Nowadays it seems that if X units are reqd to run a a service the bean counters order X+1 as if it isnt moving it isn't making money
That's exactly what they do, and why not?
It's a business.
Nowadays it seems that if X units are reqd to run a a service the bean counters order X+1 as if it isnt moving it isn't making money
I am not suggesting actually adopting Virgin's proposal but elements of it and Eurostar's approach could be phased in on the busiest intercity routes as a way of handling increased growth in intercity travel. Funding would not be an issue if it was a response to growing passenger numbers.
it's a different thing if you had passengers turned away from services because of no booked seat with no other way of them getting home or somewhere safe?
It's a valid point, passenger numbers way up, fares have risen faster than inflation, some operators, notably ECML, still have just the same stock they had 20 years ago - so where has the money gone.Passenger numbers have doubled over the last 20 years. Using your theory there should’ve been plenty of money washing around.
It's a valid point, passenger numbers way up, fares have risen faster than inflation, some operators, notably ECML, still have just the same stock they had 20 years ago - so where has the money gone.
Not aware of overbooking on low cost airlines.Never seen it myself. I think it is worth having the conversation re Virgins proposal but it would take a see change in organisation and working practices for such a scheme to work.We don't want trains running around with fresh air nor do we want trains with few carriages that cause overcrowding. Do we design a network for London centric only? It's a choice to live in Market Harborough and daily commute to London. Do we have to design our train patterns for the few who long distance commute or do we put up with the shocking 2 carriage X country Brum to Stansted, which happens frequently. Changes are required for the future of our railways, and everything should be up for discussion. The desires of Manchester to London passengers are different to those commuting from Milton Keynes.The question is do you try and come up with a solution which is workable for the majority or do we do nothing. The Saver and Open Tickets are not sacrosanct to the solution, in my opinion.So between Derby and Chesterfield the only services that run are intercity services (East Midlands Trains 222's and XC's 221's).
The only services between Nottingham, Derby, Burton-On-Trent and Birmingham are intercity services.
In fact, my old hometown of Long Eaton's connections to Derby/Nottingham are mostly served by intercity services.
TGV runs on dedicated lines, replacing the existing infrastructure, the UK does not. Frankly Virgin's proposal is a solution to a problem no-one asked for and creates more issues than it resolves. I strongly believe that the UK's nationwide walk-up fare system is one of few things our rail system does better than everyone else and despite a few quirks with split-ticketing, etc it offers good flexibility and simplicity for passengers.
Also airline ticketing is not a perfect world of guaranteed seats for everyone. Overbooking is a thing and passengers are not always allowed on the flight, or they get dragged off kicking and screaming United style!
We will recall that, at the end of BR, Inter City was breaking even, including proper attribution of infrastructure (which went to private Railtrack) and overhead costs. If it hadn't been, it's unlikely sufficient interest would have been shown in the first privatisation proposals.It's difficult to operate railways profitably. It's just made them, er, less unprofitable.
And as soon as you replace trains or build infrastructure, another financial hole is created. Hence more passengers will only mean more profit until action is taken to properly cope with those passengers.It's difficult to operate railways profitably. It's just made them, er, less unprofitable.
TOC profit margins are tiny compared with running buses - typically well under 5%, whereas I'm sure I recall First define "worth bothering with" as a margin of about 12%.
The desires of Manchester to London passengers are different to those commuting from Milton Keynes.
They may not be sacrosanct as ticketing entities, but the ability to travel at times that the passenger needs as opposed to the time that the TOC wants to limit travellers to for their own revenue maximisation purposes on a publicly owned railway is a fundamental requisite of the overall UK public transport system. That flexibility should continue to be available up to the passenger's arrival at the station.... The Saver and Open Tickets are not sacrosanct to the solution, in my opinion.
They may not be sacrosanct as ticketing entities, but the ability to travel at times that the passenger needs as opposed to the time that the TOC wants to limit travellers to for their own revenue maximisation purposes on a publicly owned railway is a fundamental requisite of the overall UK public transport system. That flexibility should continue to be available up to the passenger's arrival at the station.
I think those in favour of the scheme would argue that their scheme is intended to benefit passengers. Which it arguably does, but at the cost of the opportunity to become a passenger.
Restricting freedom can't really be argued as beneficial.
It's a valid point, passenger numbers way up, fares have risen faster than inflation, some operators, notably ECML, still have just the same stock they had 20 years ago - so where has the money gone.
That may be so in other countries but I did qualify the need for flexibility:Ironically quite a lot of publically owned railways (such as the execrable SNCF) operate compulsory reservations. ...
How practical is it for this proposal to actually be accepted or that it could or would viably happen? Pull into Coventry on a VT service in the peak and customers often pour on in droves. Are they to be confined to the semi fast operator only? Wouldn't the other operator then be entitled to all the revenue from the flexible ticket? Is it proposed that the non VT operator could and would have to cope with all the walk up passengers while the main intercity operator turned away non reserved passengers? Would the system cope? Would there be confrontations and people running up to guards on every service asking for permissions to board?
Is this a common occurrence at airports and coach stations? Why would it happen ah railway stations?
You might have noticed the difference between the staffing and security levels at airports vs. railway stations.
You might similarly have noticed the difference between the number of passengers on a coach and a train, which would give rise to a different size of baying mob.
Is this a common occurrence at airports and coach stations? Why would it happen ah railway stations?
It's a valid point, passenger numbers way up, fares have risen faster than inflation, some operators, notably ECML, still have just the same stock they had 20 years ago - so where has the money gone.
For peak time services, I think seat reservations should be compulsory.
Then even if the system goes down (as virgin's does 50% of the time) at least people know they will be guaranteed their seat. Passengers these days just can't self police.
I really hope that the suggestion for reservation-only travel is taken seriously.
I'm currently on the Virgin 1830 Euston to Glasgow. It is horrifically overcrowded, and they cancelled the seat reservations - the guard says it was technical issues, the Twitter team says the reservations were cancelled on purpose due to the overcrowding. It has been absolute hell - I saw a woman threatening a couple with the police due to them sitting in her seat! You can barely move through the train due to the people standing, and it was delayed due to safety concerns.
For peak time services, I think seat reservations should be compulsory. Then even if the system goes down (as virgin's does 50% of the time) at least people know they will be guaranteed their seat. Passengers these days just can't self police.
Luckily I know it's an issue so I always get to the platform early using RTT, but sitting in this atmosphere of people nearly coming to blows is terrible.
Do virgin offer compensation when seat reservations aren't honoured by the way?
At Stansted, You be turfed out and direct to the airport Hotel. I have landed late at Stansted missing the last train to March (Before 9pm). More or less everything is closed and you are rushed to the exit.This latter point is very relevant - kipping on an airport might not be fun, but airport terminals generally stay open all night and are heated, well-staffed and definitely safe places. Railway stations often are and do not.