Why I would never buy anything from Apple

[Lucan]

Apple are suing a small independent repair shop in Norway for repairing their phones :-

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...hone-repair-shop-louis-rossmann-henrik-huseby

From that link :-

Despite initially losing the case last year, Apple is continuing its legal pursuit against the owner of a small, independent iPhone repair shop in Norway. Apple is attempting to hold the repair shop owner liable for importing what it says are counterfeit iPhone screens into his home country of Norway.

The real issue here is not about "counterfeit" screens (only Apple's own dealers can obtain "genuine" new screens anyway), it is about Apple wanting a monopoly for its own dealers (or better still for you to bin the old iThing and buy new), and this trilion dolllar company wants $3566 from this small shop as a test case in a far larger battle over the "Right to Repair". Of course, they hope to wear the guy down financially even if they fail to win legally. They thought he was an easy target, but he wasn't and won the first round, and now Apple cannot afford to be seen losing.

The result of the larger battle over the "Right to Repair", although mosty being fought in the USA at the moment, will affect all of us; it is not just about phones, but also about car repair and servicing, appliance repair, and machinery repair generally. Prominent big players alongside Apple are Microsoft and John Deere (agricultural machinery). They are opposed by consumer groups, farmers' associations, and associations of small repair garages etc. DiY will be affected but is not the main driver. Generally the corporations play the "safety card", but "protecting" the consumer against "counterfeits" (however that is defined) is another card they play.

If the corporations win this battle many things will become more expensive - for example cars will be servicable only by main dealers which are several times more expensive than independents last time I checked. Things which have been economicaly repairable (eg new £10 valve for a washing machine) will cease to be and the things will be scrapped instead.

Ironic, while we are being exhorted to re-use things and not create waste - I wonder how the corporations like Apple have the nerve, but of course they employ the best PR people in the business.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely they would only be "counterfeit" if they were branded as Apple screens? It strikes me that what he was importing was aftermarket replacements, against which, provided he was being honest that they were aftermarket and not claiming them to be genuine Apple components, and provided Apple do not have a patent that would prevent this, there is not a lot they can do.

Otherwise, they'd be effectively suggesting that a Patek Philippe was a counterfeit Rolex...

(and if you thought iPhones were expensive... https://www.chronext.co.uk/patek-ph...490&device=c&gclid=COObsoq81-ICFSQo0wodI-MOXA) (Patek Philippe watches for sale, random Google result, not a recommendation )

 

[Lucan]

He was using Apple screens salvaged from other discarded phones. He was being careful, apparently obscuring the existing Apple logo and then turning the glass inwards to prevent it being seen anyway. He may have been using screens from third parties too. He was not claiming that he was using Apple parts, just claiming to get people's phones working again.

I was once the deputy workshop foreman in a Rover main dealers, and I'll tell you a "secret" : most car parts are not made by the nominal car maker even if they have their name on it. Things like brake shoes, hoses, switches, carpets, pumps, sometimes even the engine, gearbox, and axles, are made by contractors to the car maker. In that sense most original parts are not genuine, let alone spares. At best they have the car makers endorsement, but many of those contractors have good reputations in their own right anyway (Bosch, Giring etc).

I'll tell you more - if we at the garage did not have a part in stock, we would get one from anywhere, any brand, to get the customer's car back on the road by the time we shut. Remember we were a main dealer, not an independent. The customers could not give a hoot who had made their new cooling water pump as long as their car ran. We had a guy out in the van all the time buying parts from any motor factors anywhere across South London. At no time did we consider ourselves to be "counterfeiting". I do the same with my own car today.

 

[Bletchleyite]

He was using Apple screens salvaged from other discarded phones. He was being careful, apparently obscuring the existing Apple logo and then turning the glass inwards to prevent it being seen anyway. He may have been using screens from third parties too. He was not claiming that he was using Apple parts, just claiming to get people's phones working again.

I doubt Apple will be in with any chance, then.

I'll tell you more - if we at the garage did not have a part in stock, we would get one from anywhere, any brand, to get the customer's car back on the road by the time we shut. Remember we were a main dealer, not an independent. The customers could not give a hoot who had made their new cooling water pump as long as their car ran. We had a guy out in the van all the time buying parts from any motor factors anywhere across South London. At no time did we consider ourselves to be "counterfeiting". I do the same with my own car today.

I'd agree it would not be, unless as a main dealer you stated you used "genuine X parts" in which case you arguably might have been. It's simply a case of being honest about what you are doing, and charging accordingly.

 

[thejuggler]

This is how Tesla operate. Try getting any parts to do a DIY repair on one of those.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is how Tesla operate. Try getting any parts to do a DIY repair on one of those.

I'd imagine they use patents rather than "counterfeiting" law to enforce it, though. Most parts for petrol and diesel engines will fail to obtain a patent due to prior art as the concepts have been around for years. Electric cars are newer, so it's more likely that patents will be viable, at least for the next 10-20 years or so.

 

[nlogax]

I've been a follower of Louis' YT channel for some time and it's truly enlightening viewing. The quality of some of Apple's engineering (physical and electronic) in terms of longevity-oriented design is appalling, and it's hardly surprising that Louis is a very busy man - as he was even before he really got involved into the Right to Repair movement.

Apple deserve everything that's coming to them if they can't consider adopting a more consumer-friendly approach already taken by Lenovo and others. There's another great write-up of this at;

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...y-tinkerers-fighting-for-your-right-to-repair

"As a result of this, those at the forefront of the online repair community are sometimes met with hostility from manufacturers. Apple has brought suits against unauthorized repair shops and have had their intellectual property lawyers directly contacted some YouTube tinkerers.

This type of behavior has radicalized a number of YouTube repairers, including Jones and Rossmann, whose videos now often venture into right to repair advocacy. This places them in a growing coalition of consumer freedom advocates, farmers, hackers, and environmentalists who are pushing for legislation that will allow consumers to fix what they own and empower third-party independent repair shops. In the US, so far 20 states have expressed interest in this type of legislative reform, and Senator Elizabeth Warren in March called for a national right to repair bill, which, while specifically made for farmers wanting to repair their own tractors, would have broad repercussions for all technology manufacturers."



(this post sent from a Macbook..which are fabulous when they work)

 

[yorksrob]

Never trust a tech giant.

They might all dress in t-shirts to look like students and pretend to be "hip", but they're still a bunch of blood-thirsty capitalists.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I'd imagine they use patents rather than "counterfeiting" law to enforce it, though. Most parts for petrol and diesel engines will fail to obtain a patent due to prior art as the concepts have been around for years. Electric cars are newer, so it's more likely that patents will be viable, at least for the next 10-20 years or so.

No, it's just Tesla want to keep complete control and want to keep out independent and third party garages which they've been very clear about. They also claim their patents are open and available to anyone.

Apple's hardware design is one of the main reasons I despise them as they intentionally make their systems difficult to repair or upgrade as well as not financially viable which pushes people to buy a brand new machine instead. I am repeatedly told that Apple devices are worth their higher initial cost because they last much longer than a similar PC but increasingly the opposite is true, the main components in an Apple PC are no different to other PC companies but if any component breaks, even a single stick of ram the entire machine is now toast because you can't replace that stick of ram. Not only do you have to replace the entire motherboard but now you also have to replace the working ram, the CPU and SSD because they're all soldered on.

Unfortunately many others are copying Apple with similarly awful designs and the worst part is, Apple claim they are 'green' even though wear and tear items like batteries are almost impossible to replace and will likely mean the machine will be replaced by a new one far short of its full working life. We're in a time when performance isn't moving on much so PC's should be able to last much longer but their lives are getting shorter with planned obsolescence. I had a friend with an imac that had a mainboard failure at around two years old, the costs to replace the mainboard were eye watering so instead they asked if I could retrieve the hard drive. Given a hard drive is a likely failure you'd think it wouldn't be too hard to remove but obviously with it being an Apple device it was a total nightmare which involves removing the entire screen to get to it rather than the two minute job it would be on similar devices. Yet despite the premature failure of this imac and the difficulty in extracting the data, they went straight out and bought a brand new imac...

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, it's just Tesla want to keep complete control and want to keep out independent and third party garages which they've been very clear about.

They can want that all they like, but they have to use a legal framework to actually have it. The only one I can think of which could be used to ban aftermarket parts is to make the parts unique enough to patent.

 

[433N]

Wouldn't go near an iPhone myself just on the basis that their PCs have been rubbish for time immemorial but one of my teenagers once pointed out that you never see an iPhone without a cracked screen ; they seem particularly prone to it compared to other phones. I suspect that the quality is intentionally rubbish (just like batteries for iPods) to fulfill their desired aim of manufactured obsolescence - the environment cannot sustain this sort of nonsense any more.

All Apple products are truly style over substance.

 

[TRAX]

I was once the deputy workshop foreman in a Rover main dealers, and I'll tell you a "secret" : most car parts are not made by the nominal car maker even if they have their name on it. Things like brake shoes, hoses, switches, carpets, pumps, sometimes even the engine, gearbox, and axles, are made by contractors to the car maker. In that sense most original parts are not genuine, let alone spares. At best they have the car makers endorsement, but many of those contractors have good reputations in their own right anyway (Bosch, Giring etc).

How is this a secret in any way ? It is well known, to the people who have a bit of interest in the matter, that approx. 80 % of the value of a vehicle is from sub-suppliers - and this is true for cars, buses, trucks, trains...

 

[Busaholic]

If you don't know about McDonalds' legal action against two British environmental campaigners in the '90s, commonly known as the McLibel trials, I suggest you look them up. They cost McDonalds millions, though they won a somewhat pyrrhic victory in the end, using laws against defamation. The laws later had to be changed as the result of European Court of Human Rights intervention, and it was commonly considered that the SEVEN years plus that the case(s) dragged on for were the biggest corporate disaster in history, though I suspect they'll be dwarfed by Boeing's woes!

 

[Darandio]

I was once the deputy workshop foreman in a Rover main dealers, and I'll tell you a "secret" : most car parts are not made by the nominal car maker even if they have their name on it. Things like brake shoes, hoses, switches, carpets, pumps, sometimes even the engine, gearbox, and axles, are made by contractors to the car maker. In that sense most original parts are not genuine, let alone spares. At best they have the car makers endorsement, but many of those contractors have good reputations in their own right anyway (Bosch, Giring etc).

The supply chain is a secret, who would have thought it.

 

[GB]

Wouldn't go near an iPhone myself just on the basis that their PCs have been rubbish for time immemorial but one of my teenagers once pointed out that you never see an iPhone without a cracked screen ; they seem particularly prone to it compared to other phones. I suspect that the quality is intentionally rubbish (just like batteries for iPods) to fulfill their desired aim of manufactured obsolescence - the environment cannot sustain this sort of nonsense any more.

All Apple products are truly style over substance.

I am in no way in support of Apple's business practices and often their design choices and pricing points leave me confused at a little miffed...however my 3 year old iPhone 6s is still going strong without any physical hiccups. Ive also had no problems with any of the iPads and iPods ive owned over the years. Ive never used a Mac or latest phones so can't comment on those. Incidentally, I wen't through many Windows Lumia phones due to screen cracks and other internal issues before settling on the 6s.

 

[Cowley]

Wouldn't go near an iPhone myself just on the basis that their PCs have been rubbish for time immemorial but one of my teenagers once pointed out that you never see an iPhone without a cracked screen ; they seem particularly prone to it compared to other phones. I suspect that the quality is intentionally rubbish (just like batteries for iPods) to fulfill their desired aim of manufactured obsolescence - the environment cannot sustain this sort of nonsense any more.

All Apple products are truly style over substance.

I do have an iPhone but it’s an old 5S model and I’d never buy anything new because I end up dropping it off scaffolding frequently.
Regarding cracked screens - The glass screen seems to be slightly proud around the edge, so if you haven’t got a case on it and it gets dropped it’ll crack.
We have many teenagers, so we know this...

 

[Spamcan81]

Wouldn't go near an iPhone myself just on the basis that their PCs have been rubbish for time immemorial but one of my teenagers once pointed out that you never see an iPhone without a cracked screen ; they seem particularly prone to it compared to other phones. I suspect that the quality is intentionally rubbish (just like batteries for iPods) to fulfill their desired aim of manufactured obsolescence - the environment cannot sustain this sort of nonsense any more.

All Apple products are truly style over substance.

Nonsense. They're no more nor no less prone to cracked screens than any other smartphone. My partner uses iPhones and has never had a cracked screen, I use iPhones and I have had a cracked screen. Mate of mine had a cracked screen on a Sony, got a new screen and cracked that one too. None of this however proves any one make is better or worse than another but it does prove some people are clumsier than others. As for Apple computers, just a matter of choice. Still using a G5 tower as a print server as well as a word processor. Going strong even though it's years old. All this "my OS is better than your OS" is complete nonsense. Just like the Cannon v Nikon wars in photography. Buy what suits you and let others buy what suits them.

 

[Lucan]

How is this a secret in any way ? It is well known, to the people who have a bit of interest in the matter, that approx. 80 % of the value of a vehicle is from sub-suppliers - and this is true for cars, buses, trucks, trains...

The supply chain is a secret, who would have thought it.

That's why I put the word "secret" in quotes. It's my sense of humour, but not everyone has it the same

 

[433N]

All this "my OS is better than your OS" is complete nonsense. Just like the Cannon v Nikon wars in photography. Buy what suits you and let others buy what suits them.

No one is saying anything about OS's or cameras or not to buy what suits them. The thread title is 'Why I would never buy anything from Apple' by the way and I explained why I wouldn't. Did you ?

 

[whhistle]

If you're plugged into Apple using a Mac, iTunes, Apple TV and all sorts, it's a seemless system.
I am not and don't wish to be.

Their closed system and complicated methodology annoys the hell out of me.

Using a stupid non-standard cable for charging (more waste), not being able to drag files on to a phone (why not?), a strange operating system in some respects... a few key things to put me off completely.

 

[TRAX]

You can drag files into the phone from a computer (if that is what you mean) if you enable it.

 

[Bevan Price]

My only experience of Apple was at work with early Apple II computers. For their time, they were competent reliable performers. I have never bought an Apple product myself, because they all seem to cost a lot more than other equivalent products. And unlike PCs, Apple seemed to want to exert more control over what software / applications can be used on their products.

 

[gazthomas]

I was a bit of an Apple "fan boi", but having had 3 iPhones and an iMac die without warning (remarkably *just* after the warranty expired) I've seen sense and I now look elsewhere as necessary, whether that's a Windows 10 equipped laptop, Android phone or Amazon tablet. With things like OneDrive interoperability and file sharing across devices is easier than ever. I just wish they'd standardise gestures - is it swipe left or right to delete an email for example!

 

[cjmillsnun]

I'd imagine they use patents rather than "counterfeiting" law to enforce it, though. Most parts for petrol and diesel engines will fail to obtain a patent due to prior art as the concepts have been around for years. Electric cars are newer, so it's more likely that patents will be viable, at least for the next 10-20 years or so.

Electric cars have been around since the dawn of the motor car.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Nonsense. They're no more nor no less prone to cracked screens than any other smartphone. My partner uses iPhones and has never had a cracked screen, I use iPhones and I have had a cracked screen. Mate of mine had a cracked screen on a Sony, got a new screen and cracked that one too. None of this however proves any one make is better or worse than another but it does prove some people are clumsier than others. As for Apple computers, just a matter of choice. Still using a G5 tower as a print server as well as a word processor. Going strong even though it's years old. All this "my OS is better than your OS" is complete nonsense. Just like the Cannon v Nikon wars in photography. Buy what suits you and let others buy what suits them.

This. And as to a comment about apple controlling what you can run on their macs by another poster. I run Windows 10 as well as MacOS natively. Apple even produce a utility to make this easier for non technical users (although it is nothing more than a shell around repartitioning and a driver download).

I could if I wanted, Also partition off more and install any flavour of Linux I want (although this is unsupported). I also have a PC tower that I built myself that runs MacOS natively (that is a hack as I had to manually configure drivers and a bootloader to make it work).

That said, I won’t be buying Apple in the future. There is little point now as to be quite honest the creative applications are as good on Windows as they are on MacOS now. It is not worth the extra cost.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Electric cars have been around since the dawn of the motor car.

Not quite in their current form. A modern electric car is worlds apart from the likes of a 1960s milk float.

 

[Bantamzen]

I would not ever buy an Apple product because I am from Yorkshire.....

 

[JohnMcL7]

Nonsense. They're no more nor no less prone to cracked screens than any other smartphone. My partner uses iPhones and has never had a cracked screen, I use iPhones and I have had a cracked screen. Mate of mine had a cracked screen on a Sony, got a new screen and cracked that one too. None of this however proves any one make is better or worse than another but it does prove some people are clumsier than others. As for Apple computers, just a matter of choice. Still using a G5 tower as a print server as well as a word processor. Going strong even though it's years old. All this "my OS is better than your OS" is complete nonsense. Just like the Cannon v Nikon wars in photography. Buy what suits you and let others buy what suits them.

It's not the case any more but it's certainly not nonsense, until recently when other Android manufacturers changed to a more fragile design similar to Apple's (or worse with these curved screens) the iphone design was more vulbnerable to screen damage. For all the complaints about older Android devices using 'cheap' materials for their construction such as plastic, they were far more durable than fragile glass designs. When we deployed company devices in large numbers (hundreds of Android and Apple devices), it was very rare to see a damaged screen on the Android devices even when they were noticeably banged up whereas it was very rare to ever have an Apple device returned with an intact screen.

Unfortunately now most Android manufacturers are using a similarly fragile design I've been seeing the balance level up.

A G5 tower is absolutely nothing like the design of current Apple devices which is kind of the point, any current Apple device you buy now is going to be a write off pretty much even with a minor component failure which means it's not at all just a matter of choice. People buy Apple devices on the myth that they'll last much longer than Windows PCs and therefore are worth the premium so it's quite a shock when they find it's actually the opposite way round these days.

 

[prod_pep]

People do seem to be seeing the light a bit more as regards Apple these days. I know a couple of former Apple fanboys who were once scornful of my long-standing Apple aversion but have come to understand. Several hundred quid spent on devices with a remarkable knack of slowing down or breaking within weeks of the warranty expiring must be exasperating. I gave up on the company's over-hyped dross years ago, when constant iPod issues and the associated pain of dealing with Apple's customer service drove me away.

Unfortunately now most Android manufacturers are using a similarly fragile design I've been seeing the balance level up.

I'm afraid this is all too true. I still use my Samsung Galaxy Ace for alarm clock and note-taking duties and it dates back to around 2011. It has withstood multiple drops on hard surfaces with no visible damage whatsoever and runs a treat. I've only had my current main phone (also a Samsung) for about a year and the first and only time I dropped it, it cracked. Luckily only the back was affected but it's made me a lot warier.

 

[WestCoast]

I need my phone for work and use it all day long so I am quite fussy about what phone I have. I’m not at all an Apple fanboy but I switched to an iPhone X last year from a Samsung S8 and to my surprise I have much preferred the iPhone. I personally found the Samsung layered Android OS just all in all quite messy and although you can customise it to the hilt which I’m sure many love, I never found it all that inituitive throughout my time with my S6 and then S8. Whereas I can operate iOS in my sleep. I had numerous Android issues over the years especially with previous HTC handsets and the support from them in particular was appalling, so I would not particularly rely on any manufacturer to back me on issues.

I think the only Androids I’d consider having now would be the Google Pixel range, given their clean version of Android and guaranteed update schedule. Maybe OnePlus too given their excellent handsets and OS.

Although I do like iOS I wouldn’t buy an Apple Desktop or Laptop though, never really cared for MacOS. I use a £280 Chromebook for day to day tasks and it works like a dream with Android apps for Windows Office, saving everything to OneDrive. Basic and simple but it just works and the Citrix remote access for my work network is genuinely more stable than accessing it from a Microsoft Surface*.

You pick what works for you in the end.

*Off topic but I completely loathe Surfaces on Windows 10, the laptop version seems a tad better.