• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

Status
Not open for further replies.

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
At the time when the first Northern refurbished 150/1s were being rolled out, I caught one. Another passenger onboard was commenting that it was a new train. I explained to him that it was in fact a 30+ year old train that had been refurbished and that the new trains should start entering service during 2018. He wouldn't have it and insisted the 150/1 was brand new!
I can't stand people like that. You tell them something and then they still insist that they're right. If he thinks a refurbished 150/1 is brand new, what would he think a 195 is...?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Chester1

Established Member
Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
3,972
I can't stand people like that. You tell them something and then they still insist that they're right. If he thinks a refurbished 150/1 is brand new, what would he think a 195 is...?

Better than people who think they are pacers and will rant next about why they are still in service! The refurbished 150s and are decent considering they will be the worst in the fleet. They will do until the next franchise.

I am still hoping some Pacers will be sent to South Wales after the May timetable change once 3tph between Preston and Manchester go electric. They seem pretty desperate for any trains, there are rumours on other threads that a Mark II set will be used on Rhymney and redundant GWR HSTs on Cardiff-Hoyhead. A few 142s on the Valleys Lines would help too. Do the North West depots still need all of them after 10 pacer diagrams become 319 or faster diagrams?
 

Killingworth

Established Member
Joined
30 May 2018
Messages
4,811
Location
Sheffield
At the time when the first Northern refurbished 150/1s were being rolled out, I caught one. Another passenger onboard was commenting that it was a new train. I explained to him that it was in fact a 30+ year old train that had been refurbished and that the new trains should start entering service during 2018. He wouldn't have it and insisted the 150/1 was brand new!

Refurbished they may be, but they don't look new for long. Some sample seat cushions from a carriage of 156542. Between a quarter and a third looked soiled. I can understand why so many prefer to stand even when seats are vacant.

IMG_20190403_095056 - Copy.jpg IMG_20190403_095339 - Copy.jpg IMG_20190403_095409 - Copy.jpg IMG_20190403_095501 - Copy.jpg IMG_20190403_095552.jpg
 

Mogster

Member
Joined
25 Sep 2018
Messages
902
Yes.That’s the state of the seating in most of the even refurbished units I travel to Manchester on. Disgusting.

I don’t understand why the interiors look so dirty. It seems to have got worse lately. It’s as if cleaning only involves removing rubbish now.
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
Yes.That’s the state of the seating in most of the even refurbished units I travel to Manchester on. Disgusting.

I don’t understand why the interiors look so dirty. It seems to have got worse lately. It’s as if cleaning only involves removing rubbish now.
A problem is the use of flat cloth on the seats on the earlier refurbishments which they since realised was a mistake and have switched to moquette on subsequent refurbs.

What kind of flooring is on that 156...? I thought 153/155/156/158s were all meant to be carpeted and only 150s lino'd.
 
Last edited:

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
Better than people who think they are pacers and will rant next about why they are still in service! The refurbished 150s and are decent considering they will be the worst in the fleet. They will do until the next franchise.

I am still hoping some Pacers will be sent to South Wales after the May timetable change once 3tph between Preston and Manchester go electric. They seem pretty desperate for any trains, there are rumours on other threads that a Mark II set will be used on Rhymney and redundant GWR HSTs on Cardiff-Hoyhead. A few 142s on the Valleys Lines would help too. Do the North West depots still need all of them after 10 pacer diagrams become 319 or faster diagrams?
I suppose that's another way of looking at it!

As for Wales, yes there are videos of Class 37 TfW driver training on YouTube, and the (rumoured ro be) Mark 2 train would work morning and evening rush hours Rhymney-Cardiff Central and back. Not sure about HSTs on South-North; that one I'll believe when I see any trace of it. As for the Pacers, aren't the 144s meant to be coming off Northern first...? You know TfW Rail are desperate when they ressurected 142-073 that ATW had withdrawn - cracked chassis repaired (welded...?) and there was even a February 2019 date on an engine! Finally it's now a week since the 5 153s from GWR were delivered, and I don't think any have been out yet, so along with 769-002 there are now 6 units in Canton not doing a whole lot. Maybe next month we'll see that change.
 

Cardiff123

Established Member
Joined
10 Mar 2013
Messages
1,318
Whilst I'm sure TfW wouldn't say no to any extra Pacers, it's obvious they've given up on waiting for Northern to release any, by getting hold of the LHCS for Rhymney. If TfW were confident of getting Pacers from Northern in May to cover for 150s we wouldn't be seeing the 37 + Mk2's on the Valleys, I'm sure extra Pacers would be operationally much easier for them to manage.
 

Chris217

Member
Joined
7 Nov 2018
Messages
620
Wonder why it's always 37s
for LH services on the Rhymney trains.
Not many of those left.
Mind you,probably cheaper than using 67s or 68s.

Probably 37s as first choice with CF drivers knowing the traction and all.
Mind you
67s were all once allocated to Cardiff Canton.
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
Wonder why it's always 37s
for LH services on the Rhymney trains.
Not many of those left.
Mind you,probably cheaper than using 67s or 68s.

Probably 37s as first choice with CF drivers knowing the traction and all.
Mind you
67s were all once allocated to Cardiff Canton.


They will be Rhymney drivers
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
Northern Pacer Withdrawals, people!

So absolutely no Pacers have been withdrawn from Northern, correct...?

Apparently it might start happening from May, but then again won't the further delayed introduction of the 195s due to their internal bar coupler issues prevent that...?
 

jonesy3001

Established Member
Joined
13 Jul 2009
Messages
3,248
Location
Otley, West Yorkshire
Northern Pacer Withdrawals, people!

So absolutely no Pacers have been withdrawn from Northern, correct...?

Apparently it might start happening from May, but then again won't the further delayed introduction of the 195s due to their internal bar coupler issues prevent that...?

With the bolton line going mostly EMU traction after the may TT change, don't think there should be a problem with the pacers finally being retired.
 

OrangeJuice

Member
Joined
4 Jun 2018
Messages
181
With the bolton line going mostly EMU traction after the may TT change, don't think there should be a problem with the pacers finally being retired.

How many sprinters still require PRM modifications?

I think that may have an effect on whether northern can retire sprinters or not
 

AMD

Member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
604
With the bolton line going mostly EMU traction after the may TT change, don't think there should be a problem with the pacers finally being retired.

Retiring of pacers won't happen at the May TT change - the business is running at 7.6% short forms over the past week, so any units are required to run the booked service. Also there isn't a surfeit of 319s either, 319384 failed with faulty AWS this morning which resulted in a diesel being used for its diagram - there will be a fleet shuffle come May, however it's more a case of rearranging the deck chairs rather than capacity suddenly appearing from the ether.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,624
Location
Another planet...
The earliest signs of the end being in sight for Pacers will probably be when one develops a fault which would usually be repaired, but is stood down or becomes a spares donor to keep the remainder going.
 

Glenn1969

Established Member
Joined
22 Jan 2019
Messages
1,983
Location
Halifax, Yorks
Think the promise was they would be gone by the end of the year. But the teething problems with the new stock is making me think we may be stuck with them until the end of 2020 or later
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,624
Location
Another planet...
Think the promise was they would be gone by the end of the year. But the teething problems with the new stock is making me think we may be stuck with them until the end of 2020 or later
In which case Northern will need to ask for a derogation from the accessibility rules which come in on Jan 1st... and there's no guarantee they'd get one.
 

Paul_10

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
736
In which case Northern will need to ask for a derogation from the accessibility rules which come in on Jan 1st... and there's no guarantee they'd get one.

And I doubt that would happen or be accepted so that means come 2020, some lines may have no service at all and be replaced by buses for goodness knows how long.

I do hope common sence kicks in and think of the customers before the politics.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,624
Location
Another planet...
And I doubt that would happen or be accepted so that means come 2020, some lines may have no service at all and be replaced by buses for goodness knows how long.

I do hope common sence kicks in and think of the customers before the politics.
Sooner or later a call will have to be made about how to deal with a situation of a lack of compliant stock. If 153s are retained and used with a compliant unit (rather than two compliant units being used together) that may give some wiggle-room. If that is allowed then there's an argument for continuing to use Pacers in the same way for a limited time. The only issue being the lack of gangways, which can be mitigated by giving accurate information about where to board.

It wouldn't go down well, but neither would bustitution. From what I can gather most vehicles used on rail replacement services aren't wheelchair accessible either.
 

Paul_10

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
736
So with the May timetable change now in place, has any pacers been withdrawn?

From my observation of a trip from Morecambe to Newcastle, the usual 142 was on the shuttle service aswell as another 142 from Leeds to Morecambe. The tyne Valley line has got many 142s on it today it seems which is surprising seeing as I thought it was going to be operated by 156s and 158s only. Infact before the TT change I think there was only one 142 diagram from Newcastle to Carlisle during the daytime but there was at least 4 142s including my train and just 2 156s with not a single 158 in sight.

As I said previously I got my doubts every pacer will be withdrawn this year and unless there is a proposal of 1 more year exemption of pacers then 2020 is going to be very interesting.
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,196
Location
County Durham
So with the May timetable change now in place, has any pacers been withdrawn?

From my observation of a trip from Morecambe to Newcastle, the usual 142 was on the shuttle service aswell as another 142 from Leeds to Morecambe. The tyne Valley line has got many 142s on it today it seems which is surprising seeing as I thought it was going to be operated by 156s and 158s only. Infact before the TT change I think there was only one 142 diagram from Newcastle to Carlisle during the daytime but there was at least 4 142s including my train and just 2 156s with not a single 158 in sight.

As I said previously I got my doubts every pacer will be withdrawn this year and unless there is a proposal of 1 more year exemption of pacers then 2020 is going to be very interesting.
142s should still work the majority of Hexham - Middlesbrough services, this may be why there appeared to be several of them on the Tyne Valley. As far as I am aware they should now be rare west of Hexham
 

jonesy3001

Established Member
Joined
13 Jul 2009
Messages
3,248
Location
Otley, West Yorkshire
Northern are probably keeping the pacers in service till all of the sprinters have had PRM mods and the CAF units start entering service then start getting rid of them.
 

Paul_10

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
736
Nope 4 going all the way to Carlisle although I did see one unit that came from Middlesbrough(been using RTT to track down the trains) which was also a 142.

The 142 I was on was a stopper service which came from Saltburn which whilst that is a 156 diagram a 142 is probably not unusual but the next train from Carlisle to Morpeth was definitely covering for a 158.

Got to say I don't mind as I have soft spot for 142s but I am surprised that I did not see a single 158 and its perhaps not the upgrade passengers were expecting.
 

EIKN

Member
Joined
19 Sep 2017
Messages
113
I noticed on a news report there was a class 150 parked in the York Bay platform , where normally the horrific pile of scrap on wheels ( Pacer ) usually stops .
So at a guess that was Northern's idea of an upgrade.
The only way to get rid of pacers is to send a load to Southwest Railways territory, swap our pacers for their class 158/9 and see how long ' Southern ' users accept a glorified frieght wagon based on technology that was last in common use before the birth of the Queen .
Them and upto the class 150 are an utter insult given the cost of tickets .

Not to mention to get from my local station to Doncaster is 45 mins, or 15 by car !.
They may well have saved branch lines years ago , but they are boyind redemption now .
And the lunacy continues by taking 40 odd year old tube stock and turning those into the next pacer !. Only in the UK...
 

darloscott

Member
Joined
12 Dec 2013
Messages
772
Location
Stockton
Came back through Leeds between 1-2pm earlier and only saw 2 142s and a 144 in the time I was hanging around. One 142 was just parked up in p5, one worked the 1358 Knottingley and the 144 (3 car) was on 1406 Huddersfield. Did note a 142 parked up in p2 at York though
 

DannyMich2018

Member
Joined
19 Dec 2018
Messages
732
So with the May timetable change now in place, has any pacers been withdrawn?

From my observation of a trip from Morecambe to Newcastle, the usual 142 was on the shuttle service aswell as another 142 from Leeds to Morecambe. The tyne Valley line has got many 142s on it today it seems which is surprising seeing as I thought it was going to be operated by 156s and 158s only. Infact before the TT change I think there was only one 142 diagram from Newcastle to Carlisle during the daytime but there was at least 4 142s including my train and just 2 156s with not a single 158 in sight.

As I said previously I got my doubts every pacer will be withdrawn this year and unless there is a proposal of 1 more year exemption of pacers then 2020 is going to be very interesting.
Well considering NOT A SINGLE Class 195 or Class 769 has entered service yet and the Northern fleet has 100 or so Pacers in it and with no imminent sign of any entry into traffic there will certainly be Pacers in service in 2020, how many we don't know!! Certainly some.
 

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
4,622
I noticed on a news report there was a class 150 parked in the York Bay platform , where normally the horrific pile of scrap on wheels ( Pacer ) usually stops .
So at a guess that was Northern's idea of an upgrade.
The only way to get rid of pacers is to send a load to Southwest Railways territory, swap our pacers for their class 158/9 and see how long ' Southern ' users accept a glorified frieght wagon based on technology that was last in common use before the birth of the Queen .
Them and upto the class 150 are an utter insult given the cost of tickets .

Not to mention to get from my local station to Doncaster is 45 mins, or 15 by car !.
They may well have saved branch lines years ago , but they are boyind redemption now .
And the lunacy continues by taking 40 odd year old tube stock and turning those into the next pacer !. Only in the UK...

Do I detect, subtly that there may be a minor dislike of these units?
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
Well considering NOT A SINGLE Class 195 or Class 769 has entered service yet and the Northern fleet has 100 or so Pacers in it and with no imminent sign of any entry into traffic there will certainly be Pacers in service in 2020, how many we don't know!! Certainly some.
Northern have 102 Pacers to be exact (79 142s, 13 2-car 144s and 10 3-car 144s)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top