Caledonian Sleeper

[TimboM]

Instructional video re northbound shunt operation courtesy of Cambria Junction/BRX:

 

[_toommm_]

Instructional video re northbound shunt operation courtesy of Cambria Junction/BRX:

Very interesting - explains it all. Thanks for sharing

 

[_toommm_]

Seems the MK5's have not left Euston yet - nearly an hour late. The inbound ECS ran nearly two hours late. Couple of complaints coming in on Twitter.

 

[jagardner1984]

Do CS employ customer service staff at Euston, or have an arrangement with Virgin Trains or Network rail to cover this ?

In the short term at least, providing some face to face customer service on the station while people wait several hours would seem pretty sensible. Cup of tea while people wait? It’s worrying how heavily Joe public searching @CalSleeper would be greeted with a lot of really poor passenger experiences just now. Hope their lack of good fortune with the stock changes soon.

 

[Mag_seven]

Seems the MK5's have not left Euston yet - nearly an hour late. The inbound ECS ran nearly two hours late. Couple of complaints coming in on Twitter.

Just departed Motherwell with practically all of the lost time made up.

 

[47271]

Do CS employ customer service staff at Euston, or have an arrangement with Virgin Trains or Network rail to cover this ?

In the short term at least, providing some face to face customer service on the station while people wait several hours would seem pretty sensible. Cup of tea while people wait? It’s worrying how heavily Joe public searching @CalSleeper would be greeted with a lot of really poor passenger experiences just now. Hope their lack of good fortune with the stock changes soon.

Yes, they do have staff dedicated to customer service at Euston, but not enough to look after the numbers of people involved waiting for the delayed boarding of a fully booked Lowlander.

It isn't just the delay, it's the fact that there are virtually no services left open on the station when it occurs. If the same thing happens with the Highlander - and it does, quite often, with the old stock - then it's annoying but not dire.

If they're going to make a habit of this then they need to come to an arrangement with Virgin to keep the lounge open after 11pm, they can't carry on with people who have paid hefty fares wandering the concourse after midnight.

 

[modernrail]

Do CS employ customer service staff at Euston, or have an arrangement with Virgin Trains or Network rail to cover this ?

In the short term at least, providing some face to face customer service on the station while people wait several hours would seem pretty sensible. Cup of tea while people wait? It’s worrying how heavily Joe public searching @CalSleeper would be greeted with a lot of really poor passenger experiences just now. Hope their lack of good fortune with the stock changes soon.

There are staff on the platform and they are perfectly nice but have no information and so you are just left there standing on a really horrible platform with no seats and no idea whether to go to the pub or not.

They need to get this sorted and pronto. It is a joke. When they know it won't be ready for 10pm they need to be ready to catch people on the concourse, direct them to the Virgin Lounge and arrange for that to be open. You should also be getting a 25 per cent refund if it arrives in the platform more than an hour late into the platform and 50 per cent if it is more than 2 hours late. It stops being a sleeper train at that point and starts becoming an oh **** I am going yo feel like death tomorrow whilst I try and run meetings that require concentration etc.

I won't be using the lowland until they sort this out. My last meeting in Glasgow was 5 hours on complicated insurance provisions and I suspect my contribution was close to pointless.

It really doesn't help that Euston is one of the worst stations in the country to hang out in once the food places close. There is what, one tiny properly sheltered waiting room for the whole station?

 

[jagardner1984]

It’s always the basics that let them down. If the lounge isn’t an option, some plastic chairs, a trolley and a flask of tea. A partial automatic same day refund as quite clearly the service promised hasn’t been provided.

Beyond delay repay, there is a more emotive human issue, which is the desire of most people to be heading to bed / winding down for the day at 10.30/11 ish. No wonder the people waiting an hour later are cranky.

I’ve said to so many people over the years, try out the sleeper it’s brilliant. I’d hate for anyone to have one of these experiences.

 

[modernrail]

It’s always the basics that let them down. If the lounge isn’t an option, some plastic chairs, a trolley and a flask of tea. A partial automatic same day refund as quite clearly the service promised hasn’t been provided.

Beyond delay repay, there is a more emotive human issue, which is the desire of most people to be heading to bed / winding down for the day at 10.30/11 ish. No wonder the people waiting an hour later are cranky.

I’ve said to so many people over the years, try out the sleeper it’s brilliant. I’d hate for anyone to have one of these experiences.

Agreed, when you take people's sleep away from them after promising them hotel luxury and replace it with Euston at it's worst, don't be expecting anything other than extreme annoyance and very bad word of mouth about your product.

 

[Highlandspring]

Perhaps CS should be investing in opening a lounge of their own at Euston. Perhaps they could relocate their brick outhouse from Leuchars..?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps CS should be investing in opening a lounge of their own at Euston. Perhaps they could relocate their brick outhouse from Leuchars..?

There used to be one - it was a Portakabin which was situated in that dead space (is it bike racks at the moment?) at the end of platform 17.

 

[Scotrail84]

There used to be one - it was a Portakabin which was situated in that dead space (is it bike racks at the moment?) at the end of platform 17.

When did this exist and when did it stop getting used?

 

[TimboM]

CS and their partners should (and are) putting their limited and finite resources (people and £££) fully into resolving the issues with the stock so it is coming in on time regularly as soon as possible, not diverting them away from that core objective by spending thousands on extra staff/facilities at Euston for the occasions when the stock may be late.

If there's to be a facility available at a moment's notice to accommodate tens/hundreds of passengers on the odd night a month the stock is late (once things settle down) it would need to be in place and staffed all nights the Sleeper is running. In the real world you cannot magic up staff, building, heat, light, provisions, security etc within a few minutes once or twice a month when needed at 10pm at night. More often than not when there's a delay it's also a dynamic and developing (or deteriorating!) situation at the depot - it's not as simple as knowing at (say) 20:00 the stock won't be in until 23:00 and that the 'alternative facilities' would definitely be needed.

Providing such a 'full-time' facility directs resource to the symptom, not the root cause - far better to spend the money on getting the root causes fixed ASAP so the stock comes in on time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When did this exist and when did it stop getting used?

Not totally sure I'm afraid. I suspect it was in First's tenure.

 

[leightonbd]

Serious question: over the two weeks the new kit has been running, how often has there been late* boarding in London? Plenty of other issues may need to be sorted (leaky showers, couplings, buttons pressed incorrectly) but I’d be very keen to know the real number here. X out of 12.

* Defn: boarding after 1030 pm. I have been used to boarding (northbound)just after 10pm over the last few months, up until about the end of March.

 

[MrEd]

There used to be one - it was a Portakabin which was situated in that dead space (is it bike racks at the moment?) at the end of platform 17.

I wonder if anyone has any photos? I for one never saw it, but then I only came to use the sleeper regularly in about 2014, so it was probably long gone by then. Presumably it wasn't well used?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I wonder if anyone has any photos? I for one never saw it, but then I only came to use the sleeper regularly in about 2014, so it was probably long gone by then. Presumably it wasn't well used?

I remember it and have used it, but I don't think I ever got it in any photographs. It always seemed fairly busy when I did use it. I recall it was quite well fitted out inside.

 

[theironroad]

CS and their partners should (and are) putting their limited and finite resources (people and £££) fully into resolving the issues with the stock so it is coming in on time regularly as soon as possible, not diverting them away from that core objective by spending thousands on extra staff/facilities at Euston for the occasions when the stock may be late.

If there's to be a facility available at a moment's notice to accommodate tens/hundreds of passengers on the odd night a month the stock is late (once things settle down) it would need to be in place and staffed all nights the Sleeper is running. In the real world you cannot magic up staff, building, heat, light, provisions, security etc within a few minutes once or twice a month when needed at 10pm at night. More often than not when there's a delay it's also a dynamic and developing (or deteriorating!) situation at the depot - it's not as simple as knowing at (say) 20:00 the stock won't be in until 23:00 and that the 'alternative facilities' would definitely be needed.

Providing such a 'full-time' facility directs resource to the symptom, not the root cause - far better to spend the money on getting the root causes fixed ASAP so the stock comes in on time.

nobody is talking about it being a permanent facility. however, during the introduction of the new stock, i'm sure teething problems were anticipated in the planing process. one of the scenarios that i hope was considered is either the late arrival of the empty stock or worse, the stock not being available at all and the service cancelled while passengers were waiting to board.

there are plenty of hotels in the euston area that CS could come to a temporary contract with for use of some lounge facilities. yes there will be a cost for CS. but right now, leaving passengers/guests milling around on a pretty much closed station for an hour or two is going to cost them more in lost future business than covering the cost of some temporary lounge facilities while news tock is introduced on both the low and high and teething problems are overcome...

 

[Highlandspring]

nobody is talking about it being a permanent facility.

Well actually I am. Sharing the Virgin lounge at Euston is ok but it is not great when it’s busy and doesn’t really shout “great Scottish hotel on wheels” to me. CS have invested heavily in lounges with showers at Scottish stations - they spent an eye watering sum at Perth renovating the former offices on platform 4 - albeit these were part of the franchise specification. It just seems a bit surprising not to have gone one step futher to obtain and develop a space of their own at Euston especially given that it is probably the most intensely used of all the CS origin/destination stations, as the vast majority of passengers will pass through there one way or the other. The work that’s kicking off at Euston just now would be an ideal chance to find somewhere to slot in a CS lounge.

 

[Muenchener]

When it rains it pours. Not good reading but, being historic, the next set of figures should show an improvement.

https://www-scotsman-com.cdn.amppro...-177k-for-failing-quality-standards-1-4925466

"Caledonian Sleeper has been fined £177,000 for failing tough quality standards in the first year that official inspections have carried penalties."

 

[jagardner1984]

Slightly off topic but lounges and quiet spaces are all the rage in transport hubs (airports etc). It’s surprising they aren’t more widespread in uk rail.

I think with regards to this issue, it sort of Splits into two. One is a better space for Sleeper passengers to wait full stop (realistically this would need to be pretty big). As TimboM mentioned, that would be a hefty investment, on an already loss making service.

The other is a little simpler, IMHO. The Twitter tales of passengers sobbing on platforms at half past midnight, words like chaos, farce being used are pretty awful.

So I’m not expecting them to have a fault free introduction of complex rolling stock. I’m not expecting them to never be late. I am wondering at what point it became obvious there would be a delay (2100, 2130 ?) and why someone at Wembley couldn’t speak to someone at CS control to speak to someone at Euston Control to get someone to get some plastic chairs and a trolley of drinks down to the concourse. Let them sit on an empty train, do something.

A situation where almost 2 hours after boarding, an hour after departure, people are messaging with “WTF is going on, we have no information and are freezing” surely indicates a pretty shambolic state of affairs.

 

[47271]

Maybe they should have their own lounge at Euston but, for now, we have a luxury train advertised as boarding at 10pm which is hit and miss at making 11pm, and nowhere for anyone to go when it doesn't.

I use the sleeper a lot less now than I did in Scotrail days, my work travel patterns have changed a lot, but I got caught with a heavily delayed Highlander at Euston one night. It got cancelled and used as a hotel in the end. I wasn't that bothered myself, but what was upsetting was seeing people with small kids and dogs, confused foreign tourists and people on a trip of a lifetime, all milling around P15 baffled until there was a clear line on what would happen next to their night's sleep - and that was only at 9pm.

I take @TimboM's point that CS need to concentrate on getting the advertised service right but there is an immediate human and reputational cost that needs to be mitigated in the circumstances of serious delay to boarding at either end of the line.

Remembering what I saw on the Highlander, I suspect that a lot of the Twitter abuse they're taking is from newbies who have been persuaded to take the Lowlander because of the new trains. There's nothing new to boarding hold ups, but in the old days the majority of Lowlander users would've seen it all before and not spouted off on social media.

 

[jagardner1984]

Agree 47271.

I also think a change in the social media age is that some of these posts have been in response to a generic PR social media message posted earlier that day “Dream Big, come with us on the journey of a night time” complete with glamourous image of person walking alongside new trains.

I’d imagine if that’s what you see when cold on a platform seeking any info at midnight, it probably raises your ire somewhat.

 

[Highlandspring]

The point I woud add is that Euston and the area immediately surrounding it can be a pretty intimidating place late at night if you’re just visiting London and you’re not used to the city, especially once everywhere starts closing and the concourse empties. Well this country bumpkin finds it a bit intimidating anyway.

 

[BRX]

I get what TimboM says about it not being easy just to spirit something up, and that they need to focus on causes rather than symptoms but I agree the current approach is no good. Even when there are smaller delays it's no good; the information provision is often pretty poor with a load of people standing around not knowing what's going on. The 'check in' desk system seems to make people feel that they need to get in a queue too, plus people who arrive at the back can't see the little lecterns and don't really understand what the system is. I often have the impression there are many people in CS uniform or hi-vis bustling around getting the train ready but avoiding eye contact with the passengers (who don't understand why the train is there but they can't get on it). It's not unusual for me to be explaining to other passengers what's going on, including when the info i have might be from reading this thread! That shouldn't be the case - there should be CS people more actively checking with passengers. And even aside from the cold, the lack of seating is really a problem, especially for older or less mobile people.

That's tended to be my experience at Euston anyway, new trains or not.

 

[Mathew S]

The point I woud add is that Euston and the area immediately surrounding it can be a pretty intimidating place late at night if you’re just visiting London and you’re not used to the city, especially once everywhere starts closing and the concourse empties. Well this country bumpkin finds it a bit intimidating anyway.

Seconded. And I'm far from a country bumpkin!

 

[Busaholic]

Seconded. And I'm far from a country bumpkin!

Thirded. And I worked on the Euston Road for many years.

 

[Statto]

Maybe they should have their own lounge at Euston but, for now, we have a luxury train advertised as boarding at 10pm which is hit and miss at making 11pm, and nowhere for anyone to go when it doesn't.

I use the sleeper a lot less now than I did in Scotrail days, my work travel patterns have changed a lot, but I got caught with a heavily delayed Highlander at Euston one night. It got cancelled and used as a hotel in the end. I wasn't that bothered myself, but what was upsetting was seeing people with small kids and dogs, confused foreign tourists and people on a trip of a lifetime, all milling around P15 baffled until there was a clear line on what would happen next to their night's sleep - and that was only at 9pm.

I take @TimboM's point that CS need to concentrate on getting the advertised service right but there is an immediate human and reputational cost that needs to be mitigated in the circumstances of serious delay to boarding at either end of the line.

Remembering what I saw on the Highlander, I suspect that a lot of the Twitter abuse they're taking is from newbies who have been persuaded to take the Lowlander because of the new trains. There's nothing new to boarding hold ups, but in the old days the majority of Lowlander users would've seen it all before and not spouted off on social media.

I suspect a lot of the abuse is because, the service is being advertised as a hotel on wheels, passengers paying anything up to £400 single passenger, the Lowland sleeper is advertised as boarding from 10pm at Euston[the train should be at the platforms around 9.30pm], quite often since the introduction of the new mk5 stock, it hasn't left Wembley depot until gone 11pm in some cases gone midnight, passengers wanting to turn in for the night, are being left on platforms/concourses with most of the station shops closed, wondering where there train is, & by the time the Lowlander train arrives in Euston, chances of getting a decent night sleep have gone, it's not good publicity for CS.

 

[modernrail]

I suspect a lot of the abuse is because, the service is being advertised as a hotel on wheels, passengers paying anything up to £400 single passenger, the Lowland sleeper is advertised as boarding from 10pm at Euston[the train should be at the platforms around 9.30pm], quite often since the introduction of the new mk5 stock, it hasn't left Wembley depot until gone 11pm in some cases gone midnight, passengers wanting to turn in for the night, are being left on platforms/concourses with most of the station shops closed, wondering where there train is, & by the time the Lowlander train arrives in Euston, chances of getting a decent night sleep have gone, it's not good publicity for CS.

Agreed. It's really simple...for every single night you don't get the train in to the platform on time you need to have a plan for where you will host those passengers until it does arrive. Also agree it is a nonsense that Euston is station with the biggest concentration of sleeper passengers and the least provision for waiting in comfort.

I personally don't see any alternative to the Virgin Lounge. Hotels etc are quite a long way away and it needs to be a comfortable distance for disabled and elderly passengers and families and those with large amounts of luggage, all of whom are part of the regular mix of sleeper passengers.

This just needs to be part of the service, unless they cut the fares so massively so that it is somehow acceptable to treat your passengers worse than Ryanair who at least leave you waiting in an airport with chairs and cafes.

 

[leightonbd]

What is the difficulty which is leading to boarding delays for the new stock? Is it of the nature of one fundamental thing (coupling?) or a series of different issues?