First Greater Glasgow

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yet reliability, price and safety haven't been in the publics interest of late, the group aren't known for those things either..

Talking industry wide - see first line!

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I’d not be shocked to see new fleet there on the next tranche of vehicles with the e300s cascaded south of the border.

I think keeping the E300s would make more sense than cascading them but many have already gone to FSE and Essex in the short time they’ve been with Glasgow so nothing would really surprise me.

I like the E300s but the E200MMCs have more modern features including the Stopping Announcements. I’ll be really honest I’m not a fan of the smaller wheel based buses as I feel they rattle more and you feel every bump in the road. Also getting rid of double glazing I feel was a mistake.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think keeping the E300s would make more sense than cascading them but many have already gone to FSE and Essex in the short time they’ve been with Glasgow so nothing would really surprise me.

I like the E300s but the E200MMCs have more modern features including the Stopping Announcements. I’ll be really honest I’m not a fan of the smaller wheel based buses as I feel they rattle more and you feel every bump in the road. Also getting rid of double glazing I feel was a mistake.

Again, double glazing is a feature that adds onto fuel consumption. The benefits it brings compared to the cost.... well, you understand why it’s not specified.

Got to take a reasoned view on cascading. Glasgow is getting about 20-25% of all new vehicles into First Group - that means few places are getting new fleet so sending some newish or mid life fleet to ease the pain elsewhere makes sense.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Again, double glazing is a feature that adds onto fuel consumption. The benefits it brings compared to the cost.... well, you understand why it’s not specified.

Got to take a reasoned view on cascading. Glasgow is getting about 20-25% of all new vehicles into First Group - that means few places are getting new fleet so sending some newish or mid life fleet to ease the pain elsewhere makes sense.

Its so much of an expence when you consoder its a major city, the investment is welcome, but does that means that everything that FSE runs to glasgow will needed either replaced or upgraded, like those vehicles on the x36, x37 and B10 from balfron or will they get exemption of some kind because they are only using the city centre rarely?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Its so much of an expence when you consoder its a major city, the investment is welcome, but does that means that everything that FSE runs to glasgow will needed either replaced or upgraded, like those vehicles on the x36, x37 and B10 from balfron or will they get exemption of some kind because they are only using the city centre rarely?

Not exactly certain what you’re saying but if it’s whether operators running in (whether it be First, Stagecoach, McGills or whoever) having to upgrade, then they will probably have to or else incur punitive charges.

As an addendum to my response to jtrainz and cascading, I’d add that the current First approach of only focusing spend on specific OpCos where political pressure or other commitment is greatest is understandable yet saddening. I don’t doubt that there are some deserving cases for new fleet in places like Norwich or Wales but as things stand, it’s going to be pre-enjoyed stuff.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Not exactly certain what you’re saying but if it’s whether operators running in (whether it be First, Stagecoach, McGills or whoever) having to upgrade, then they will probably have to or else incur punitive charges.

As an addendum to my response to jtrainz and cascading, I’d add that the current First approach of only focusing spend on specific OpCos where political pressure or other commitment is greatest is understandable yet saddening. I don’t doubt that there are some deserving cases for new fleet in places like Norwich or Wales but as things stand, it’s going to be pre-enjoyed stuff.

Yeah I never managed my words very well there, the LEZ will apparently have some exemptions for buses or coaches that will come off the M8 > bus station > m8, as they only will use the LEZ zone momentarily, I would wonder if such other services which only use the city centre briefly will have the same benefit, doubt it myself.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Again, double glazing is a feature that adds onto fuel consumption. The benefits it brings compared to the cost.... well, you understand why it’s not specified.

Got to take a reasoned view on cascading. Glasgow is getting about 20-25% of all new vehicles into First Group - that means few places are getting new fleet so sending some newish or mid life fleet to ease the pain elsewhere makes sense.

I think it would make sense for them to try and start cascading out B7RLEs and B7TLs to cities which are not being met by an LEZ deadline. I get they are not brand new and there will be moans and groans but with a little retrim they are still great, sturdy buses which are miles ahead of some of the current fleet still within First Group.

I feel like the replacement of the B7RLEs and B7TLs will be quite a lengthy order as there appears to be a LOT of them. Exciting times ahead in terms of new buses!

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Its so much of an expence when you consoder its a major city, the investment is welcome, but does that means that everything that FSE runs to glasgow will needed either replaced or upgraded, like those vehicles on the x36, x37 and B10 from balfron or will they get exemption of some kind because they are only using the city centre rarely?

I always feel like FSE should have been sold on... Lothian do it way better and there really isn’t much competition. First should focus on Aberdeen and Glasgow.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think it would make sense for them to try and start cascading out B7RLEs and B7TLs to cities which are not being met by an LEZ deadline. I get they are not brand new and there will be moans and groans but with a little retrim they are still great, sturdy buses which are miles ahead of some of the current fleet still within First Group.

I feel like the replacement of the B7RLEs and B7TLs will be quite a lengthy order as there appears to be a LOT of them. Exciting times ahead in terms of new buses!

As I’ve said before, you’re talking about spending considerable sums of money on what are 13-15 year old vehicles - that just won’t be cost effective if they’ve only 3/4 years service.

Also, these other fleets already have a shedload of very pretty mature vehicles so sending them to Essex or Potteries is really compounding problems. The fact is that Glasgow is getting a disproportionate amount of the available spend and selective cascading is something that is required to manage the group fleet profile. Poor old Leicester ain’t getting new fleet for its LEZ such are the challenges with a limited amount of capital!!!

 

[CM]

Here we go again another mis reading. I SAID. retro fit or move in another 400. But hey it's why bother...



Mind you thats over 3 year of course

I didn't misread your post, you just didn't like the reply you got.

You said move in another 400 buses which is unrealistic as First don't have 400 buses to just move around willy nilly.

 

[awsnews]

I wouldn't even mind them buying Class 2 certified Panther LEs for the balloch journeys 1/1A.

Class 2 would let them have standing capacity, a rearward facing wheel chair bay and potentially a fold-out chair ramp! Now that is ambition that First do not have.

Maybe First realise they would simply be too big for the route, getting an E300 around Haldane can be a bit of a challenge without adding a metre or so to the length of the bus.
The current interiors aren't that bad, compared to a McGill's E300 of a similar age they are streets ahead, and unless the weather is nice comparatively few people go end to end. Journeys tend to be Balloch / Helensburgh to Dumbarton, Dumbarton to Clydebank and Clydebank to the city. Nobody commutes from Helensburgh to Glasgow on the bus, it is just not competitive with the train. The few 1Es only really get busy from Dumbarton which deals with the peak flow. I don't see anything wrong with the E200 suggestion, given the LEZ timescale they could even progressively replace the over the next few years.

 

[Scott mac]

Think their will be new e200mmc for the 1 1a 1b done up b9s for the 1c 1d the e300 on the 1 done up and branded for the 7 7a new high e400mmc for the 6 with the e400 from the 6 being done up and put on to the 60/60a no sure about the 5 think that maybe get away with new e200mmc 88/89 done up b9s if their is enough that's just my thoughts

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Think their will be new e200mmc for the 1 1a 1b done up b9s for the 1c 1d the e300 on the 1 done up and branded for the 7 7a new high e400mmc for the 6 with the e400 from the 6 being done up and put on to the 60/60a no sure about the 5 think that maybe get away with new e200mmc 88/89 done up b9s if their is enough that's just my thoughts

Replacing the E300s with E200MMCs on ‘the One’ could push more E300s to Lanarkshire to replace the remaining B10BLE workings and also the B7RLEs which could all be contained within Caledonia. The B9TLs could be refurbished and used to upgrade the 60/60A services. I think having new E200MMCs on the 2, 3 and 9 would allow for the replacement of the B10BLEs, B7Ls and probably some of the E300s to cascade to other subsdaries.

It would be nice for the 6 to get new deckers so that the current E400s could be used throught Caledonia on routes like the 4 and 5 as well as peak workings on the 10/57 etc like they seem to be doing already.

I guess only time will tell!

 

[lastbus]

Replacing the E300s with E200MMCs on ‘the One’ could push more E300s to Lanarkshire to replace the remaining B10BLE workings and also the B7RLEs which could all be contained within Caledonia. The B9TLs could be refurbished and used to upgrade the 60/60A services. I think having new E200MMCs on the 2, 3 and 9 would allow for the replacement of the B10BLEs, B7Ls and probably some of the E300s to cascade to other subsdaries.

It would be nice for the 6 to get new deckers so that the current E400s could be used throught Caledonia on routes like the 4 and 5 as well as peak workings on the 10/57 etc like they seem to be doing already.

I guess only time will tell!

There isn’t any B10s left in Lanarkshire.

 

[overthewater]

I didn't misread your post, you just didn't like the reply you got.

You said move in another 400 buses which is unrealistic as First don't have 400 buses to just move around willy nilly.

Your STILL misread what I wrote.

I make this so simple... 800 buses in First Glasgow fleet, and has three years to reach it goal.

First buy 400 new buses
The other 400 buses either have to be retrofit or move in. or retro fit or move in another 400.

 

[CM]

Your STILL misread what I wrote.

I make this so simple... 800 buses in First Glasgow fleet, and has three years to reach it goal.

First buy 400 new buses
The other 400 buses either have to be retrofit or move in. or retro fit or move in another 400.

No I didn't misread your post. I SAW the bit that says RETROFIT, I am replying to the bit that says MOVE IN, First do not have 400 buses lying around that they can just move around at will!

Perhaps you should try reading things properly for once!

 

[overthewater]

I SAID MOVE IN OR RETRO FIT ITS COMBINED

ANOTHER 400 is retro fitted or moved in

 

[CM]

I SAID MOVE IN OR RETRO FIT ITS COMBINED

ANOTHER 400 is retro fitted or moved in

OR moved in....

If it's combined then you SHOULD have said "retrofit AND moved in".

Wether it's "combined" or not, I can reply to whatever bit I bloody well feel like. First DO NOT have 400 buses to move around at will, how hard is that to understand.

Now back on topic.

 

[SarahDFIG]

just a little heads up. not all vehicles will meet the lez targets as they don't need to if not entering the zone

 

[overthewater]

Why are you gettting snippy for? Last time i check there more than 775 to 800 buses in the glasgow fleet.....

This forum is getting beyound joke.

 

[CM]

Why are you gettting snippy for? Last time i check there more than 775 to 800 buses in the glasgow fleet.....

This forum is getting beyound joke.

You're the one getting snippy!

 

[Stan Drews]

You're the one getting snippy!

Really?
You seem to have a problem with what I considered to be a fairly straightforward comment from otw about needing to retrofit or replace (move in) approx 400 buses. I certainly didn’t have any problem realising that could mean...
...300 retrofits & 100 replacements, or maybe
...200 retrofits & 200 replacements, or
...100 retrofits & 300 replacements, or any other potential combination to reach 400.
Quite why you have become so ‘snippy’ about it, I have no idea!

 

[CM]

Really?
You seem to have a problem with what I considered to be a fairly straightforward comment from otw about needing to retrofit or replace (move in) approx 400 buses. I certainly didn’t have any problem realising that could mean...
...300 retrofits & 100 replacements, or maybe
...200 retrofits & 200 replacements, or
...100 retrofits & 300 replacements, or any other potential combination to reach 400.
Quite why you have become so ‘snippy’ about it, I have no idea!

My post wasn't even directed at you! Learn to read! OTW implied that First could just pull 400 buses out of thin air and send them to Glasgow when it doesn't work like that. Good grief!

 

[Stan Drews]

My post wasn't even directed at you! Learn to read! OTW implied that First could just pull 400 buses out of thin air and send them to Glasgow when it doesn't work like that. Good grief!

I’m not sure you understand how a forum works, if you think a post is only intended to be read by specific members. Anyway, it’s clear that sensible discussion with you is unlikely, if you’re just going to provide the same ‘it’s not me, it’s you’ response to my posts.
However, you might want to consider the possibility that you may just have misinterpreted an earlier post on the thread. I know, shock!, horror!!

Enjoy your day.

 

[Jordan Adam]

My post wasn't even directed at you! Learn to read! OTW implied that First could just pull 400 buses out of thin air and send them to Glasgow when it doesn't work like that. Good grief!

OTW quite clearly said "retro fit or move in another 400 and bob's your uncle, problem solved". Note the "OR". If he had said "and" then it would be slightly different but he didn't, he said "or".

Stan Drews perfectly explained what OTW was quite accurately saying.

 

[CM]

OTW quite clearly said "retro fit or move in another 400 and bob's your uncle, problem solved". Note the "OR". If he had said "and" then it would be slightly different but he didn't, he said "or".

Stan Drews perfectly explained what OTW was quite accurately saying.

I’m not sure you understand how a forum works, if you think a post is only intended to be read by specific members. Anyway, it’s clear that sensible discussion with you is unlikely, if you’re just going to provide the same ‘it’s not me, it’s you’ response to my posts.
However, you might want to consider the possibility that you may just have misinterpreted an earlier post on the thread. I know, shock!, horror!!

Enjoy your day.

Really?
You seem to have a problem with what I considered to be a fairly straightforward comment from otw about needing to retrofit or replace (move in) approx 400 buses. I certainly didn’t have any problem realising that could mean...
...300 retrofits & 100 replacements, or maybe
...200 retrofits & 200 replacements, or
...100 retrofits & 300 replacements, or any other potential combination to reach 400.
Quite why you have become so ‘snippy’ about it, I have no idea!

OTW stated that First could "move in" as in transfer 400 buses to Glasgow which is unrealistic as First do not have 400 buses just lying around. Perhaps if OTW worded his posts better then misunderstandings like this wouldn't happen.

 

[Jordan Adam]

OTW stated that First could "move in" as in transfer 400 buses to Glasgow which is unrealistic as First do not have 400 buses just lying around. Perhaps if OTW worded his posts better then misunderstandings like this wouldn't happen.

He didn't, he said "retro fit or move in another 400 (buses)".

I've quoted the post below so you can read it again.

If anything it will be 75 buses this year which would make 375 - 400 new buses by the start of 2022, retro fit or move in another 400 and bob's your uncle, problem solved.

 

[goldisgood]

OTW stated that First could "move in" as in transfer 400 buses to Glasgow which is unrealistic as First do not have 400 buses just lying around. Perhaps if OTW worded his posts better then misunderstandings like this wouldn't happen.

We've all managed to understand the post perfectly fine, except for you who insists on kicking up a fuss even after it has been explained multiple times by multiple people... If the rest of us can understand the wording, then it's fairly evident that you've misunderstood the post which is worded fine.

 

[CM]

He didn't, he said "retro fit or move in another 400 (buses)".

I've quoted the post below so you can read it again.

I SAW the retro fit part(as I've stated more than once).

I originally replied to the MOVE IN part(again, as I've stated more than once).

Replying to PART of a post is a very normal thing on a forum and there are no rules against it.

I don't see why that's difficult to understand. To me, move in implies a transfer of vehicles, and transferring 400 vehicles seems unrealistic.

Anyway, this argument is getting tiring, why not just move on and get back on topic?

 

[Stan Drews]

I don't see why that's difficult to understand. To me, move in implies a transfer of vehicles, and transferring 400 vehicles seems unrealistic.

I hope you don’t mind me only quoting part of your post.

However, you are right, it isn’t difficult to understand, as a number of members have pointed out.
The only problem is... nobody actually said it!