Fair anomalies, is this allowed

[Chrisrout1234]

Hi, new confused member questions.
I am travelling return from crossgates to York midweek. The cost is £15.70. However if I want to travel from crossgates to Harrogate its only £9.30. The Harrogate train changes at either Leeds or York. What is to stop me buying the return to Harrogate and just getting off and back on at York saving a fiver??
Ta in advance

 

[dave4jackie]

because the price you quoted is only valid via leeds so won't allow you to go to york

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

If it were a permitted route to go via York, and there were no restrictions on breaking your journey on the ticket in question, then yes it would work. However, the ticket in question is explicitly routed "via Leeds", so you cannot use it to go via York.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

What you could of course do is to buy a Leeds to York "Northern only" ticket (be it an ordinary Anytime/Off-Peak Day Single/Return or a season ticket). The season ticket is in fact cheaper than Cross Gates to Harrogate, and the single/return tickets are a little bit dearer but still a fair amount cheaper than Cross Gates to York.

All "Northern only" fares except Advances allow you to break your journey, so you could quite legitimately use the above ticket and use it just from Cross Gates (and if you got the season ticket then, if you ever wanted to go to Leeds that would then also be covered, as would be the so-called "Church Fenton Flier", changing at Leeds).

 

[JBuchananGB]

To clarify, the Off Peak Day Return Leeds to York (Northern only) is £12.20 as compared to the £15.70 which the OP was looking at, and will do the job as long as he doesn’t mind sticking to Northern.

 

[yorkie]

Hi, new confused member questions.
I am travelling return from crossgates to York midweek. The cost is £15.70. However if I want to travel from crossgates to Harrogate its only £9.30. The Harrogate train changes at either Leeds or York. What is to stop me buying the return to Harrogate and just getting off and back on at York saving a fiver??
Ta in advance

The fact it's not valid via York stops you.

I agree that it's valid to start/finish 'short' at Crossgates on a Leeds to York ticket, which reduces the price to £12.20 off peak.

 

[JBuchananGB]

As all direct trains from Cross Gates to York are operated by Northern it made me wonder what extra flexibility the OP would get for his extra £3.50 for an "Any Permitted" ticket. As there is only 1 tph direct it seems you can take a train to Leeds and then the TPE to York from there if you wish to go from Cross Gates to York and have missed the direct train.

 

[yorkie]

As all direct trains from Cross Gates to York are operated by Northern it made me wonder what extra flexibility the OP would get for his extra £3.50 for an "Any Permitted" ticket. As there is only 1 tph direct it seems you can take a train to Leeds and then the TPE to York from there if you wish to go from Cross Gates to York and have missed the direct train.

In the current weekday timetable, TPE operate trains calling at Cross Gates at:

0739 (to Manchester)
0808 (to Manchester)
0857 (to Manchester)
1619 (to Middlesbrough)
1719 (to Middlesbrough)
1819 (to Middlesbrough)​

However these are of no use to a Cross Gates to York commuter.

It's not permitted to double-back to Leeds because Cross Gates is within Leeds Group, the double-back adds more than 3 miles extra distance, and there's no easement to permit it.

 

[adrock1976]

I thought that regarding the stations east of Leeds, for anybody who is travelling to Church Fenton, Ulleskelf, or York, that they could double back via Leeds provided it was for interchange purposes only?

Also, what is the purpose of the fares between York and Wakefield being "via Leeds" or "Northern Only"? Is it intended to prevent passengers travelling York to Doncaster, then onwards to Wakefield, or was that never a reasonable route in the days of British Rail?

EDIT: Regarding the double back, it may only actually apply to Micklefield if I remember the easements for that area.

 

[yorkie]

I thought that regarding the stations east of Leeds, for anybody who is travelling to Church Fenton, Ulleskelf, or York, that they could double back via Leeds provided it was for interchange purposes only?

East of Leeds Group, yes.

Cross Gates is a member of Leeds Group, so doubling-back between Cross Gates and Leeds isn't permitted.

Also, what is the purpose of the fares between York and Wakefield being "via Leeds" or "Northern Only"? Is it intended to prevent passengers travelling York to Doncaster, then onwards to Wakefield, or was that never a reasonable route in the days of British Rail?

via Doncaster is a permitted route, but route: "Any Permitted" is a lot more expensive than "via Leeds".

Of course, you could go via Doncaster for the lowest priced fare routed "Northern Only" but it would take ages as you'd have to use Northern via Selby and there are very few Northern services between Selby and Doncaster.

EDIT: Regarding the double back, it may only actually apply to Micklefield if I remember the easements for that area.

Not even from Micklefield; Leeds Group consists of all stations between Leeds and Micklefield inclusive. There is no easement.

 

[adrock1976]

East of Leeds Group, yes.

Cross Gates is a member of Leeds Group, so doubling-back between Cross Gates and Leeds isn't permitted.

via Doncaster is a permitted route, but route: "Any Permitted" is a lot more expensive than "via Leeds".

Of course, you could go via Doncaster for the lowest priced fare routed "Northern Only" but it would take ages as you'd have to use Northern via Selby and there are very few Northern services between Selby and Doncaster.

Not even from Micklefield; Leeds Group consists of all stations between Leeds and Micklefield inclusive. There is no easement.

Many thanks for clearing that up.