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Northern timetable changes May 2019

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Mogster

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The trick is to walk the five mins up the road and board at Picc. I invariably get a seat from there no matter which service I'm catching. It's Oxford Road and onwards you get people standing, I agree.

The problem is it’s not 5 minutes, then you’ve got to trogg through the Piccadilly concourse and summit Castlefield viaduct. The buses don’t go that way from Longsight either. Everything drives past Oxford Road.
 
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HotelNovember

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A bit of a misleading response there, on my part, with the benefit of hindsight. Yes, a four-car DMU set has been covering an EMU duty this week, but, conversely, a Class 319 has been doing the one Airport to Preston via Chat Moss duty, which is diagrammed for DMU. So, swings and roundabouts.
Out of Northern's currently available 27 319s, 24 are scheduled for use on Mondays to Fridays (this doesn't include the one currently doing Airport to Preston). Three seems a likely number to be required for scheduled maintenance (the equivalent totals for 323s are 15 required for Monday to Friday use, 2 required for scheduled maintenance).
So the deployment of Northern's 27 319s seems to sum up as follows: 24 required for service Monday to Friday, 3 required for scheduled maintenance, nil general spare. Whether nil general spare should be considered sufficient leaves scope for argument!
Actually, by virtue of the logic that a DMU can work an EMU duty but not vice-versa (the current one exception is a consequence of unusual circumstances) I would be able to see the point of not keeping any EMU spare, and covering with DMU if needed. But that, of course, assumes that spare DMUs are available..

05:42 Wilmslow-Liverpool, 07:57 Liverpool-Man Vic etc, are booked DMU’s in the short term. Makes perfect sense to use them on that diagram and allows a 319 to do the Preston-Airport shuttle.

There are 14 323 diagrams at the moment.

A 323 will do a round trip to Wigan on a Saturday night.
 

geoffk

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05:42 Wilmslow-Liverpool, 07:57 Liverpool-Man Vic etc, are booked DMU’s in the short term. Makes perfect sense to use them on that diagram and allows a 319 to do the Preston-Airport shuttle.

There are 14 323 diagrams at the moment.

A 323 will do a round trip to Wigan on a Saturday night.
Are 323s likely to get to Blackpool? A 6 car-train from Bolton in the peaks seems to be needed.
 

Bovverboy

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Do you have the times for this working, please? I might try to catch it tomorrow night. Thanks.

According to RTT, it's 2300 Lime Street to Wigan, back ECS to Allerton. Previous journey 2043 Wilmslow to Lime Street.
 
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Mathew S

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The problem is it’s not 5 minutes, then you’ve got to trogg through the Piccadilly concourse and summit Castlefield viaduct. The buses don’t go that way from Longsight either. Everything drives past Oxford Road.
I don't know where in Longsight you work, obviously, but have you tried the 192? That would take you right to Piccadilly.
 

Bovverboy

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There are 14 323 diagrams at the moment.

'Thomas6187' did say there were going to be fifteen daily (M/F, presumably) diagrams for 323s on the current schedules, and fifteen is indeed the number I can account for. A possibility is that one of the diagrams he said was going to be 323-operated is actually being covered by a 319, but that wouldn't make particularly good sense when 319s seem to be in slightly shorter supply than 323s at the moment.

Next week it goes back up to 15 diagrams for the 323, including two more diagrams across Chat Moss. Departing Manchester they are 07:22, 08:22, 09:22, 10:22, 12:22, 17:23, 20:22 and 21:19.
 

Thomas6187

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I worked it out as 15, and a rough guide to what the diagrams roughly follow

LT 101 Hadfields + last Hazel Grove
LT 102 Peak Hadfields
LT 103 Morning Peak Alderley
LT 104 Crewe/Liverpools
LT 105 Crewe/Liverpools
LT 106 Peak Macc
LT 107 Stokes
LT 108 Peak Hadfield + Evening Stokes
LT 109 Crewe/Liverpools
LT 110 Crewe/Liverpools
LT 111 Crewe/Liverpools
LT 112 Stokes
LT 113 Day time Stokes
LT 114 Hadfields
LT 115 Hadfields

Edit: After the 01 July, the morning Alderley is worked by a Train from Newton Heath
 
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Bovverboy

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I worked it out as 15, and a rough guide to what the diagrams roughly follow

How come all the diagrams are coded 'LT' when only four units actually commence their day at Longsight? Does the code indicate where the units are nominally based, rather than where they're stabled?
 

Andy1673

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How come all the diagrams are coded 'LT' when only four units actually commence their day at Longsight? Does the code indicate where the units are nominally based, rather than where they're stabled?
Yes, this code shows units' allocation depot, most of diagrams are consecutive so that a unit off a diagram ending at <A> commence next day's diagram at <A>. An <A> can be the start and finish point for several diagrams.
 

Bovverboy

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Edit: After the 01 July, the morning Alderley is worked by a Train from Newton Heath

Looks like there could be a bit of a reshuffle in the offing, given that other changes are planned for 1 July. It certainly seems odd that a 323 should be replaced by a DMU when the 323s are pretty well the only type of train which Northern runs in the North West that is not currently in short supply.
 

prod_pep

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Looks like there could be a bit of a reshuffle in the offing, given that other changes are planned for 1 July. It certainly seems odd that a 323 should be replaced by a DMU when the 323s are pretty well the only type of train which Northern runs in the North West that is not currently in short supply.

It may tie-in with the start of 323 repainting and PRM mods.
 

Mogster

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I don't know where in Longsight you work, obviously, but have you tried the 192? That would take you right to Piccadilly.

Plymouth Grove. I have tried going to Piccadilly, it just adds time to my journey. My daily timings are pretty tight as it is but I prefer standing sometimes than getting home later.

Thanks though :)
 
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geoffk

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The movements at Castleford to accommodate the Huddersfield service seem rather convoluted... after arrival, the crews change ends and move out along the Pontefract-bound curve to free the platform for the Leeds to Sheffield service. The crew changes ends again and comes back to the platform to start the return journey, where they must change ends again. Presumably the signalling doesn't allow the unit to move out towards York, which would mean the crew only having to change ends once rather than three times.
I've been to Castleford today and watched this manoeuvre. The platform has been extended and would certainly have accommodated both the 153 on the Huddersfield service and the 150 on the Leeds - Sheffield (or even two 150s), but, as this would be a permissive working, would Network Rail sanction it?
 

Glenn1969

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How is the Castleford service doing loadings wise? I had heard that usage of that train had dropped since it was terminated at Kirkgate presumably because Huddersfield pax were using it to get to LNER and XC at Westgate
 

geoffk

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How is the Castleford service doing loadings wise? I had heard that usage of that train had dropped since it was terminated at Kirkgate presumably because Huddersfield pax were using it to get to LNER and XC at Westgate
I was on the 1003 from Huddersfield. Three or four travelled across Wakefield and they didn't look like track-bashers.
There's no publicity for this service at Castleford station. The timetable sheets displayed there show only the two well-established services, Leeds - Sheffield and Leeds - Knottingley. Other than the customer information screen (which gives just a list of departures) there is no mention of the Huddersfield service and perhaps not many people in the town are aware of it. I don't know what Metro or Northern have done locally.
 

Glenn1969

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I know they are supposed to be improving Castleford station if they can decide how to fund it. Hopefully usage will grow with time
 

Philip

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Have Northern completely finished with 185s now? Also is there much chance of seeing even an occasional 185 in service on the Bolton route (working to Scotland)?
 

61653 HTAFC

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Another planet...
Metro barely do any publicity these days, and they seem far too submissive to the whims of First/Arriva/Transdev (though Stagecoach not so much!). I gaze jealously at my neighbours in TfGM and Travel South Yorkshire country!
 

Mathew S

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Have Northern completely finished with 185s now? Also is there much chance of seeing even an occasional 185 in service on the Bolton route (working to Scotland)?
Unless things have changed, there are still occasional 185 operated diagrams to Scotland (effectively covering for the 350 which had to be taken out of service when it lost an argument with some horses on the line). But you are correct, Northern are no longer hiring in the 185s from TPE, so there should be no more 185 operated Northern services, sadly.
 

Bovverboy

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Have Northern completely finished with 185s now? Also is there much chance of seeing even an occasional 185 in service on the Bolton route (working to Scotland)?

Unless things have changed, there are still occasional 185 operated diagrams to Scotland (effectively covering for the 350 which had to be taken out of service when it lost an argument with some horses on the line). But you are correct, Northern are no longer hiring in the 185s from TPE, so there should be no more 185 operated Northern services, sadly.

185s have always been employed on the Scottish services, even since the arrival of the 350s, simply because the 350s alone can't provide sufficient total capacity on Fridays/Saturdays/Sundays when some diagrams are covered by double units. This was the situation even before 350403's incident, so there certainly aren't going to be any fewer 185s on the Scottish services, there may be more.

P.S. In the 350403 v horses incident, it was the horses which lost the argument, but 350403 didn't come off completely unscathed.
 

geoffk

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A feature of recent changes is the greatly improved service to Church Fenton and Sherburn-in-Elmet. The former has a better than hourly service to York (30 trains a day, in fact) and hourly non-stop to Leeds. Sherburn gets most of the hourly York - Hull trains, which take this route rather than the faster and more direct route via the Hambleton curve. I assume this route is taken mainly because of pathing issues on the ECML.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I have noticed that the short Sundays Only Preston - Hellifield working at 15:35 and the 10:30 Hellifield - Preston working do not appear on the GWR booking website when I checked for today and next Sunday.

Do both of the above trains exist, as I have found those on the PSUL website? It is noted that the Sundays Only Blackpool - Carlisle via Clitheroe and return are still shown, and appear in journey planners on booking engines.
 

Kite159

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A feature of recent changes is the greatly improved service to Church Fenton and Sherburn-in-Elmet. The former has a better than hourly service to York (30 trains a day, in fact) and hourly non-stop to Leeds. Sherburn gets most of the hourly York - Hull trains, which take this route rather than the faster and more direct route via the Hambleton curve. I assume this route is taken mainly because of pathing issues on the ECML.

Although a bit rubbish if you want Micklefield or stations towards Leeds (as the Leeds - York stoppers don't call at Church Fenton).
 

Deerfold

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I have noticed that the short Sundays Only Preston - Hellifield working at 15:35 and the 10:30 Hellifield - Preston working do not appear on the GWR booking website when I checked for today and next Sunday.

Do both of the above trains exist, as I have found those on the PSUL website? It is noted that the Sundays Only Blackpool - Carlisle via Clitheroe and return are still shown, and appear in journey planners on booking engines.

These trains do not run in Summer. The Winter Blackpool North to Hellifield train continues to Carlisle in Summer rather than running back to Preston. Similarly, it starts from Carlisle instead of coming from Preston in the evening.
 

Tractor37

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An East Coast service through Castleford. I've never heard of such a working in my 19 years at Leeds.
 

clagmonster

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Have Northern completely finished with 185s now? Also is there much chance of seeing even an occasional 185 in service on the Bolton route (working to Scotland)?
Unless things have changed, there are still occasional 185 operated diagrams to Scotland (effectively covering for the 350 which had to be taken out of service when it lost an argument with some horses on the line). But you are correct, Northern are no longer hiring in the 185s from TPE, so there should be no more 185 operated Northern services, sadly.
Whilst there are no Northern 185 hire ins in the North West, the 05:59 and 21:04 Cleethorpes - Barton services and associated returns are still booked to be a hired in 185 and indeed have gained New Clee request stops on three out of four workings. These should become Abellio East Midlands Railway services on 19th August.
 
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