benefit from their efforts?

Equally, if the strike is unsuccessful, what makes you think you'd be sneered at when you were undermining the efforts of everyone else to try and benefit you all?

- I'm not a team player. prefer to work alone. Ok the cabin means I might be doing just that, but the job description says "team people skills". That's not me sorry.

So you don't want to work as a team with with the Signaller, Fleet Maintenance, the Service Delivery Centre, and Platform Dispatch Staff then? You don't want to work as a team with a Guard?

You don't want to work as a team with your classroom Trainer or Driver Instructor together to get you to a good enough standard to do the job properly then?

Do you know what? Leave it. Leave it to someone without the maverick selfish attitude to have a go instead, and don't waste everyone's time. Including yours.
 

Dieseldriver

Member
Joined
9 Apr 2012
Messages
971
In recent months to a year my co workers in various bit jobs have said I'd make a great train driver. But I have a few niggling questions before I spend a few hours combing already posted threads here.

The reasoning is
- I like the aesthetic and functioning of trains and have a passing interest in new types of trains as public transport. I seemed to know what that the STADLER Flirt trains or Class 345 were in trade journals 12 months before some Abelio staff were even aware of such proposals.
- Trains are a preferred method of transport getting to London and Heathrow and I've used the Norwich to Liverpool Street line multiple times its not even a chore.
- I can do long car journeys without breaks or breaking a sweat or getting agitated like some people.
- Watched various Transport for London documentary videos on how Train Drivers operate (their cabins).

What put's me off applying for Abelio jobs 2019
- Anxiety about being ripped off or short changed on annual Salary.
- Crossing a picket line where seasoned drivers "might" sneer at me for doing their job on the cheap (which ties into my last point)
- I'm not a team player and don't like workplace drama or gossip. I prefer to work alone. Ok the cabin means I might be doing just that, but the job description says "team people skills". That's not me sorry.
- Abelio Anglia claims to hire "nice people". But looking at some staff in uniform, local faces whom I know their history, I'd beg to differ! Very bullish sounding banter on the platform = cronyism?
- Reading glassdoor relatives that say Greater Anglia's work culture is "it's not what you know it's who you know". With recrutiment selection and work based on nepotism.
- Abelio always advertising jobs and taking, what 18 months, to actually get behind the controls of a c̶l̶a̶s̶s̶ ̶8̶0̶ STADLER Flirt train providing you complete all trials and exams.

Phew. Sorry for being demanding in my first post. But Greater Anglias recrutiment page doesn't tell half the story your forum does.
I think you should go for it.
 

theironroad

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21 Nov 2014
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Why on earth would you even consider crossing the picket line of your own grade? Do you not understand what unions do with terms & conditions and pay, let alone the countless other jobs they do.

This industry is NOT for you.

It's a shame a few in the drivers and guards grades already also don't understand this.
 

Trainguy90

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8 Sep 2016
Messages
109
Location
London
Simple answer
Do you want to be a driver?
If yes:
- research the role (not the operations of an individual company or trivial things)
- Search for a job and read the conditions and job description and see if your still interested
- Apply! Psychometric tests and the judgement of a manager will decide if you fit the criteria
- if successful join a union, sure you could cross a picket, but don’t moan when your conditions start to slip and fellow colleagues give you the cold shoulder

If no:
- carry on with whatever you do now
 

DunfordBridge

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13 Apr 2013
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600
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Scarborough
The OP must be a troll cos I seriously cannot believe anyone genuinely thinks like this.

If you are genuine then no point applying

If you are a troll, go outside and enjoy the fresh air. Why waste your life writing this rubbish?

Seriously embarrassed to be a member on this forum at times like this with some of the faceless vitriol that is expressed on a regular basis. The thread started out as a well-meaning discussion with some frank but valid opinions expressed but soon descended into class room banter. I was actually amazed by the number of posts that appeared in such a short period of time whilst other threads just went into oblivion.

It strikes me that with laws governing discrimination against others on the basis of gender, sexuality, race or religion, etc, some of us now prefer to target people who are different in a way that cannot be easily defined. I can easily imagine that some of the posters were rubbing their hands with glee when they discovered this thread.

The original poster had doubts that he would fit the role and he was just seeking confirmation. Now there has been a suggestion that he might be somewhere on the autistic spectrum, or that his mind is somehow governed by artificial intelligence, running some bizarre kind of computer program. I can imagine that class 80 is feeling real good about himself now. I would not be feeling good myself either if I had told him that his post was a load of rubbish, especially, if there was a reason for him being different that was not obvious.

Indeed. And in my opinion, there's nothing stopping them from making the grade if they follow the correct steps and understand what behaviours are required

Simple answer
Do you want to be a driver?
If yes:
- research the role (not the operations of an individual company or trivial things)
- Search for a job and read the conditions and job description and see if your still interested
- Apply! Psychometric tests and the judgement of a manager will decide if you fit the criteria
- if successful join a union, sure you could cross a picket, but don’t moan when your conditions start to slip and fellow colleagues give you the cold shoulder

If no:
- carry on with whatever you do now

Now these are the kinds of posts I like, devoid of much of the negativity of several of the other posts on this thread.

After having read this thread, I think I shall be content to remain working in an office and doing my bit on a heritage railway on a weekend. It would be good however if some of you would have the nerve to say which railways you work for so I can gauge the company culture at least assuming that some of the more negative posts were made by railway workers.

I am glad that Class 80 has created this thread. Besides gaining more of an insight into the role of train driver. I now know the meaning of the word 'cronyism'. Now that is an idea for a new thread, "To what extent does Cronyism exist in UK Railways today?" I would post it myself but I am not sure I can be bothered to keep the conversation going.
 

imagination

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3 Aug 2010
Messages
485
Quite. This thread has by far the lowest standard of replies I can recall coming across in 8.5 years of browsing this forum. More than a few of the respondents should feel ashamed of themselves.
 

Heaps92

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3 Sep 2018
Messages
129
I will try and tackle some of your points but if you want the highlight it’s basically that I honestly don’t think you’re cut out for this job.

How much you like trains is irrelevant, in fact, showing such an unusual interest in them might paint you as a bit odd. I really couldn’t care less about the new trains I’m getting whenever they eventually come in. I’m a train driver, not a train geek. The longer I am in this job, the more I come to dislike spotters and the like.

Using trains is something everyone does.

The salary is the salary, either take it and stay there (or use them as an in to become a qualified driver and transfer to another TOC), or don’t apply.

Crossing picket lines is never advisable. What other drivers think of you matters a hell of a lot more than people think outside the railway, because ultimately, it’s them and the union who could one day save your career when you mess up. If you’re a “scab”, or come across the way your post comes across, they won’t like you and they won’t back you.

Chatting to other experienced drivers is a great way to learn things, and picking their brains when you don’t know something or the books don’t make sense is a god send. Given my last point, and the fact you apparently don’t like people, they will not be inclined to help you.

The fact you don’t like their banter links back to the point about you liking people. There are some characters in my mess room, no one says you have to engage with them - there are plenty of quiet types also, but more importantly, the quiet ones don’t do what you are doing and look down their nose at those characters. Thinking you’re better than people who have more experience than you (because those staff you look down on have passed the recruitment process and can actually do the job, you might not even get that far) won’t serve you well in this industry.

Becoming a driver is a long process. Everyone knows this.
100% correct I dont think this guy who suit. Dont even think he would get past the sift God only CSN imagine what his cv would look like
 

theironroad

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21 Nov 2014
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Seriously embarrassed to be a member on this forum at times like this with some of the faceless vitriol that is expressed on a regular basis. The thread started out as a well-meaning discussion with some frank but valid opinions expressed but soon descended into class room banter. I was actually amazed by the number of posts that appeared in such a short period of time whilst other threads just went into oblivion.

It strikes me that with laws governing discrimination against others on the basis of gender, sexuality, race or religion, etc, some of us now prefer to target people who are different in a way that cannot be easily defined. I can easily imagine that some of the posters were rubbing their hands with glee when they discovered this thread.

The original poster had doubts that he would fit the role and he was just seeking confirmation. Now there has been a suggestion that he might be somewhere on the autistic spectrum, or that his mind is somehow governed by artificial intelligence, running some bizarre kind of computer program. I can imagine that class 80 is feeling real good about himself now. I would not be feeling good myself either if I had told him that his post was a load of rubbish, especially, if there was a reason for him being different that was not obvious.





Now these are the kinds of posts I like, devoid of much of the negativity of several of the other posts on this thread.

After having read this thread, I think I shall be content to remain working in an office and doing my bit on a heritage railway on a weekend. It would be good however if some of you would have the nerve to say which railways you work for so I can gauge the company culture at least assuming that some of the more negative posts were made by railway workers.

I am glad that Class 80 has created this thread. Besides gaining more of an insight into the role of train driver. I now know the meaning of the word 'cronyism'. Now that is an idea for a new thread, "To what extent does Cronyism exist in UK Railways today?" I would post it myself but I am not sure I can be bothered to keep the conversation going.

While the big railway isn't perfect, this is the big operational railway trying to run a good service to passengers 24/7/363. It's not a weekend railway trying to recreate the 1950s populated by lawyers and accountants wanting a hobby.

Maybe some of the replies to the op weren't pitch perfect ,but yours and another posters reply are also way OTT tarring the railway with a broad brush.

Over the years on here, I've seen hundreds of individuals been given advice and encouraged in their journey to becoming a train driver, whether that's from trainees, newly qualified drivers or people who have been around a while.

Also, there's an abundance of advice on here for potential applicants for the job and what it involves and how to get it.

From what the op posted, I agree that there are some doubts about their suitability or at least naivety and whether they have done some research about the role on these very forum.

However, your calls for those 'faceless' profiles to identify themselves and their employers is tantamount to a witch hunt which I utterly condemn.
 

sw1ller

Established Member
Joined
4 Jan 2013
Messages
1,567
Hi, welcome to the forum. Lovely isn’t it.

I’ll just answer the question. To be honest, with the information you’ve given, I’d have to agree with the majority here. I think the main mistake you make, and only one person has pointed this out so far, is you’ve jumped over what the thread title asks. You’re thinking about being a train driver rather than a TRAINEE train driver.

I know this is obvious, but you can’t be a train driver without first being a trainee. All of your “for” reasons are pretty much irrelevant and your “against” reasons are quite important (picket lines aside)

I’ll concentrate on the main thing that concerns me.

When training, I think it’s very important to be a team player. Having/giving support to the other trainees, taking advice and criticism, working closely with the same instructor for months on end (can rotate instructors, but not guaranteed) working with the public, work colleagues and other agencies during degraded work or emergencies, is just so important. You can’t have a safety critical environment with no communication (not being a people person would suggest to me you will avoid communication as much as possible)

Wether you’re a computer program or not, I think it’s a great question that not enough people ask. It’s normally the shift work that’s the problem so it’s nice to get another debate that’s a bit different.

This being said, I don’t know you, none of us do. Please, do spend time researching the roll, go to your local station and have a watch at all the interaction that goes on and see if it’s something you could do. Go and have a quick word with the train crew (if they look like they’re not busy)

Most people I’ve encountered on the railway are very nice, genuine people and are more than happy to help. You will get the odd one or two that just wants to whine, moan and do as little as possible, but that’s the same in most jobs.

Good luck.
 

EGL1

Member
Joined
15 Feb 2019
Messages
21
Seriously embarrassed to be a member on this forum at times like this with some of the faceless vitriol that is expressed on a regular basis. The thread started out as a well-meaning discussion with some frank but valid opinions expressed but soon descended into class room banter. I was actually amazed by the number of posts that appeared in such a short period of time whilst other threads just went into oblivion.

It strikes me that with laws governing discrimination against others on the basis of gender, sexuality, race or religion, etc, some of us now prefer to target people who are different in a way that cannot be easily defined. I can easily imagine that some of the posters were rubbing their hands with glee when they discovered this thread.

The original poster had doubts that he would fit the role and he was just seeking confirmation. Now there has been a suggestion that he might be somewhere on the autistic spectrum, or that his mind is somehow governed by artificial intelligence, running some bizarre kind of computer program. I can imagine that class 80 is feeling real good about himself now. I would not be feeling good myself either if I had told him that his post was a load of rubbish, especially, if there was a reason for him being different that was not obvious.





Now these are the kinds of posts I like, devoid of much of the negativity of several of the other posts on this thread.

After having read this thread, I think I shall be content to remain working in an office and doing my bit on a heritage railway on a weekend. It would be good however if some of you would have the nerve to say which railways you work for so I can gauge the company culture at least assuming that some of the more negative posts were made by railway workers.

I am glad that Class 80 has created this thread. Besides gaining more of an insight into the role of train driver. I now know the meaning of the word 'cronyism'. Now that is an idea for a new thread, "To what extent does Cronyism exist in UK Railways today?" I would post it myself but I am not sure I can be bothered to keep the conversation going.



Hear, hear
 

EssexGonzo

Member
Joined
9 May 2012
Messages
636
That's great. What do they know about the job to form that opinion?




After democratically having a vote amongst yourselves to go on strike or not, with the majority voting to strike, what makes you think you would be sneered at for then going on to ignore this democracy and do what you want to do?

What makes you think that if the strike is successful and terms and conditions not eroded, for example, that you'd be sneered at by the other drivers who sacrificed their pay during the strike when you didn't, yet you still benefit from their efforts?

Equally, if the strike is unsuccessful, what makes you think you'd be sneered at when you were undermining the efforts of everyone else to try and benefit you all?



So you don't want to work as a team with with the Signaller, Fleet Maintenance, the Service Delivery Centre, and Platform Dispatch Staff then? You don't want to work as a team with a Guard?

You don't want to work as a team with your classroom Trainer or Driver Instructor together to get you to a good enough standard to do the job properly then?

Do you know what? Leave it. Leave it to someone without the maverick selfish attitude to have a go instead, and don't waste everyone's time. Including yours.

Wow. Angry man/boy/girl. Union dictator. Nice and inclusive. Come and join our industry.

Which prompts me to entirely agree with the post below. If the OP was seriously considering a railway career, they sure as hell won't be after some of the offensive posts here.

Seriously embarrassed to be a member on this forum at times like this with some of the faceless vitriol that is expressed on a regular basis. The thread started out as a well-meaning discussion with some frank but valid opinions expressed but soon descended into class room banter. I was actually amazed by the number of posts that appeared in such a short period of time whilst other threads just went into oblivion.

It strikes me that with laws governing discrimination against others on the basis of gender, sexuality, race or religion, etc, some of us now prefer to target people who are different in a way that cannot be easily defined. I can easily imagine that some of the posters were rubbing their hands with glee when they discovered this thread.

The original poster had doubts that he would fit the role and he was just seeking confirmation. Now there has been a suggestion that he might be somewhere on the autistic spectrum, or that his mind is somehow governed by artificial intelligence, running some bizarre kind of computer program. I can imagine that class 80 is feeling real good about himself now. I would not be feeling good myself either if I had told him that his post was a load of rubbish, especially, if there was a reason for him being different that was not obvious.





Now these are the kinds of posts I like, devoid of much of the negativity of several of the other posts on this thread.

After having read this thread, I think I shall be content to remain working in an office and doing my bit on a heritage railway on a weekend. It would be good however if some of you would have the nerve to say which railways you work for so I can gauge the company culture at least assuming that some of the more negative posts were made by railway workers.

I am glad that Class 80 has created this thread. Besides gaining more of an insight into the role of train driver. I now know the meaning of the word 'cronyism'. Now that is an idea for a new thread, "To what extent does Cronyism exist in UK Railways today?" I would post it myself but I am not sure I can be bothered to keep the conversation going.
 

Islineclear3_1

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PTSO or platform depending on the weather
- I'm not a team player and don't like workplace drama or gossip. I prefer to work alone. Ok the cabin means I might be doing just that, but the job description says "team people skills". That's not me sorry.

- Abelio Anglia claims to hire "nice people". But looking at some staff in uniform, local faces whom I know their history, I'd beg to differ! Very bullish sounding banter on the platform = cronyism?
- Reading glassdoor relatives that say Greater Anglia's work culture is "it's not what you know it's who you know". With recrutiment selection and work based on nepotism.

-

Class80 states that he's not a team player. How would he/she manage/cope conversing with guards, passengers, signallers, Control, emergency services (and any others) especially when under pressure (as others have said)? And how about messroom banter?

Class80 appears to have some negative views/opinions on Abellio. I hope for his sake that there are no Abellio people on here in recruitment; he makes a booboo in his application/interview and his identity is revealed. One must never, ever "bad mouth" a (potential) employer - especially on a public forum

He hasn't posted since Friday, perhaps he would care to comment?
 

whhistle

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Messages
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Reading some of the posts does make me sad though and only reinforces the stereotype view of the Train Driver:

"Join us, or we'll bully you."

There's plenty of things in life that I don't like or support, but accept others do.
A Union is a choice at the end of the day and if someone doesn't want to join that Union, why is there a want/lust/need to hate them? May as well hate everyone who doesn't conform to your views.
 

tiptoptaff

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15 Feb 2013
Messages
2,983
Reading some of the posts does make me sad though and only reinforces the stereotype view of the Train Driver:

"Join us, or we'll bully you."

There's plenty of things in life that I don't like or support, but accept others do.
A Union is a choice at the end of the day and if someone doesn't want to join that Union, why is there a want/lust/need to hate them? May as well hate everyone who doesn't conform to your views.
Because isn't some tinpot unionised industry where being in it is worthless. You don't join, you alienate your colleagues instantly. You say "I want to enjoy all the benefits you've fought for, but I don't want to contribute or make the sacrifices myself. And if you do strike to protect my job/pay/pension/benefits, I'll stab you in the back and scab"
It's your local reps who make sure your links are fair and the TPU keep to the agreed diagramming parameters. They ensure your leave is allocated fairly. Being a driver and not being in ASLEF is having cake and eating it. (Or RMT if that's who your depot recognises)
 

Stigy

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6 Nov 2009
Messages
4,881
Reading some of the posts does make me sad though and only reinforces the stereotype view of the Train Driver:

"Join us, or we'll bully you."

There's plenty of things in life that I don't like or support, but accept others do.
A Union is a choice at the end of the day and if someone doesn't want to join that Union, why is there a want/lust/need to hate them? May as well hate everyone who doesn't conform to your views.
I agree with the Union part of the original post to an extent. I’m in a union at the moment, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with action they take, or indeed participate. I pay them, therefore they have a duty to represent me. I don’t however have to be a “brother” and feel duty bound to stand by their every move.
 

tiptoptaff

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2,983
I agree with the Union part of the original post to an extent. I’m in a union at the moment, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with action they take, or indeed participate. I pay them, therefore they have a duty to represent me. I don’t however have to be a “brother” and feel duty bound to stand by their every move.
But would you cross a picket?
 

Stigy

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But would you cross a picket?
I can’t answer that as I’ve never been in that position. However, I certainly would never allow myself to be bullied :)

I suppose fundamentally it depends on whether I agree with the action, rather than just participating because I feel I have to. I don’t want to get in to a mass union debate, but the SWR strikes were a prime example.
 

troublewithid

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25 Nov 2013
Messages
13
Reading some of the posts does make me sad though and only reinforces the stereotype view of the Train Driver:

"Join us, or we'll bully you."

There's plenty of things in life that I don't like or support, but accept others do.
A Union is a choice at the end of the day and if someone doesn't want to join that Union, why is there a want/lust/need to hate them? May as well hate everyone who doesn't conform to your views.
In 15 years as a driver and 30 years in the industry I have never seen or heard of anyone being bullied into joining a union- where is your evidence of that?

I have seen union members sacrifice their salary for the sake of retired colleges, to support other members in financial difficulty and to ensure the safety of the industry.

Concern with your own self interest only is not an admirable trait, even less so when you look down on others prepared to sacrifice for your benefit.
 
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nom de guerre

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774
Class80 states that he's not a team player. How would he/she manage/cope conversing with guards, passengers, signallers, Control, emergency services (and any others) especially when under pressure (as others have said)? And how about messroom banter?

Depends how you define “team player”.

A signalling colleague of mine has mild Aspergers. They don’t enjoy, and actively avoid, the ‘social’ side of ‘team work’ (making small talk, office banter, Christmas party etc) but are fine with purely ‘work’ interactions (eg communicating with Control and drivers, dealing with emergencies) which are generally much more structured and procedural. I would describe them as a ‘team player’ in a professional/formal context, but not a social/informal one (albeit there is a clear reason for this).

I mention this as an example, not a comment on the OP (whose situation I have no knowledge of).
 

whoosh

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1,361
So, the OP comes on here talking about being employed in "bit jobs" lately, then asks about joining one of the most secure well paid jobs, complete with pension, going. Not just a job actually - a career that could very well last the rest of his working lifetime, and one of the first things he comes out with is about crossing a picket line and that other drivers might sneer at him for "doing their job on the cheap". A provocative statement that conveys a knowingness of the undermining it would do - and then he immediately goes on to say he doesn't like workplace drama!!!!

The vast majority of Trainee Drivers I have met, have been truly grateful of the privilege of being in the rôle. Yet here we have someone with a cavalier attitude to rubbing his potential future colleagues up the wrong way - before he's even met them, because that's just how he is - he isn't a team player.

And there are some here who are surprised he hasn't ingratiated himself with those posters who work on the railway.
 

nom de guerre

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Perhaps it would be wise to await further information from the OP before making statements about what is or isn’t “cavalier” or “provocative”.

The OP could be trolling, but there may be other, legitimate reasons for the ‘blunt’ style of their post.
 
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