Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[hacman]

The issue goes above those two, though both seem incapable of turning things around. Lewis in particular is dire at his job; Metro's reputation is as low as it's ever been. People don't trust the service anymore. I know I don't. I drive into Newcastle for leisure because I have no faith the Metro will be running when it's time to come home. I've abandoned Metro for work, even though the Metro is five minutes from my house and my workplace, because it was so often taking me an hour to get the four miles home.

The issue is Nexus/NECA/whatever you want to call them. They are incapable of any forward planning and that's why there are huge holes in the budget. The issues with the trains were foreseeable 15 years ago when they extended to Sunderland without any new rolling stock; instead of getting stuff ordered, they fannied around with the vapid egotrip that was Project Orpheus. But when Nexus has been run for years by the 10w intellect that is Nick Forbes, the man who's trashed the previously well-run (by the LibDems) Newcastle City Council, and is stuffed with 5w Labour yes-men, it ain't much of a surprise. They even managed to screw up the committee meeting that gave us the annual above-inflation fare rises on Metro and the Tyne Tunnel.

Speaking of fares, the rises being dumped on those of us at the coast are disgraceful. Apparently three-zone seasons were "too cheap", for which read "we think coast passengers are sitting ducks who don't have a choice, so we can screw them for every penny". Well the traffic jams in North Tyneside show people are fed up of being treated like cash cows and have, like me, abandoned Metro.

This, this and this again.

So many of the problems we have today are a result of no long term planning, other than the circle-jerk that the Orpheus was. Add to that the fact that political empire building has prevented proper integration with and advertisement of other local rail lines, and this is why we can't have nice things.

Sadly we have also seen much the same with the new rolling stock tender for Metro too, with a chance to redefine what Metro is to the region and to remove some technical limitations completely overlooked.

 

[Paul_10]

Im not one for people to be removed from there jobs as for me, the main issues has been down to lack of investment and how any investment has been spent. I mean when DB regio took over, was Richard McClean any good? He quietly left the scene and Sharon Kelly took over which going by Modernrailways posts was quite incompetant also. Benard Gardner quietly retired and i think thats when Tobyn Hughes took over so for me, you can get rid of Lewis and Hughes but the issues will still be there.

Imo its how the money has been spent thats been the issue, the train refurbishment should be given more funding to do more traction work on them to get them reliable, not just corrosion and interior work seeing as life expired trains will be around for another 10 years after refurbishment so less money should of been spent on station refurbishment and more on getting the most important assest the passengers will know more reliable.

I cant wait how the handling of the new trains will turn out, i be amazed if a new train is delivered by late 2021.

 

[hacman]

Imo its how the money has been spent thats been the issue, the train refurbishment should be given more funding to do more traction work on them to get them reliable, not just corrosion and interior work seeing as life expired trains will be around for another 10 years after refurbishment so less money should of been spent on station refurbishment and more on getting the most important assest the passengers will know more reliable.

I cant wait how the handling of the new trains will turn out, i be amazed if a new train is delivered by late 2021.

Ironically, the traction hardware is one of the more reliable parts of these trains now. Most of the issues that we see day-to-day are to do with everything surrounding that; for example doors, electrical control systems, and so on.

The stations also needed to be worked on equally. Many had issues with things like wiring, and other systems such as fire alarms and the PA hardware were life-expired. When these systems are replaced, you more or less have two options - take all the panels out, stack them all up neatly, hope none get damaged, then re-install, or just overhaul the station while you're at it for not a great deal more. And in either case you have to deal with issues such as asbestos removal!

The situation is quite simple - these trains should have started to be withdrawn in about 2010-2015 based on their original design life, let alone the duty cycle and varying levels of care they have recieved. For this to happen a funding bid needed to go in 3-4 years prior, but it didn't, and when it did finally go in, the country was in the midst of a recession, and also saw a major shift in political power and policy.

 

[cosmo]

4020 and another unit on an interesting run today, never seen units specifically devoted to driver training so was quite surprised when it went by non stop with a specific "Driver Training" destination board!

 

[MetroCar4058]

4020 and another unit on an interesting run today, never seen units specifically devoted to driver training so was quite surprised when it went by non stop with a specific "Driver Training" destination board!

Trains used to just run 'Not in Service' but I think the update to the destination boards has added a few new options

 

[Tetchytyke]

Imo its how the money has been spent thats been the issue, the train refurbishment should be given more funding to do more traction work on them to get them reliable, not just corrosion and interior work

The traction stuff is the only bit that still works! I agree though, the issues run a lot deeper, hopeless as I think Hughes is. I don't think the £350m has been spent badly- the stations needed refurbishing- but it wasn't enough and Nexus weren't astute enough to get what was needed.

In the time Manchester have pretty much doubled the Metrolink network and bought a brand new fleet of trams, Nexus have done precisely nothing. So it's not a Tory thing or a Northern thing, much as the dimwitted Forbes likes to argue otherwise.

These new trains should have been ordered 10 years ago. I still maintain an M5000 tram would do the job perfectly well. Proven technology available off the shelf and Nexus farted around instead.

 

[MetroCar4058]

In the time Manchester have pretty much doubled the Metrolink network and bought a brand new fleet of trams, Nexus have done precisely nothing. So it's not a Tory thing or a Northern thing, much as the dimwitted Forbes likes to argue otherwise.

These new trains should have been ordered 10 years ago. I still maintain an M5000 tram would do the job perfectly well. Proven technology available off the shelf and Nexus farted around instead.

To be fair, you can’t compare Metro to Metrolink. Manchester has a greater level of political capital and Nexus were unwilling to follow the funding model that TfGM have agreed to, which is in essence a loan. Metrolink make a profit which pays off this loan and consequently do not have any government grants. T&W is too poor to agree to such a funding model and you’d be moaning a lot more about your ABC ticket cost as it would probably be around £7 for a day ticket Nexus really can only follow a cap in hand model. This said, I agree that they could’ve made more progress in this area, but you really can’t compare it to Manchester.

M5000s struggle in terms of ride quality at higher speeds and have a much reduced capacity on Metro as current. I’m sure they’re too big for the tunnels also? So I’d have to disagree there.

 

[QANN93]

Does anyone know why a large amount of trains have been withdrawn from service the last few days. No shorts were running to day.what's the fault with them all?

 

[AutoKratz]

The Metro has a number of very specific constraints (e.g tunnel height) which mean that an off-the-shelf replacement vehicle isn’t possible which is partly the reason why they’re still operating the original 80s fleet.

I’m hearing they’ve discovered a problem with the driver’s cabs which is why the additional peak trains aren’t operating while the issues are fixed on certain units.

 

[ModernRailways]

Does anyone know why a large amount of trains have been withdrawn from service the last few days. No shorts were running to day.what's the fault with them all?

Cab windscreens. Not a lot of cars are affected, however car availability is generally quite low currently which isn't helping.

On a side note, the OHLE is still up across the system which is a miracle. We had another train with a faulty pantograph which was snagging the OHLE. Pantograph dropped and returned to the depot. From what I've heard from some of the Nexus Rail staff is that they've been sending out engineers almost daily checking the OHLE for potential issues, and we've also had them checking the pantographs on trains, 2 cars have been withdrawn due to pantograph faults.

These new trains should have been ordered 10 years ago. I still maintain an M5000 tram would do the job perfectly well. Proven technology available off the shelf and Nexus farted around instead.

M5000s would never work on Metro. Their size, design and loadings simply wouldn't work. They would require a significant amount of changes be made before they could be used on the Metro network.

 

[Tetchytyke]

M5000s struggle in terms of ride quality at higher speeds and have a much reduced capacity on Metro as current.

An M5000 seats 66, a Metrocar seats 64. Agreed I'd not considered if they'd fit in the tunnels, but otherwise no different to a Metrocar, which is also just a tram.

Metrolink make a profit which pays off this loan and consequently do not have any government grants. T&W is too poor to agree to such a funding model and you’d be moaning a lot more about your ABC ticket cost as it would probably be around £7 for a day ticket

Maybe, though I'm not convinced by the argument. "Too poor" Nexus did exactly this for TT2. But yes, agreed about fares impacts (TT2 is extortionate and getting worse), even if Metro should be making profit on passenger levels and I'd question the management if they're not.

 

[MetroCar4058]

An M5000 seats 66, a Metrocar seats 64. Agreed I'd not considered if they'd fit in the tunnels, but otherwise no different to a Metrocar, which is also just a tram.

The M5000s and their current design do not meet Metros needs. Here are a few reasons:

• Crash worthiness is not sufficient for Network Rail running
• Smaller units in terms of capacity with a loss of 100 in terms of capacity
• Car body height is very much out of Metros range

This is of course ignoring the issue with traction package, bogies and wheel profiles etc. Its important to note that 1500V DC is not allowed on-street tram sections, so Metro as a tramway ain't happening.

It will however be interesting to see what the new M5000s for TfGM look like; if they are single ~60M cars, they may be a good starting point for Bombardiers bid although I imagine they will follow on from their Movia design.

 

[jkkne]

I see Metro have started updating which of their timetabled peak services won’t be running.

Quite a positive step forward but also fairly damning when you realise how much slack they pick up (tbf mainly from North of the river into the City)

On Huw Lewis...they keep wheeling him out when things go tits up. Maybe it’s my interest in this forum but I’d much rather hear from the Operations Team or the Engineering Team than the Customer Service face.

 

[cosmo]

Unit failure at Gateshead Stadium caused some minor havoc today, was at Pelaw when 4041+4066 led 4043+4078 through Pelaw in convoy. So one of those 2 was the failure.

 

[cosmo]

4041 and 4066 still there, that might be the failed set. Explains why it was so slow through Pelaw, it will have been pushed from behind

 

[jkkne]

4041 and 4066 still there, that might be the failed set. Explains why it was so slow through Pelaw, it will have been pushed from behind

They seemed to get things back on track then another failed train tonight knocks them back.

The twitter account which has been excellent was woeful tonight, they just decided to stop responding.

One thing I’ve noticed is how poor on board announcement and station tannoys are. Completely inaudible

 

[ModernRailways]

4041 and 4066 still there, that might be the failed set. Explains why it was so slow through Pelaw, it will have been pushed from behind

Those are the problem cars and yes it was pushed.

The points at Pelaw where trains from South Shields and South Hylton meet towards Newcastle also failed which heavily affected trains coming from South Shields towards Newcastle.

 

[jkkne]

Looks like 3 timetabled trains plus 2 peaks withdrawn this morning due to driver shortages...

 

[Tetchytyke]

The poor reliability I can almost forgive. But the lack of staff? Absolutely disgusting.

We can blame historical Nexus mismanagement for a lot, but having insufficient drivers should stop with the management. The driver resource issues have been ongoing for well over a year now, yet the greaseball Hughes continues to trouser his obscene salary. It beggars belief.

 

[ModernRailways]

Driver shortages today are due to driver sickness as well as a follow on from yesterday's disruptions.

 

[Scott M]

Impressed with the track renewal work - Gateshead Stadium to Felling, which used to be notoriously bad for swaying side-to-side if sat at the front or back of the train, is now noticeably smoother.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Driver shortages today are due to driver sickness as well as a follow on from yesterday's disruptions.

And Sunday's driver shortages and shambolic RRB arrangements?

The management simply have to go. But, like limpets, they cling to power and Nexus/NECA/whoever don't have the political will or political intellect to do anything about it.

 

[ModernRailways]

And Sunday's driver shortages and shambolic RRB arrangements?

They required more drivers than normal due to the engineering works, so it went out for overtime. One driver agreed to work it on overtime but nobody else came forward.

 

[AutoKratz]

Any news on which of the shortlisted companies have bid to build the new Metro fleet?

 

[ModernRailways]

Any news on which of the shortlisted companies have bid to build the new Metro fleet?

You won't hear anything about that until it's all wrapped up as it's commercially sensitive information and will affect share prices etc.

 

[jkkne]

They required more drivers than normal due to the engineering works, so it went out for overtime. One driver agreed to work it on overtime but nobody else came forward.

If only there was some sort of planning involved...

The compound at Felling doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. I’m guessing this will be supporting tunnel track replacement at Gateshead that nexus have briefly mentioned.

On a side, South Shields Station is coming along very well. Exterior platform looks a bit cheaply done but the whole thing will be a huge improvement on what’s there now. Interesting to see how it handles the GNR queues without King St to use as a queuing system.

 

[Graeme]

The compound at Felling doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. I’m guessing this will be supporting tunnel track replacement at Gateshead that nexus have briefly mentioned.

Yes, there were still two road-railers present at Felling on Tuesday. And then there's the huge swathe of land Stobart Rail plant has been tearing up just next to Pelaw as well - what is that for?

 

[ModernRailways]

If only there was some sort of planning involved...

The compound at Felling doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. I’m guessing this will be supporting tunnel track replacement at Gateshead that nexus have briefly mentioned.

Planning was involved. That's why it was put out for overtime but a large portion of drivers aren't willing to work overtime.

There is always a compound at Felling. The one at Pelaw is temporary.

Yes, there were still two road-railers present at Felling on Tuesday. And then there's the huge swathe of land Stobart Rail plant has been tearing up just next to Pelaw as well - what is that for?

The compound at Pelaw was part of the works over the past few weekends. Felling was for the track/sleepers, Pelaw was for the ballast. Basically creating a production line.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Planning was involved. That's why it was put out for overtime but a large portion of drivers aren't willing to work overtime.

So there wasn't any planning beyond the usual hit-and-hope gormlessness of Teflon Hughes, then. "We've had staffing issues for over a year now because of poor management, including chronic shortages during the World Cup, but maybe this time it'll be different".

It's the same every Sunday with engineering works- it wasn't that many weeks ago Regent Centre-Airport got canned in the same incompetent blind panic- so what makes Tobyn think this time it'll be different?

With stunning intellects like that in charge it's no bloody wonder the system has fallen to bits. I can only assume Hughes has shares in Blueline Taxis

 

[jkkne]

More overhead line woes and the service suspended between Benton and Tynemouth this evening and possibly tomorrow.

Due to the BH, Nexus obviously couldn’t secure a replacement bus service and advised ticket acceptance on local buses and get off at 4LE but then added flame to the fire by admitting as its Bank Holiday most of the buses either aren’t running or finished at 6. When people enquired about taxis Metro replied...you’ll get a refund of your ticket before announcing they couldn’t possibly answer any individual tweets because it’s busy.

I don’t blame nexus for the failure to secure buses and to an extent further OHLE woes but they seem to have absolutely no plan B or attempt at providing any sort of help or advice to passengers during disruption aside posting useless links and refusing to reply. This level of disruption is increasing and will continue to do so, why can’t Nexus handle it?

I look forward to tomorrow’s sad face Huw Lewis in a high vis telling everyone he’s awfully sorry but it’s absolutely not his fault and did you know buses exist?