• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages

Status
Not open for further replies.

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
Price is the CEO of the Welsh Government owned company Transport for Wales, not of Tfw Rail Services, the privately owned company which actually operates the trains. In other words he's a civil servant not a railwayman.
I got a bit annoyed by Transport for Wales YouTube channel (~280 subscribers) implying in a video that Colin Lea is one of their own employees, not "Rail Services" (KeolisAmey) which is actually the case. And the TfW Rail Services channel only has ~85 subscribers.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Dai Corner

Established Member
Joined
20 Jul 2015
Messages
6,316
I got a bit annoyed by Transport for Wales YouTube channel (~280 subscribers) implying in a video that Colin Lea is one of their own employees, not "Rail Services" (KeolisAmey) which is actually the case. And the TfW Rail Services channel only has ~85 subscribers.

I never knew either had a Youtube channel!

I'm not convinced the confusion between the two in the general public's mind is entirely accidental.
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
I never knew either had a Youtube channel!

I'm not convinced the confusion between the two in the general public's mind is entirely accidental.
Both have content on the Transport for Wales TOC, but of course from their "respective perspectives". And nor am I...
 

sd0733

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2012
Messages
3,544
150241 was visible in Arriva train care at crewe today with a new electronic destination screen scrolling so this cant be far off being released post PRM mods
 

Caaardiff

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2019
Messages
852
Thanks for the welcome anamyd. I've been a long time viewer of the forum but felt time to join up and post :)
A very insightful post of the current situation. My post was more a comparison of carriage for carriage rather than the technical specifics. Someone somewhere has obviously done all the maths and the capacity comparisons of the fleet changes. Hopefully things stay on track so to speak and the introduction of the new fleets goes without further hitch :)
 

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
4,495
The plan with the Pacer replacement as I understand it, is that 9 of the 30 will be directly replaced by the 9 769s, and the introduction of the 12 170s and 5 230s on the wider network will facilitate an "internal" cascade of 17 150s to "Valley Lines" (pretend it's still a seperate TOC) which will mean that "their" allocation will go from 15 142s / 15 143s / 6 150s, to 23 150s / 9 769s. So 4 fewer units, but a horizontal carriage space increase on that network/sub-network of 500 metres from 1140m to 1640m.

Per unit, Pacers have 2 15m carriages, 150s have 2 20m carriages and 769s have 4 20m carriages. And the Pacers have to be doubled up to achieve still only 75% of the length of a single 769, so the 4 fewer units won't be an issue. 9 769s are of equivalent capacity to 18 150s, not 18 Pacers. 9 769s are of equivalent capacity to 24 Pacers, due to Pacer carriages being only 15m in length rather than 20m.
There's a lot more than six 150s on the valleys at the moment. More like 15 diagrams. The majority of the Pacers run in pairs with perhaps five single diagrams. All those pairs on the routes through Pontypridd will need to be replaced by pairs of 150s.
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
There's a lot more than six 150s on the valleys at the moment. More like 15 diagrams. The majority of the Pacers run in pairs with perhaps five single diagrams. All those pairs on the routes through Pontypridd will need to be replaced by pairs of 150s.
oops! I stand corrected, thank you :)
 

Jez

Established Member
Joined
22 Jan 2011
Messages
1,231
Location
Neath
I was thinking there was a lot more than 15 x 150s on the Valley Lines too.

I think the 150's are allocated as follows;

Valley Lines - 15
Pembroke Dock - 2
North Wales/England (Borderlands Line/Conwy Valley Line/Chester-Crewe/Liverpool-Chester/Wrexham) - 6
Swanline - 1 (used during evening peak on Valleys?)
Maesteg/Cheltenham/Ebbw Vale - ?? Unsure how many as some 158/153 and pacers are booked for these routes also.

Any spares are probably for maintenance or covering for 158s/175s on certain routes (obviously not the Cambrian line)
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
What about the services to Gloucester via Chepstow?

These services with one or two exceptions work through between Maesteg and Cheltenham. 769s would be overkill and there is/will be no problem with working to Rhymney. Some people have been taken in by so many rumours.
 

SimonR76

Member
Joined
23 Jan 2019
Messages
13
Some people think the 769s won't work the Rhymney line because of clearance issues at Queen St and will work Ebbw Vale instead, which will be even more of a waste of the 769s.
Is there a reason that the 769s can/t work Aberdare/Merthyr/Treherbert? Surely not the curve at Radyr?
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
I was thinking there was a lot more than 15 x 150s on the Valley Lines too.

I think the 150's are allocated as follows;

Valley Lines - 15
Pembroke Dock - 2
North Wales/England (Borderlands Line/Conwy Valley Line/Chester-Crewe/Liverpool-Chester/Wrexham) - 6
Swanline - 1 (used during evening peak on Valleys?)
Maesteg/Cheltenham/Ebbw Vale - ?? Unsure how many as some 158/153 and pacers are booked for these routes also.

Any spares are probably for maintenance or covering for 158s/175s on certain routes (obviously not the Cambrian line)
thanks for the info :)
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
Is there a reason that the 769s can/t work Aberdare/Merthyr/Treherbert? Surely not the curve at Radyr?
I believe that they can; someone reposted an old thing that no longer applies now that the sticky out exhaust pipes and the bogie issues have been rectified - that's my understanding anyway.
 

craigybagel

Established Member
Joined
25 Oct 2012
Messages
5,061
Is there a reason that the 769s can/t work Aberdare/Merthyr/Treherbert? Surely not the curve at Radyr?

None I'm aware of, but it wouldn't surprise me if they only train up Rhymney traincrew on them, and possibly Treherbert as well, rather then having to train up the massive depot at Cardiff for a small fleet with a limited lifespan. Although all 3 Valleys depots sign the entire network, the Valleys unit diagrams tend to stay on the same route all day, so by keeping the 769s to one route it shouldn't be too hard to ensure that there's always traincrew on hand who sign it, without having to train up everybody.

I could be entirely wrong I must add, but that's my own suspicion.
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
None I'm aware of, but it wouldn't surprise me if they only train up Rhymney traincrew on them, and possibly Treherbert as well, rather then having to train up the massive depot at Cardiff for a small fleet with a limited lifespan. Although all 3 Valleys depots sign the entire network, the Valleys unit diagrams tend to stay on the same route all day, so by keeping the 769s to one route it shouldn't be too hard to ensure that there's always traincrew on hand who sign it, without having to train up everybody.

I could be entirely wrong I must add, but that's my own suspicion.
which are the 3 Valleys depots...? just curious :)
 

SimonR76

Member
Joined
23 Jan 2019
Messages
13
None I'm aware of, but it wouldn't surprise me if they only train up Rhymney traincrew on them, and possibly Treherbert as well, rather then having to train up the massive depot at Cardiff for a small fleet with a limited lifespan. Although all 3 Valleys depots sign the entire network, the Valleys unit diagrams tend to stay on the same route all day, so by keeping the 769s to one route it shouldn't be too hard to ensure that there's always traincrew on hand who sign it, without having to train up everybody.

I could be entirely wrong I must add, but that's my own suspicion.
Thanks both.
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
As yesterday also, according to TFW Journey Check, 5 diagrams on the Marches are formed by 2 vice 3 carriages so that points to several 150s in use along the route. Where have all the 175/1s gone, where have they gone ?
 

Cardiff123

Established Member
Joined
10 Mar 2013
Messages
1,318
As yesterday also, according to TFW Journey Check, 5 diagrams on the Marches are formed by 2 vice 3 carriages so that points to several 150s in use along the route. Where have all the 175/1s gone, where have they gone ?
Which in turn means those 150s are not available for PRM mods.
Another forum suggests that 175s are away getting interior refurbs. You'd think PRM-ing 150s would be the priority right now.
 

craigybagel

Established Member
Joined
25 Oct 2012
Messages
5,061
Which in turn means those 150s are not available for PRM mods.
Another forum suggests that 175s are away getting interior refurbs. You'd think PRM-ing 150s would be the priority right now.

But if there's no more capacity in Crewe to upgrade more 150s at once, they might as well start work on the 175s. It might be a franchise specified deadline rather then a legal one, but all of those 175s still need work doing by the same deadline, so the sooner TfW get started the better.
 

Cardiff123

Established Member
Joined
10 Mar 2013
Messages
1,318
But if there's no more capacity in Crewe to upgrade more 150s at once, they might as well start work on the 175s. It might be a franchise specified deadline rather then a legal one, but all of those 175s still need work doing by the same deadline, so the sooner TfW get started the better.
I'm pretty sure I've read in Modern Railways that the deadline for all of the legacy fleet to get interior refurbs is 31 March 2021, with all getting plug sockets by the end of this year, but fitting plug sockets is hardly more important than meeting the PRM deadline.

Trains can run without plug sockets past 31/12/2019, they can't run without full PRM mods past then.
 

craigybagel

Established Member
Joined
25 Oct 2012
Messages
5,061
A refurbished 150 is currently making its way from Crewe LNWR to Cardiff, under the headcode 2Z84. Not sure which unit it is though - it's not 150284 as that's meant to be in Rhymney right now.

I'm pretty sure I've read in Modern Railways that the deadline for all of the legacy fleet to get interior refurbs is 31 March 2021, with all getting plug sockets by the end of this year, but fitting plug sockets is hardly more important than meeting the PRM deadline.

Trains can run without plug sockets past 31/12/2019, they can't run without full PRM mods past then.

True, but presumably there's still a fine or some other consequence if the goals aren't met. And if it's not possible to release any more 150s anyway they might as well get started on the 175s, especially as the more quiet summer months approach.
 

6Gtraincrew

Member
Joined
22 Feb 2018
Messages
439
150236 has been there for a while and 241 was spotted outside yesterday. So guess 241 is heading home.

284 was done ages ago, although it does need to go back in to have its bike racks fitted at some point. Same with 285.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top