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East Midlands Trains - diversionary route / transport

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matacaster

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I've bought first class tickets from St Pancras to Wakefield @14.40 on Sunday 2nd June. Had I looked more carefully, I might have noticed that it is scheduled to take 4hr 26m for the journey - (this may well be a record). A quick check reveals that Wakefield Westgate is closed due to engineering work, but there doesn't appear to be any explanation as to what part of the journey will be by train, what part by coach, whether there are other diversion in place other than around Wakefield and what I can expect for my 1st Class ticket.

Can anyone enlighten me as to the route inc diversions and which bits are train and which coach- or heaven forbid is it all by coach?
 
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yorksrob

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Doesn't look like any coach replacements from NRE.

I've had some lovely long diversions on that route in the past, sometimes getting over four hours.

Could be via Doncaster, via the old road, or, if you're lucky, over the Harringworth arches.

My advice is to sit back in your armchair and enjoy the ride :)
 

MichaelAMW

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I've bought first class tickets from St Pancras to Wakefield @14.40 on Sunday 2nd June. Had I looked more carefully, I might have noticed that it is scheduled to take 4hr 26m for the journey - (this may well be a record). A quick check reveals that Wakefield Westgate is closed due to engineering work, but there doesn't appear to be any explanation as to what part of the journey will be by train, what part by coach, whether there are other diversion in place other than around Wakefield and what I can expect for my 1st Class ticket.

Can anyone enlighten me as to the route inc diversions and which bits are train and which coach- or heaven forbid is it all by coach?

The MML is closed all next week through Market Harborough, while they install the new station. You will be going via Corby to get to Leicester, you have a wait at Kettering, and because of the reduced number of trains running it's also 'slow' from London to Leicester. There's a bunch of pathing allowances in there too.
 

WesternLancer

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Yes, great views over the Harringworth viaduct (sit on western side of train going north from Corby IIRC, facing forwards) then good views east and west as you go over. One of the highlights you will be treated to. Check an online OS map eg streetmap.co.uk for an idea.

Some people would pay extra for that, esp if in an HST!

Train will reverse direction at Leicester on this routing.

1st class at weekend is only free tea / coffee and biscuits I think (you could have the whole upgrade for just £12 EMT w/e 1st) and you get them from the buffet counter by showing your 1st class ticket - no at seat service at weekend on EMT.

Given duration of journey I would take some picnic food tho - not unheard of for EMT buffets to be low or not stocked with food due to organisational failures or set swaps, and 4 hours plus if hungry is no fun.

1st class seats are original HST build design, comfy but not as plush as eg LNER, so savour the design history and BR origin interior. Won't be around for long.

IMHO you have made a good ticket purchase!
 

WesternLancer

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1st class offer as EMT describe it (read carefully to understand what you get when it's sunday - as per my post above really, not much.
https://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.u...irst-class-train-travel/#First-Class-Weekend-

Pretty sure you can use the 1st class lounge at St P too, assuming it is open

It has 2 and a half 1st class carriages.
Usually one carriage, and sometimes the buffet car 1st class seating area (the old restaurant car area), is left mostly unreserved in 1st class - with all the discounted reservations in the other full carriage. So I sit in the unreserved one (usually Coach H) as usually more space and less people in that one / noise. They are not bothered if you are not in your allocated '1st Advance seat' in my experience, tho of course you must be on the correct train it is booked on.

EMT HSTs seem a bit 'bouncy' sometimes so I'd advocate sitting towards the middle of the 1st class carriage for greater comfort, as opposed to sitting over the bogies.

Plug sockets fitted and free wifi provided in 1st class seating area of their HSTs (not in standard class)
 

yorksrob

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I'm quite envious of the OP.

It's been donkeys years since I've got a daylight diversion over Harringworth. Probably never get to do it in an HST again :(

I would agree with the above poster - bring some provisions for the journey.
 

WesternLancer

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I'm quite envious of the OP.

It's been donkeys years since I've got a daylight diversion over Harringworth. Probably never get to do it in an HST again :(

I would agree with the above poster - bring some provisions for the journey.
These diversions are I think for duration of period 28th to 2nd june so you might get a chance. Not all trains thru to W Yorks tho, but plenty from Sheffield altho they may not be HSTs EMT have published a full replacement paper timetable for the period (can't find pdf tho) - so u may have a chance?
 

yorksrob

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These diversions are I think for duration of period 28th to 2nd june so you might get a chance. Not all trains thru to W Yorks tho, but plenty from Sheffield altho they may not be HSTs EMT have published a full replacement paper timetable for the period (can't find pdf tho) - so u may have a chance?

Alas, while I tend to go that way every couple of months, I don't have anything booked for the time being.
 

WesternLancer

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There's some def v cheap adv 1st tickets over the viaduct to Kettering that w/e with EMT at the mo - eg £8 from east mids cities for example by the looks of it if thse are HSTs that's a good trip.
 

cactustwirly

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Done it a few times on a HST, it's a nice journey but a lot slower than the normal route.
I think the speed over Harringworth viaduct is only something like 30mph

I wouldn't worry about first class being full, last time I did weekend first, I was the only passenger in the entire HST first class section.

Not sure I would upgrade to 1st personally as all you get is Tea and biscuits, and the seats aren't particularly comfortable
 

WesternLancer

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Done it a few times on a HST, it's a nice journey but a lot slower than the normal route.
I think the speed over Harringworth viaduct is only something like 30mph

I wouldn't worry about first class being full, last time I did weekend first, I was the only passenger in the entire HST first class section.

Not sure I would upgrade to 1st personally as all you get is Tea and biscuits, and the seats aren't particularly comfortable
OP already has 1st class ticket- bought 1st advance St P - Wakefield and was asking what he would get for the money, hence my response. If they are selling cheap 1st advance tickets - as they are - I would expect at least 1 carriage to be fully booked. Some diversions weekends on MML they do not release Advance quotas and then as you say often fairly empty.

I was on an EMT HST at 06.45 start of jny the other sat morning, they'd filled most of a 1st class coach even at that hour. They have got the pricing model right to sell their 1st class seats IMHO.

One thing you do get of course is all the seats lining up with the windows, not the case in std, tho it's not too bad.
 

class 9

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It's being diverted via Corby, Oakham & Melton Mowbray, then reversing at Leicester.
No diversions in the Wakefield area, going booked route.
 

yorksrob

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Not sure I would upgrade to 1st personally as all you get is Tea and biscuits, and the seats aren't particularly comfortable

I suppose its a matter of taste, but I find them to be the most comfortable seats on the entire network !
 

matacaster

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Thanks folks, some good advice and sounds like I'll have a pretty good time to me. I have gently hinted to wife that it might take a 'little longer' than the up journey on Saturday via ECML scheduled for around 1hr 59 or so!
 

Qwerty133

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The obvious patching issues in various places show yet again why EMT shouldn't be running through services when the line is closed. It would be much better for the services to be split at Leicester so that the more favourable normal paths north thereof can be used rather than whatever fits around everyone else and ends up with several long waits.
 

WesternLancer

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The obvious patching issues in various places show yet again why EMT shouldn't be running through services when the line is closed. It would be much better for the services to be split at Leicester so that the more favourable normal paths north thereof can be used rather than whatever fits around everyone else and ends up with several long waits.
I suspect most passengers would rather sit down and stay on one train tbh, even if jny slower. EMT sunday services are never that rapid after all....:D
 

WesternLancer

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Thanks folks, some good advice and sounds like I'll have a pretty good time to me. I have gently hinted to wife that it might take a 'little longer' than the up journey on Saturday via ECML scheduled for around 1hr 59 or so!
and surely the funds saved on the cheap EMT tickets can be an added incentive for a future retail spree....
Pack a good book!
 

Steve Harris

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Those going to and from London may prefer it but the significant numbers travelling solely north of Leicester certainly do not.
Now.... What's that saying....

You can please some of the people, some of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time !
 

Qwerty133

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Now.... What's that saying....

You can please some of the people, some of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time !
Maybe please those who have no choice but to travel on an EMT service and whose journeys needn't be changed at all rather than those with alternatives that take half the time but cost slightly more.
 

yorksrob

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The obvious patching issues in various places show yet again why EMT shouldn't be running through services when the line is closed. It would be much better for the services to be split at Leicester so that the more favourable normal paths north thereof can be used rather than whatever fits around everyone else and ends up with several long waits.

This is a view completely at odds with what I, and I suspect the vast majority of the travelling public think.
 

43074

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This is a view completely at odds with what I, and I suspect the vast majority of the travelling public think.

Seconded, most customers on the Mainline are going to/from London, and I recall passenger focus did some research showing passengers would rather their train was diverted than having to use a replacement bus.
 

43055

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This is a view completely at odds with what I, and I suspect the vast majority of the travelling public think.
That most likely correct. I have used the MML on Sunday for work and the most of the train were through passengers to London. I would always prefer to use EMT than XC to get to Chippenham even if it takes longer.

The obvious patching issues in various places show yet again why EMT shouldn't be running through services when the line is closed. It would be much better for the services to be split at Leicester so that the more favourable normal paths north thereof can be used rather than whatever fits around everyone else and ends up with several long waits.
Where are these long waits? The only ones I can think of is Leicester when the train reverses to go via Corby.
 

30907

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That most likely correct. I have used the MML on Sunday for work and the most of the train were through passengers to London. I would always prefer to use EMT than XC to get to Chippenham even if it takes longer.


Where are these long waits? The only ones I can think of is Leicester when the train reverses to go via Corby.
The Leeds train referred to had IIRC 6min at Derby, 10 at Sheffield and 5 pathing at Moorthorpe. So maybe 15min more than the fastest possible - but that really only affects pax going beyond SHF.
 

43055

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The Leeds train referred to had IIRC 6min at Derby, 10 at Sheffield and 5 pathing at Moorthorpe. So maybe 15min more than the fastest possible - but that really only affects pax going beyond SHF.
That service falls into the path of a normal London - Sheffield service from Leicester. The 6 min at Derby is to allow for a cross country to go north at 1748. North of Sheffield this time its a additional service. There is a departure at 1831 to Leeds via Moorthorpe so the 10 min wait is probably to allow time clear for the EMT service.
 

Belperpete

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Seconded, most customers on the Mainline are going to/from London, and I recall passenger focus did some research showing passengers would rather their train was diverted than having to use a replacement bus.
Qwerty was NOT proposing replacement buses. What he was proposing was that EMT should run the normal timetable north of Leicester, as this part of the route is unaffected. Agreed that the majority of passengers are to/from London, but there are a significant number of passengers who travel between Leicester and stations northward, e.g. those connecting to and from XC and Stansted services. There is no need for them to suffer a reduced timetable. Only services south of Leicester need run to an amended timetable due to the diversion. What Qwerty was suggesting was that the MML should be run in two halves, normal timetable to the north of Leicester, diversionary timetable to the south, with through passengers changing at Leicester. No buses.

The problem I can see with his suggestion would be platform capacity at Leicester. With all services from the north and all services from the south terminating at Leicester, in addition to the XCs and Stansteds, there would be a lot of trains starting/terminating in those four platforms.

Even if the trains from the south were run through, rather than terminating, they would take up extra platform capacity, while the driver changes end and the train waits for its normal timetabled path northwards. This I suspect is the reason the timetable north of Leicester has also been thinned out: the reduced number of through services are using up the available platform capacity at Leicester due them having to reverse and wait their booked path.
 

yorksrob

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Qwerty was NOT proposing replacement buses. What he was proposing was that EMT should run the normal timetable north of Leicester, as this part of the route is unaffected. Agreed that the majority of passengers are to/from London, but there are a significant number of passengers who travel between Leicester and stations northward, e.g. those connecting to and from XC and Stansted services. There is no need for them to suffer a reduced timetable. Only services south of Leicester need run to an amended timetable due to the diversion. What Qwerty was suggesting was that the MML should be run in two halves, normal timetable to the north of Leicester, diversionary timetable to the south, with through passengers changing at Leicester. No buses.

The problem I can see with his suggestion would be platform capacity at Leicester. With all services from the north and all services from the south terminating at Leicester, in addition to the XCs and Stansteds, there would be a lot of trains starting/terminating in those four platforms.

Even if the trains from the south were run through, rather than terminating, they would take up extra platform capacity, while the driver changes end and the train waits for its normal timetabled path northwards. This I suspect is the reason the timetable north of Leicester has also been thinned out: the reduced number of through services are using up the available platform capacity at Leicester due them having to reverse and wait their booked path.

I strongly suspect that there are more people travelling between London and places like Leicester, Loughborough etc than doing self contained journeys in the Midlands. I see little point in turfing them all out at Leicester to wait for another train.
 
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