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Expansions for Scotland's rail network proposed

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JLUK144

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The tracks are back to standard spacing (or nearly) at the road, so you won't get access to an island from there. The curved track is proably also too curved for a new platform.
I’d say the best place for access would be through a car park and then a footbridge onto the platform.
 
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Altnabreac

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Wasn’t sure if this justified a whole new topic (if so feel free to move), but I was wondering: With all the new housing being built on the southeast of Barrhead, could there be a case to finally build Lyoncross railway station? This would provide a railway station closer to a large part of Barrhead, and it wouldn’t be that detrimental to the Neilston line timings, since it would only introduce one stop before the terminus on an otherwise long interrupted stretch of track. Also since the track is already split there, it would presumably involve less Earth works to build. This is just idle curiosity on my part, I haven’t done any BCR analysis!

As others have said there are plans for a new station at Auchenback around half a mile further west than Lyoncross. This is a relatively advanced project, with City Deal money. Given the current pattern of development in the area, the proposed Auchenback location is almost certainly more useful than the historic Lyoncross location.
 

Tormod

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Any other ridiculous reopenings we'd like to discuss when we're at it? Dumfries-Stranraer is the usual one when we're tired of Strathmore. I quite fancy Dunblane-Crianlarich tonight, it goes through some nice scenery.

If anyone on here wants to campaign for £750m or whatever for a longer distance Scottish reopening that would serve some real regeneration need amongst a decent population, and avoid more wasteful road building, then I'd like to point them in the direction of Dyce to Peterhead and Fraserburgh. It could even follow the original route to please the nostalgists amongst us.
Actually, Dumfries-Stranraer is a must IF a fixed Link to Northern Ireland is instituted. As is a road link to M74. Now that would be a mega project!
 

Clayton

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Actually, Dumfries-Stranraer is a must IF a fixed Link to Northern Ireland is instituted. As is a road link to M74. Now that would be a mega project!
There would never be a bridge to Northern Ireland! Apart from the cost and lack of need think of the politics
 

Class 170101

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There would never be a bridge to Northern Ireland! Apart from the cost and lack of need think of the politics

How far is Scotland from Northern Ireland at the shortest (viable) point compared with Denmark and Sweden?
 

MadMac

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I believe the problem with trying to link Scotland to NI is the large amount of decaying munitions dumped in the sea.....
 

najaB

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I believe the problem with trying to link Scotland to NI is the large amount of decaying munitions dumped in the sea.....
As well as the deceptively deep water into which the munitions were dumped!
 

RLBH

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I believe the problem with trying to link Scotland to NI is the large amount of decaying munitions dumped in the sea.....
The munitions are irrelevant compared to the depth, and the complete lack of an economic case for it.
 

najaB

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The munitions are irrelevant compared to the depth, and the complete lack of an economic case for it.
I wouldn't say irrelevant - the Beaufort Dyke is one of the largest munition dumps in the Western Hemisphere. But yes, the fact that it's over 200m deep is the main challenge.
 

NotATrainspott

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The Irish Sea fixed link will always suffer from the fact that there is a misalignment between the shortest, easiest and most useful routes, unlike the Channel. Dover to Calais is simultaneously short and useful, since it provides a fairly direct and natural routing for any truck traffic between most of the UK and Ireland, and most of the continent.

The most useful route for an Irish Sea crossing would be Dublin to Holyhead, as it'd be fairly in-line with general traffic flows and would link the population and economic centre of the island of Ireland (NI included) with the population and economic centre of Great Britain. The problem then is that you need the longest of the fixed links on top of massively enhanced corridor specifications along the north coast of Wales. In my view, we'd really be talking about two fixed links with Holyhead acting as a natural island join and intermediate access between them, as you wouldn't want to dump a new motorway along the North Wales coast. Any shuttle terminals would be near Dublin, obviously, but then quite inland in the Cheshire-Lancashire area.

In any case, it's well beyond the scope of Scottish rail network expansions now!
 

Clayton

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The Irish Sea fixed link will always suffer from the fact that there is a misalignment between the shortest, easiest and most useful routes, unlike the Channel. Dover to Calais is simultaneously short and useful, since it provides a fairly direct and natural routing for any truck traffic between most of the UK and Ireland, and most of the continent.

The most useful route for an Irish Sea crossing would be Dublin to Holyhead, as it'd be fairly in-line with general traffic flows and would link the population and economic centre of the island of Ireland (NI included) with the population and economic centre of Great Britain. The problem then is that you need the longest of the fixed links on top of massively enhanced corridor specifications along the north coast of Wales. In my view, we'd really be talking about two fixed links with Holyhead acting as a natural island join and intermediate access between them, as you wouldn't want to dump a new motorway along the North Wales coast. Any shuttle terminals would be near Dublin, obviously, but then quite inland in the Cheshire-Lancashire area.

In any case, it's well beyond the scope of Scottish rail network expansions now!
We don’t needs fixed link to Ireland! And most of the Irish won’t want a fixed link to Britain!!
 

Tormod

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There would never be a bridge to Northern Ireland! Apart from the cost and lack of need think of the politics
Wouldn't say never, as a number of projects have been mooted, of which this is one. See Wikipaedia. But unlikely, I agree. And certain;y not funded entirely from TS, whether in CP or any other!
 

kylemore

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Could any of these "fantasy" re-openings be built as "light railways" (does that legislation still exist?) or narrow gauge? The swiss don't seem to mind transferring onto different gauges where necessary with well planned connections etc.

Metre gauge from Dunblane to Crianlarich with light scenic railcars, Swiss style, would be an enormous tourist attraction but would also perform a useful transport function connecting Callander to the national network at Dunblane. The Callander section could be constructed first to try out the concept.

No doubt this will be regarded as fantastical nonsense by many on here, but why is it not regarded as fantastical nonsense in Switzerland - whose rail operations make Scotland's look like the amateur half hour!
 

och aye

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Apologies for posting an on-topic post. :lol:

https://www.scottishconstructionnow...ll-awarded-new-aberdeenshire-station-contract

Network Rail has appointed BAM Nuttall as the main contractor for the construction of the new Kintore station.

bam-nr-generic-1035x545_2.jpg


The £14.5 million station will reconnect Kintore to the rail network for the first time in 56 years.

Funded by Transport Scotland, Aberdeenshire Council and Nestrans, the new station will have step-free access between platforms through a footbridge with lifts.

Providing an interchange between rail and road, the station will have around 170 car parking spaces, bike storage and connect into the local bus network.

The station will be constructed over the next 12 months and is due to enter service in May 2020. All Aberdeen-Inverness trains will call at the station.

The original Kintore station opened in 1854, but closed in 1964 as part of the Beeching cuts.

Reopening Kintore has been made possible by the double-tracking of the line between Aberdeen-Inverurie delivered as part of the Aberdeen-Inverness Improvement Project.
 

route:oxford

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Could any of these "fantasy" re-openings be built as "light railways" (does that legislation still exist?) or narrow gauge? The swiss don't seem to mind transferring onto different gauges where necessary with well planned connections etc.

Metre gauge from Dunblane to Crianlarich with light scenic railcars, Swiss style, would be an enormous tourist attraction but would also perform a useful transport function connecting Callander to the national network at Dunblane. The Callander section could be constructed first to try out the concept.

No doubt this will be regarded as fantastical nonsense by many on here, but why is it not regarded as fantastical nonsense in Switzerland - whose rail operations make Scotland's look like the amateur half hour!

There are many people on here and beyond who strongly believe that the DD&C should never have closed.

It was a relatively flat, well engineered line with a single level crossing at Doune. Everything else, even the most basic farm crossings, were bridged.

The line could readily have operated as a single track with terminus at Callander and a two platform station at Doune to allow services to cross.

However, any prospect of a reopening was sealed around 1984 when Springbank Mill was redeveloped for housing and residential development was built across the former tracks. Further building has since taken place in Dunblane & Doune.

It's a real shame that the late Lord Doune, 20th Earl of Moray wasn't a bit of a steam train buff - thing might have been very different!
 

edwin_m

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Could any of these "fantasy" re-openings be built as "light railways" (does that legislation still exist?) or narrow gauge? The swiss don't seem to mind transferring onto different gauges where necessary with well planned connections etc.

Metre gauge from Dunblane to Crianlarich with light scenic railcars, Swiss style, would be an enormous tourist attraction but would also perform a useful transport function connecting Callander to the national network at Dunblane. The Callander section could be constructed first to try out the concept.

No doubt this will be regarded as fantastical nonsense by many on here, but why is it not regarded as fantastical nonsense in Switzerland - whose rail operations make Scotland's look like the amateur half hour!
The LR Act itself is no longer in force, but you can adopt any operating regime you like within the framework of the ROGS regulations, providing you can convince yourself and an independent assessor that you are safe enough. It's likely you'd need a TAWS order (Scottish equivalent of TWA) but the good news is it gets signed off by the Scottish government so doesn't get anywhere near Grayling's desk.
 

Southsider

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I would be in favour of doubling the track beyond Busby, as this would be a big help in providing timetable robustness.

The present infrastructure only just about works when the frequency is doubled to every 15 minutes in the direction of the Monday - Friday peak flows, and if there are any delays beyond Busby on the single track section, the EK bound trains have to wait at Busby until the Glasgow bound train has arrived. This leads to the rest of the service along the line running with delays.
Would a second platform at East Kilbride negate the need for double tracking? It’s only ten minutes from Busby to EK (would be less with 1/3, 2/3 door rolling stock, the 156 dwell time is awful) so one train leaving immediately after another’s arrival could, in theory, support regular four trains per hour and also reduce platform occupancy at Central. I appreciate it would need to work in with other diagrams but may be preferable to trying to lay a second track where none has existed before.
 

Clansman

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Any other ridiculous reopenings we'd like to discuss when we're at it?
I must admit I am a sucker for the future St. Enoch HSR idea - it's one of the more logical ones with a reasonable enough argument behind it.

On that subject though, are there, if any, draft proposals floating about that illustrate how capacity at Queen Street and Central would be expanded to cope with post 2040 demand - particularly in anticipation of future HSR?

If I remember rightly, studies such as the SRS don't go into much examination as to the impact that predicted post-2040 service and network improvement proposals would have on both Glasgow termini in relation to station infrastructural improvements. Long term it seems unlikely at a glance that both stations in their current forms would suffice, by any stretch of imagination, without substantial need for long term capacity solutions.
 

EMU303

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I must admit I am a sucker for the future St. Enoch HSR idea - it's one of the more logical ones with a reasonable enough argument behind it.

On that subject though, are there, if any, draft proposals floating about that illustrate how capacity at Queen Street and Central would be expanded to cope with post 2040 demand - particularly in anticipation of future HSR?

If I remember rightly, studies such as the SRS don't go into much examination as to the impact that predicted post-2040 service and network improvement proposals would have on both Glasgow termini in relation to station infrastructural improvements. Long term it seems unlikely at a glance that both stations in their current forms would suffice, by any stretch of imagination, without substantial need for long term capacity solutions.

Think this is the link to David Beggs’ recent report for Glasgow City Council which covers your questions
https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=23513
 

och aye

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Probably other lines ahead of the Borders to get electrified?

Scottish Government is considering plans to electrify the Borders Railway


https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...ns-to-electrify-the-borders-railway-1-4948207

Electrification of the Borders Railway to cut journey times is being considered by the Scottish Government, The Scotsman has learned.

The upgrade is also thought likely to improve reliability and could enable more frequent trains on the Edinburgh-Tweedbank line.

The latest ScotRail electric trains could run on the route to replace the current carriages which are among the operator’s oldest and least reliable.

These have the potential for reducing the hour-long journey by being able to accelerate faster from stations and up to the 880ft Falahill summit, south of Gorebridge, which is the tenth highest in Britain.

Adding overhead electric wires to the 35-mile line would also be much easier than on many routes because it was “future-proofed” for such a development.

Space was left under bridges and in tunnels for the wires to be added when the railway was built four years ago.

The Scottish Government’s Transport Scotland agency confirmed the scheme was being examined.

A spokesperson said: “We remain committed to a rolling programme of electrification, and are working with Network Rail to identify the next Scottish electrification scheme.

“Several routes are under consideration.

“Electrification of Scotland’s railway network is a key component of the Scottish Government’s commitment to improving rail services and tackling climate change.”

A Network Rail spokesperson said: “We are working closely with the Scottish Government to identify opportunities to extend electrification and the faster, more reliable and greener journeys it brings.”

The Campaign for Borders Rail welcomed the news but said other improvements were also needed. Chairman Simon Walton said: “Positive news of electrification, no matter how early in the process, is very encouraging for the railway, and for our ambition to see the line extended through Hawick to Carlisle.

“It’s better for the railway, particularly given the challenging topography. Electrification would offer better reliability and capacity, with newer and faster trains.

“However, we must continue to campaign vigorously for further infrastructure enhancements – such as more double track sections and a better junction with the east coast main line at Portobello in the east of Edinburgh.”

David Spaven, author of Waverley Route, said: “Electrification – with faster acceleration of trains – would help to overcome the significant constraints imposed when the Scottish Government decided to build the line with much less double track than previously planned.”
 
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och aye

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Was this ever a viable scheme?

Rising costs may end rail link plan between airport and new arena in Aberdeen

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp...ail-link-plan-between-airport-and-new-arena1/

Ambitious plans for a multi-million-pound rail link between Aberdeen International Airport and the new exhibition centre look set to be abandoned.

Three years ago city council bosses unveiled their vision for a track between the airport and new £333 million P&J Live arena at Bucksburn.

But transport consultants estimate the project would cost £100m – £30m more than first expected, a new report has revealed.

The findings, which will be reported to members of regional transport partnership Nestrans, outline the increased estimated cost, adding that a better option would be to develop a new station on the main line, near the new exhibition centre.

The report said: “Due to embankments, bridging over a number of roads and the possible requirement to relocate International Avenue, the impact is considered to be significant and it is recommended that a better option would be to consider the potential for a new station on the main line, close to P&J Live, and the option of connecting buses or other opportunities linking the airport.”

The Evening Express revealed last year that transport consultants had cast doubt on building the new “rail spur” on land belonging to the exhibition centre.

They argued it was “unlikely” an airport connecting line would be suitable and that it could impact on neighbouring homes.

They were asked to provide further information to the board, including how much it would cost and any physical restrictions, such as steep slopes, to give a “fuller picture”.

Sandra Macdonald, Aberdeen City Council’s transport spokeswoman who sits on the Nestrans board, is in favour of the board exploring a light rail option to connect the two sites.

She added: “I would look at a light transit option rather than a rail spur from the existing rail network we have.

“I don’t know how feasible that is but it’s something that should be looked at and something that has been mentioned to me as doable.”
 

47271

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Was this ever a viable scheme?

Rising costs may end rail link plan between airport and new arena in Aberdeen

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp...ail-link-plan-between-airport-and-new-arena1/
Nope. A rail scheme dreamt up by the Scottish local authority that's got to be the most clueless about public transport was never going to happen.

If they'd just focus on delivering two or three stations between Aberdeen and Dyce thereby opening up opportunities for some of the city's most deprived areas then we'd all be a lot better off.

Actually, a challenge for this thread. Is Aberdeen City the most useless in this respect? Considering the population, the state of its bus service and that there are only two rail stations within its boundaries then I can't think of anywhere worse for public transport delivery.
 
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Probably other lines ahead of the Borders to get electrified?

Scottish Government is considering plans to electrify the Borders Railway
There ought to be, but if the Scottish Government are looking for a quick result then the Borders Railway could give them that. They've declared a climate emergency so might want to be seen to be doing something quickly.
The Borders Railway was built with passive provision for electrification so there are no structures which require alteration.
Other lines which ought to be ahead in the queue, eg East Kilbride, would take longer and cost significantly more per mile due to clearance issues or the double tracking that is probably necessary.
 

railjock

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There ought to be, but if the Scottish Government are looking for a quick result then the Borders Railway could give them that. They've declared a climate emergency so might want to be seen to be doing something quickly.
The Borders Railway was built with passive provision for electrification so there are no structures which require alteration.
Other lines which ought to be ahead in the queue, eg East Kilbride, would take longer and cost significantly more per mile due to clearance issues or the double tracking that is probably necessary.
Governments everywhere like low hanging fruit.
 

Class 170101

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But haven't wired Anniesland to Glasgow Queen Street via Ashfield which I would expect to be the lowest hanging fruit of all.
 
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