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London Euston HS2

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CICERO55

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With all the work on the new hs2 station at Euston, what are the plans for the old 1968 Euston station, if it going to be demolished, rebuilt?
 
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Joseph_Locke

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With all the work on the new hs2 station at Euston, what are the plans for the old 1968 Euston station, if it going to be demolished, rebuilt?

Nothing, beyond connecting it to the HS2 station. A joined-up regeneration of the whole of Euston was proposed early on in the HS2 development process, but not pursued, on cost grounds. One of the more reasoned proposals is here
 

NotATrainspott

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The difficulty with Euston is that the tracks are at an awkward height compared to ground level. That means it's not possible to build across it without having awkward level differences, unless you go to the effort of digging up the tracks and platforms and reinstating them at a lower level. I think that's still likely to happen, but it's a much bigger redevelopment ask than most recent London terminus reconstructions.

The particular issue that HS2 have had to deal with is that they need a construction programme for Euston that doesn't put the whole project at risk. The initial proposal to rebuild the whole station, classic lines included, in time for 2026 seems almost absurd now. The current plan is to open only the westernmost bank of six HS2 platforms, outside of the existing station site, for 2026 since they're all that's needed for the 2026 Phase 1 service pattern. Then, the next five platforms will open in time for Phase 2, and will require greater interference with the existing station. I think we'll see the classic station rebuilt only once the Phase 2 passenger facilities are open, as they can then get away with demolishing the existing facilities. Not immediately following the HS2 works means the best time to get the rest of the station sorted would be missed.
 

edwin_m

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The current plan is to open only the westernmost bank of six HS2 platforms, outside of the existing station site, for 2026 since they're all that's needed for the 2026 Phase 1 service pattern.
Aren't some of these platforms on the site of the westernmost existing platforms 17-18, which I think have now gone out of use?
 

Bald Rick

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17/18 are indeed out of use now. The HS2 station has the tracks at a much lower level than the existing; the concourse above the HS2 tracks is approximately the same level as the current tracks. As has been said upthread, more of the current platforms will come out of use and be rebuilt (at the lower level) when HS2 Ph 1 is open.

There is a big plan for rebuilding the ‘classique’ part of the station, but no decisions taken yet on scope or scale.
 

Malcolmffc

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Are there any plans to rebuild the tube station? It can barely cope with passenger volumes as it is.
 

Maurice3000

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I know there are plans to connect Euston Square station with Euston Tube station as part of the Euston upgrade. All to make it easier to handle all the people that 200 - 400 metre trains will unload at Euston every fifteen minutes or so.

That work would provide a good opportunity to improve Euston Tube too. If they can find a proper way to keep Tube <-> SSR interchange traffic entirely separate from entry/exit traffic then that might actually cause some relief for every part except for the platforms.
 

Bletchleyite

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I know there are plans to connect Euston Square station with Euston Tube station as part of the Euston upgrade. All to make it easier to handle all the people that 200 - 400 metre trains will unload at Euston every fifteen minutes or so.

The mind utterly boggles as to why it's taken so long to actually do that. It's not like the eastern end of the platforms aren't near enough directly under the road adjacent to the present Euston taxi rank.
 

Bald Rick

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Are there any plans to rebuild the tube station? It can barely cope with passenger volumes as it is.

Yes, that’s part of the HS2 work. It has to be desinged to accommodate 1000 people arriving on 400m trains every 3 minutes, plus of course all the existing flows into Euston.
 
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Maurice3000

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I found this old article about the Euston station revamp that includes an image covering the underground station upgrade. The article is from 2015 so may not cover the most current approach but at least it shows that upgrading the underground section is very much part of the original plan.

It includes connecting the eastern end of the Euston Square platforms to a new tunnel leading to Euston Tube.

eustonunderground.png
 

Mikey C

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A separate Underground entrance outside the mainline station would be really useful. I've never taken it from Euston, but I assume they now have to keep the mainline station open through the night so that people can access the night tube?
 

Bald Rick

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A separate Underground entrance outside the mainline station would be really useful. I've never taken it from Euston, but I assume they now have to keep the mainline station open through the night so that people can access the night tube?

It has just been split with a separate entrance.
 

Meerkat

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Is it just me that thinks the Euston Arch looked crass and overbearing and doesn’t understand the enthusiasm for its return?
 

Mikey C

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The destruction of the Euston Arch, with the stone being chucked in a river (or canal) was 60s architectural vandalism of the worst kind

I suspect though that if the Arch had just been moved to a park somewhere, then it would have been forgotten about
 

HSTEd

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Myself I would prefer the new Euston simply be a very large span arch using modern ETFE film to make the lightest and airiest station possible, almost like a giant glasshouse.

But that wouldn't allow massive development over the top so it's out.
 

Bletchleyite

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Myself I would prefer the new Euston simply be a very large span arch using modern ETFE film to make the lightest and airiest station possible, almost like a giant glasshouse.

But that wouldn't allow massive development over the top so it's out.

You could probably do something like New St with the developments at the sides and around a large atrium.
 

Maurice3000

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A separate Underground entrance outside the mainline station would be really useful. I've never taken it from Euston, but I assume they now have to keep the mainline station open through the night so that people can access the night tube?
I suspect that Euston Underground could benefit a lot from separating the different traffic flows and functions completely.

Ideally the only reason to use the access with escalators from the mainline ticket hall is for people who are already in the ticket hall. Traffic coming from HS2 would use its own fully underground entrance, as would traffic coming from (at least some of) the existing mainline platforms, similar to what platforms 8 to 11 already have. Interchange traffic between SSR and Tube would use separate tunnels too. Judging from that image at least some of that seems to be happening.
 

edwin_m

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Most classic line passengers will have to exit the Underground into the ticket hall, as even if they don't need tickets they will have to wait there until the platform is called. I don't think LU would want the "Euston scrum" to be replicated on their underground property, so wouldn't want to provide platform indicators in their part of the station. I assume there needs to be some sort of exit into the HS2 concourse for similar reasons, but I agree arriving passengers can be routed direct from the platforms into the Underground if they have no reason to visit the concourse.

There is also Crossrail 2 to be taken into account, even if it doesn't get built in time for HS2 as London wants. It's not shown on the diagram posted above but will presumably need another set of escalators descending in an easterly direction to the west end of the proposed combined Euston/St Pancras platforms, probably to the north of the existing east-west Tube platforms.
 

camflyer

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The decision not to do a major rebuild of Euston is a lost opportunity. Kings Cross and St Pancras have massively benefited from their redevelopments (STP must now be one of the best railways stations in Europe)
 

Bletchleyite

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The decision not to do a major rebuild of Euston is a lost opportunity. Kings Cross and St Pancras have massively benefited from their redevelopments (STP must now be one of the best railways stations in Europe)

Do you reckon? It's impressive, but it's more of a fancy shopping arcade with 4 separate, seriously substandard railway stations bolted on.

I'd say Kings Cross was a vastly better job.

As for Euston I really don't mind it, but rebuilding the platforms so they were all say 300m long would be of great benefit. One of the constraints on peak time 12-car operation is that two of the suburban platforms are only 8-car.
 

edwin_m

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Euston could still be re-built sometime after HS2 phase 2, when there will be somewhat fewer trains using it. However it doesn't seem reasonable to try and do that while phase 2 is still under construction and Euston has to handle all the residual traffic in 12 (I think) platforms.
 

flitwickbeds

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Do you reckon? It's impressive, but it's more of a fancy shopping arcade with 4 separate, seriously substandard railway stations bolted on.
Agreed. I hate the station and make a point of going to Farringdon and doubling back on myself on the Tube to get to Great Portland Street (for work). I dread weekend engineering works when all trains start and terminate at St Pancras.

I've actually done a couple of experiments with a colleague - I alighted at West Hampstead and got the Tube (changing at Finchley Road) to Great Portland Street, then walked to work. He alighted at St Pancras, walked the 98.2 miles through St Pancras to the Victoria Line platforms, went 3 stops to Oxford Circus and did the vastly-shorter walk to work. I arrived first.

I've also stayed on until Farringdon while he got off at St Pancras and both headed to Great Portland Street. We got on the same Tube train!

Of course there is an element of luck in both of these, but it proves that St Pancras is a horrible station to change at.

If the station part of the station (except perhaps Eurostar) had been built as an integrated transport hub without having to walk through miles of corridors and past miles of shops and restaurants, the whole thing might work a bit better.

And don't even get me started on their decision a few years ago to have two up escalators together and two down escalators together, rather than one up and one down in both places as it was previously.....!
 

HSTEd

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I know listing building restrictions meant the extension had to be easily distinguishable from the original station, but it just means the new bit looks like a generic warehouse or office building.

Couldn't they have kept the arch profile but painted it a different colour or something?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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No. Never agreed with the supposed need for reinstatement personally, not at all.

There's still the similar style of building at Curzon St, which the LNWR, LMS and BR managed not to demolish (though they kept trying).
Currently owned by Birmingham City Council.
No reason why that can't represent the origins of the London & Birmingham Railway.
That's assuming it's not in the middle of the new platforms or something!

Plenty of signs of HS2 enabling works visible at Curzon St today, also at the WCML junction near Armitage.
 

swt_passenger

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There's still the similar style of building at Curzon St, which the LNWR, LMS and BR managed not to demolish (though they kept trying).
Currently owned by Birmingham City Council.
No reason why that can't represent the origins of the London & Birmingham Railway.
That's assuming it's not in the middle of the new platforms or something...
It’s always shown separately outside the new station’s footprint. I don’t think it’ll have any real future use of relevance to the new facilities though.
 
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