Northern timetable changes May 2019

[30907]

The service I use quite a lot from Retford to Sheffield has an enhanced service as part of the new timetable. I can't believe that the service that now only stops at Worksop before Sheffield is only 8 minutes quicker than the stopper that calls at 5 extra stops. Any thoughts as to why this is so slow, I know there's slack timetabling as the existing service quite often arrives early outside Sheffield and then sits in the tunnels for 5 minutes or so.

For the random off peak ones Ive just looked up on RTT the difference is 10 minutes, so 2 minutes per stop, which is about right for units, and going into SHF there's 4 mins of allowances, as you say.
I notice that pass-to-pass averages are just under 60mph - is the line limit higher?

 

[xotGD]

155s appear to have been banished from the Pontefract Line. Back to Pavers today .

 

[thejuggler]

I've just been looking at services between Bradford and Leeds, whilst it looks well served with 6 direct services every hour (4 from Interchange and 2 from Forster Square), it appears there are none in the second half of the hour i.e between xx:32 and xx:00 at peak times.

 

[Marton]

158 finally booked to Whitby

1402 ex middlesbrough and return.

 

[Deerfold]

I've just been looking at services between Bradford and Leeds, whilst it looks well served with 6 direct services every hour (4 from Interchange and 2 from Forster Square), it appears there are none in the second half of the hour i.e between xx:32 and xx:00 at peak times.

No, that has been pointed out - all the way to Halifax which had a biggest gap of about 21 minutes until this weekend.

Coming the other way from Halifax the first trains have gone from 0602, 0627, 0647 to 0600, 0645.

 

[Glenn1969]

Hopefully that gap could be plugged in December. Guess we will have to wait and see

 

[Killingworth]

Hope Valley line seems to be jinxed although the timetable changes probably aren't the cause.

For our hourly stopping service we've already had 2 trains fail to make it in each direction both yesterday and today. Nobody in their right mind would rely on a train from Sheffield to Dore in an evening. It takes 6 minutes for the 4 mile journey and is cheaper than the bus taking 25 minutes or a taxi. Tonight the last train to Dore left Sheffield at 19.17, three minutes late. The next isn't due until 22.54.

Anyone catching the Northern 18.14 for Piccadilly got as far as Ashbury's where it seems to have finally expired 71 minutes late at 19.46.

 

[johntea]

155s appear to have been banished from the Pontefract Line. Back to Pavers today .

Please don't tell me the 17:58 Leeds to Goole is now a pacer!

 

[156dom]

158 finally booked to Whitby

1402 ex middlesbrough and return.

Yeah 158843 made the very first appearance of a 158 down the esk valley line.

 

[Bovverboy]

Has the 0559 MAN-LIV (via NLW)! now switched from 319/323's to DMU's?

Today's service is formed of a 142 and a 150.

I meant the 0559 MIA-LIV (via NLW) sorry.

It looks as though the duty is going to be DMU-operated for the rest of the week, but not necessarily with the same set, of course.

 

[Marton]

Yeah 158843 made the very first appearance of a 158 down the esk valley line.

How do they manage at Kildale?

From memory a 156 barely fitted and 158s are a bit longer.

 

[DJH1971]

It looks as though the duty is going to be DMU-operated for the rest of the week, but not necessarily with the same set, of course.

But is this diagram still normally allocated to an EMU?

 

[geoffk]

I know tomorrow is the start of Chester-Leeds and Sheffield-Gainsborough plus the last train from Leeds to Halifax is half an hour later. I really want the timetable to work this year in advance of the Northern Connect launch

Northern Connect seems to have gone very quiet. Sheffield - Hull has gone over to 170s, while the Leeds - Chester might not be getting 195s. Also 331s are bound to go on non-NC services as there is only one electrified NC route (Man Airport - Blackpool). For Northern Connect to work, stock allocation will have to be better than the current "random unit generator".

 

[Kite159]

How do they manage at Kildale?

From memory a 156 barely fitted and 158s are a bit longer.

If the 158 won't fit, then local door only?

 

[Deerfold]

Northern Connect seems to have gone very quiet. Sheffield - Hull has gone over to 170s, while the Leeds - Chester might not be getting 195s. Also 331s are bound to go on non-NC services as there is only one electrified NC route (Man Airport - Blackpool). For Northern Connect to work, stock allocation will have to be better than the current "random unit generator".

Presumably once they've a decent number of 195s there will be far few possibilities. I'd expect anything not NC to still get random 15x or 195s.

 

[xotGD]

Please don't tell me the 17:58 Leeds to Goole is now a pacer!

3-car 144

 

[Bovverboy]

It looks as though the duty is going to be DMU-operated for the rest of the week, but not necessarily with the same set, of course.

But is this diagram still normally allocated to an EMU?

It's still diagrammed for an EMU, and is likely to remain so (since it operates entirely below OHLE). If there were enough EMUs to go round it would no doubt be EMU-operated - but there presumably aren't, at the moment.

 

[northernchris]

3-car 144

There's currently a 155 on the diagram, although it is listed on Journey Check as a short form.

The diagram which used to be a 3 car 144 on the Airedale line in the AM peak was a 150+158 this morning

 

[prod_pep]

Just seen 323224 on the delayed 1110 WBQ-LIV, so one of the new 323 Liverpool diagrams does the 0713 CRE-LIV, 1000 LIV-WBQ, 1110 WBQ-LIV and 1228 LIV-CRE circuit.

 

[Harvey B]

Northern Connect seems to have gone very quiet. Sheffield - Hull has gone over to 170s, while the Leeds - Chester might not be getting 195s. Also 331s are bound to go on non-NC services as there is only one electrified NC route (Man Airport - Blackpool). For Northern Connect to work, stock allocation will have to be better than the current "random unit generator".

Apparently the NC services will use 195's and 158's. I doubt that a 150 or a 155 will run a NC service (but with Northern being Northern, you never know)

 

[156dom]

How do they manage at Kildale?

From memory a 156 barely fitted and 158s are a bit longer.

I am not too sure, it was a surprise when it turned up at Grosmont. I would like to know when a 158 is next down so I can take a trip on it to see how they manage the platforms

 

[startingaparty]

The 0721 service from Preston to Manchester Airport is now horrendous. I'm no expert on train classes but it used to be a six carriage TPE train but now it's a four carriage electrified Northern train and it is not enough. I've boarded at Buckshaw Parkway the past two mornings and had to stand the entire way until it began clearing at Deansgate. To add insult to injury they've added stops (Leyland, Adlington, Blackrod and Deansgate). When the train reached Bolton people were being told not to attempt to board. Why have they done this? Similarly, the 1801 from Manchester Piccadilly used to be a TPE train (operated by Northern) and that was six carriages and now it's a four carriage Northern one. I can't see customers being happy if it continues like this.

 

[Fedupnorthern]

Agreed that both trains are rammed. Slower and lower capacity is not what the punters want after 5 years. Still Northern Fail.

 

[Fedupnorthern]

And they are still not using Bolton platform loop for semi-fast overtaking. What is wrong with these people? Give them millions in investment and they still screw up.

 

[darloscott]

I am not too sure, it was a surprise when it turned up at Grosmont. I would like to know when a 158 is next down so I can take a trip on it to see how they manage the platforms

Every day on 1241 Newcastle to Whitby and return 1600 Whitby to Hexham

 

[td97]

The 0721 service from Preston to Manchester Airport is now horrendous. I'm no expert on train classes but it used to be a six carriage TPE train but now it's a four carriage electrified Northern train and it is not enough. When the train reached Bolton people were being told not to attempt to board. Similarly, the 1801 from Manchester Piccadilly used to be a TPE train (operated by Northern) and that was six carriages and now it's a four carriage Northern one. I can't see customers being happy if it continues like this.

Agreed that both trains are rammed. Slower and lower capacity is not what the punters want after 5 years. Still Northern Fail.

Aah, as was predicted last week, the peak 6x23m TPE hire-in service now replaced by a 4x20m train doesn't provide enough capacity. That evening peak ex-Manchester service must be a contender for the busiest service on the Bolton route.
The only faint glimmer of hope is that the 331s are due to operate that service, hopefully as 2*3 carriage trains (but that hasn't been confirmed).

Is a single 319 the booked traction for 1N63 as of next week? It's pre-TT change equivalent, 1C54 is booked 2*185 and it definitely needs both units; even on Saturdays the patronage is impressive. I presume with 2*331/0s taking over in July pending crew training?
Edit: to add 1C54 is 1742 Manchester Airport to Barrow (1 unit detaches at Preston); 1N63 is 1740 Airport to Blackpool North

 

[Greybeard33]

It's still diagrammed for an EMU, and is likely to remain so (since it operates entirely below OHLE). If there were enough EMUs to go round it would no doubt be EMU-operated - but there presumably aren't, at the moment.

Yet Northern JourneyCheck showed some DMU diagrams were short formed today. I do not understand why Northern cannot temporarily lease some of the stored ex-Thameslink 319s, to ensure that all 319 diagrams are EMU-operated.

 

[Mogster]

Yet Northern JourneyCheck showed some DMU diagrams were short formed today. I do not understand why Northern cannot temporarily lease some of the stored ex-Thameslink 319s, to ensure that all 319 diagrams are EMU-operated.

Because it would cost money?

I notice that the 16:49 airport - Blackpool Chat Moss service from Oxford Road to Wigan NW has disappeared. So we now have only 1 service from Oxford Road to Wigan between 16:00 and 17:00... sigh...

 

[Glenn1969]

it was cancelled today which won't help people's mood

The cancellation of the 1556 left no service from Oxford Road to Wigan NW between 1521 and 1754! Ouch

 

[Bovverboy]

I notice that the 16:49 airport - Blackpool Chat Moss service from Oxford Road to Wigan NW has disappeared. So we now have only 1 service from Oxford Road to Wigan between 16:00 and 17:00... sigh...

The replacement for the 1649 ex-MIA is 1634 MIA to Preston, via Bolton. It continues to be routed via Bolton after 1 June, when it gets extended to Barrow. I agree that's not much use for someone wanting Wigan, but there are other options available, by changing at Salford Crescent or Bolton, preferably the latter, I imagine.