Manchester - Euston £320 ret??

[yorksrob]

Adds - surely the number of pax who have made an instant decision to travel, have walked to the station and bought the most expensive walk-on ticket (other than businessmen whose companies pay for the ticket) must be absolutely minute; people must surely realise now that even an hour ahead you can make significant savings by going on-line - maybe delay your journey by 20 mins could save £££'s??? But I'm not a railway insider checking tickets!!

Note; when I was in Ibiza and got a call at midnight that my mother had been taken very ill and could I return home (mainly to care for dad who was distraught) I was on to skyscanner and had a choice of three direct flights the following morning, cheapest was £450 and I was home by 2pm - I'd expect to do the same with the railways!! Certainly wouldn't just walk-on for long distance unless I was loaded or had my ticket paid for me!

R.e overpriced walk on fares, if no one uses them (as TOC's like to claim), what's the point in having them so overpriced ?

 

[yorkie]

And I can accept. Businesses and commuters are not a magic money tree to pay for your days out.

Anyone - whether they be businesses or commuters - can use split ticketing websites if they are price concious.

If you are proposing getting rid of market based pricing in a way that isn't detrimental to those who are price concious, feel free to create a thread with your ideas.

 

[yorkie]

R.e overpriced walk on fares, if no one uses them (as TOC's like to claim), what's the point in having them so overpriced ?

The fact is that some businesses are prepared to pay for them and we have market based pricing in this country to maximise the revenue from that demand.

If anyone can come forward with ideas on how to abolish market based pricing, feel free to do so, but it's unlikely you would find a way forward that is acceptable to all parties.

 

[PeterC]

They are what I said in my post.
£350 return or £175 single (assuming Man Picc to Euston).
Utterly insane prices.

And yes - before anyone says, I know that few "normal" people will pay such fares but it is still insane. Especially as, if what is said above about advance fares being available for travel within 15 mins is true. How on earth can those prices be justified? Of course we all know Virgin want to move railway ticket pricing to be more like airline ticket pricing, and you can see that in these prices!

"Normal" people will see the headline price, say "**** it" and grab the car keys.

 

[yorkie]

"Normal" people will see the headline price, say "**** it" and grab the car keys.

If they literally did that, by the time they got to London it would be at a time that Off Peak tickets would be valid to arrive, so anyone in such a position would be able - from a time perspective - to wait for the first train that is valid with an Off Peak Return.

The price of an Off Peak Return is lower than that of going by car (but Virgin think it's too cheap and have requested Government consider abolishing these regulated fares, but that's another story!)

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The price of an Off Peak Return is lower than that of going by car

If you include all the costs of ownership and the like, perhaps. But in terms of the cash expenditure that people consider the 'real' cost, driving will often be cheaper than even the Off-Peak Return. If several people are travelling, all bets are off.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you include all the costs of ownership and the like, perhaps. But in terms of the cash expenditure that people consider the 'real' cost, driving will often be cheaper than even the Off-Peak Return. If several people are travelling, all bets are off.

The Two Together and Family Railcards contribute to that of course. But it probably isn't worth spending subsidy on getting familes of 4 out of their newish medium-sized family car, as this is actually a very pollution and road space efficient way of transporting them. The primary issue with cars, particularly electric ones which remove the pollution at the point of use, is of cars with one person in them, as most of them are.

 

[Howardh]

If they literally did that, by the time they got to London it would be at a time that Off Peak tickets would be valid to arrive, so anyone in such a position would be able - from a time perspective - to wait for the first train that is valid with an Off Peak Return.

Indeed, from my house to Euston by train would take 3.5hrs (maybe much less on a good day) including 2hr10' Man/Eus. To drive at peak times would take ???. Setting off at 9am even if there wasn't one single delay the M1/M6 = 2.5hrs - getting to the M6 = 1/2hr and I've no idea from the M1 to Central London at noon ...an hour?? So without one single delay (hello Stoke, Birmingham North....) I'm getting there at roughly the same time as the 1015 from Picc for around £50, with no petrol to pay, no congestion charge, no parking fees and I can have a pee without stopping.

EDIT Still wish we could fly from Ringway to London City. Grrr.

 

[PeterC]

If they literally did that, by the time they got to London it would be at a time that Off Peak tickets would be valid to arrive, so anyone in such a position would be able - from a time perspective - to wait for the first train that is valid with an Off Peak Return.

The price of an Off Peak Return is lower than that of going by car (but Virgin think it's too cheap and have requested Government consider abolishing these regulated fares, but that's another story!)

But when the headline cost is splashed all over the newspaper, as in this example, why would a "normal" person even bother to research other fares.

 

[Silverdale]

But when the headline cost is splashed all over the newspaper, as in this example, why would a "normal" person even bother to research other fares.

To be fair to the news site concerned, the headline being "splashed" was that a Tory MP was demanding more investment from his own government for public transport in the North of England to get cars off the road.

The '£1320 return for a party of four' claim was made in an instantly forgettable comment, below the line, by some anonymous numpty for whom even the word "research" obviously belongs to a foreign language.

 

[Silver Cobra]

People in general? Or that advances can be released at any time? Virgin release them 12 weeks in advance (I'm waiting to book 1st Aug) but I don't know if other TOC's have the same, different or just release when they feel like.

LNER release their advances around 12 weeks in advance, adding the next week of advances every Friday (I wanted to book a journey from Arlesey to Scarborough for 29th July using LNER between Peterborough and York, which only became available this morning).

For Virgin Trains, according to National Rail Enquiries, advances are available up to 19th July. As such, it'll be around another 2 weeks before advances for 1st August will be released. You can find the page on NRE with all the dates for advance availability with the different TOCs here:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/44703.aspx

 

[neilmc]

It's a scam targeting the unwary, the unfamiliar and the undiscerning business traveller. Just because most people on this site know never to book Anytime fares for a journey such as Manchester to London doesn't mean that other people who suddenly find themselves having to make that journey have the same level of knowledge. I used to work for Lloyds bank, and at one time their travel bureau just churned out Anytime tickets by routine. When they found their travel bill crippling and rising, they outsourced travel to an agency and the first thing the agency did was refuse to issue Anytime returns, forcing staff to book at least one leg by Advance or arrange afternoon meetings so they could travel off-peak. Also ones individual business travel costs were recorded as a possible factor to be weighed at ones appraisal. Hello off-peak travel and cheap Travelodges! Hello video conferences!

It's a classic exploitation of a more-or-less captive market and I hope Virgin and others of their ilk have been very badly hit now that businesses have fought back.

 

[robbeech]

The reason fares are the rice they are is generally because this is what the market can stand. If they couldn’t get away with it they wouldn’t do it. If they could get away with them being higher (demand and regulation) they would be higher.

Tickets will always be the maximum permissible price.

 

[sdrennan]

My company use Train line and I have to use this system but,
There are often special corporate fares to attract people. Free first class etc.
It does not stop me using split ticketing site to plan the best journey then actually bookbon train line. A bit more pain but easily done
Most business travellers don't just spend spend spend but question what is good value

 

[infobleep]

People in general? Or that advances can be released at any time? Virgin release them 12 weeks in advance (I'm waiting to book 1st Aug) but I don't know if other TOC's have the same, different or just release when they feel like. So if I were travelling with any other TOC and looked up the fare today for 1st August, I would have no idea if cheaper tickets would be available if I waited - just like I would have no idea if the price Jet2 or Ryanair charge today would be less (or more) next month.

With airlines it's a lottery, presumably less so for the railways but will it be a lottery if they go down the airlines ticketing route?

I was looking to book tickets to Canada. When I checked again a week later, the prices had dropped. This was for travel within 3 months.

I wasn't aware of any perticular advertised seat sale that had suddenly occurred.

 

[_toommm_]

I was looking to book tickets to Canada. When I checked again a week later, the prices had dropped. This was for travel within 3 months.

I wasn't aware of any perticular advertised seat sale that had suddenly occurred.

I've seen Northern do it on the Leeds to Sheffield flows. The day before they're just offering the standard single fare not via Doncaster, then on the day there's suddenly loads of advance fares.

Bit cheeky IMO.

 

[infobleep]

It may have been done to death, but it doesn't make it right or justifiable. If it were me there should be a cap on rail fares in the region of £100-150, and if the rail companies don't like it, they can get out of the game!

But they claim the money is needed to fund the running of the railways. For example improvements and maintenance. So if it goes down, then so would the money to do work.

 

[Howardh]

Interesting that while I'm waiting for Virgin's cheap deals, for the 1st August Split Ticketing is offering £48 single for Bolton > Gatwick via Piccadilly, Sheffield and St Pancras when I imput "via St Pancras".
If I booked the journey right now but left out the "via St Pancras" bit and followed their route via Victoria I'd be paying £99 not only would I miss Virgin's cheaper deals, I'd miss the cheaper St P option.
How many who are not regular rail users know (a) that Virgin will eventually have cheaper fares and (b) if you book now they will charge you for the way THEY want to send you and not necessarily the cheapest? Maybe ticket sites could all indicate that "if you wait until ??/?? cheaper advance tickets will be available" and then at least there would be more clarity?

 

[robbeech]

The problem is. If you wait until ??/?? You might not be offered cheaper tickets. You’re expecting multiple TOCs and retailers to communicate.

 

[OwlMan]

The problem is. If you wait until ??/?? You might not be offered cheaper tickets. You’re expecting multiple TOCs and retailers to communicate.

But TOCs are not allowed to collude with each other over fares due to competition regulations

 

[Howardh]

But TOCs are not allowed to collude with each other over fares due to competition regulations

...and there's no competition on the Manchester/North West/Glasgow to London route. Farcical.

 

[Bletchleyite]

...and there's no competition on the Manchester/North West/Glasgow to London route. Farcical.

The car, the coach and the aeroplane. Or split at Crewe and use LNR.

 

[yorkie]

Interesting that while I'm waiting for Virgin's cheap deals, for the 1st August Split Ticketing is offering £48 single for Bolton > Gatwick via Piccadilly, Sheffield and St Pancras when I imput "via St Pancras".

No need to put in a via point; I see fares as low as £39 on Trainsplit in Value mode.

(Trainsplit is effectively the same as Split Ticketing - it uses the same data source - but without the £1 fee)

 

[mikeg]

I couldn't help but notice yesterday's (I think) daily heil was running the story together with a very unhelpful table comparing the cost of an anytime return with the cost of petrol (which as we all know is the only marginal cost of motoring ) .

Link to follow when I get home - I'm currently on the train home from work - incidentally a gc service for which the return cost is less than petrol alone for a typical car and not too much more than parking in central york. Or about double the park and ride fare.

I wonder if this institution of scrupulously well researched an unbiased reporting got the story from the Bolton rag or these fora?

 

[Bletchleyite]

No need to put in a via point; I see fares as low as £39 on Trainsplit in Value mode.

(Trainsplit is effectively the same as Split Ticketing - it uses the same data source - but without the £1 fee)

I did note yesterday that Trainsplit didn't charge me a fee for Cardiff-Brum via the HoWL - I did expect it would, as it used to charge a cut of what it saved. Has it stopped that entirely now? I thought it didn't for my case simply because there wasn't a through ticket to compare it with.

 

[yorkie]

I did note yesterday that Trainsplit didn't charge me a fee for Cardiff-Brum via the HoWL - I did expect it would, as it used to charge a cut of what it saved. Has it stopped that entirely now? I thought it didn't for my case simply because there wasn't a through ticket to compare it with.

Trainsplit charges 10% of any savings (no saving = no fee), however if there is no through fare to compare with, then currently there is no charge.

 

[Howardh]

No need to put in a via point; I see fares as low as £39 on Trainsplit in Value mode.

(Trainsplit is effectively the same as Split Ticketing - it uses the same data source - but without the £1 fee)

Sorry to be pedantic but in my case yes there is as I want to go via St. Panceas and not Victoria! Whenever I leave St P out - regardless of site - it ALWAYS directs me via Victoria, and just tried Trainsplit and it's done the same - four possible journeys on Aug 1 am £72.10 cheapest single. With St P £98.83 BUT Virgin's cheap advanced haven't been released yet. When they are I'm expecting to do the whole journey for just over £50 first-class with my railcard.

 

[yorkie]

Sorry to be pedantic but in my case yes there is as I want to go via St. Panceas and not Victoria! Whenever I leave St P out - regardless of site - it ALWAYS directs me via Victoria, and just tried Trainsplit and it's done the same - four possible journeys on Aug 1 am £72.10 cheapest single. With St P £98.83 BUT Virgin's cheap advanced haven't been released yet. When they are I'm expecting to do the whole journey for just over £50 first-class with my railcard.

What time are you looking at? When I tried, it found journeys via Clapham Jn, Victoria and St Pancras without any via points.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Trainsplit charges 10% of any savings (no saving = no fee), however if there is no through fare to compare with, then currently there is no charge.

Ah, I see.

 

[Howardh]

What time are you looking at? When I tried, it found journeys via Clapham Jn, Victoria and St Pancras without any via points.

Leave Bolton around 9 - 10am. In reality when Virgin cheapies arrive I'll be looking for 10 - 10.30 from Picc 1st class and have the first and last legs as seperate singles. Basically looking up trainsplit is purely for fun!