Caledonian Sleeper

[Bletchleyite]

Transport for Scotland would do well at this point to release Serco from their obligations and bring the CalSleeper under it's remit and control. It would solve, not all, but numerous issues with the service in one swing of the bat.

It really wouldn't.

 

[BRX]

My correspondent on last night's lowlander to edinburgh in the seats reports 3 toilets out of order, the main lighting not switched off in the seats, and the AC making it too cold to sleep, which they apparently were unable to adjust. Arrived on time though.

 

[swapmeetpete]

No lounge service either, due to 'staff sickness'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My correspondent on last night's lowlander to edinburgh in the seats reports 3 toilets out of order, the main lighting not switched off in the seats, and the AC making it too cold to sleep, which they apparently were unable to adjust. Arrived on time though.

The main lighting is never switched off in the seats, is it? Or is it meant to be in the new stock?

 

[Mag_seven]

No lounge service either, due to 'staff sickness'.

Probably stress related!

 

[DarloRich]

Detached from reality? absolutely not. It appears from other threads on this forum however, that it is your view that is king around here and no-one else's matters or is wrong - not the case I'm afraid.

I strongly believe that the privatised railway does not work. It is made worse when it is explained that - and the CalSleeper is a prime example - the service is heavily subsidised, and is currently being run by a serial government "third party provider". (Companies such as Serco prefer the term "Facilities Provider").

A government third party provider is a company that continuously bids on government contracts of wildly varying requirements despite having little or no relevant experience in the fields of the bids. The problem with this is that those companies (and their numbers operating in the UK are reducing as they fall out of favour with procurement executives and Government still reels from the Carillion crisis), bid with a generally exceptionally competitive bid on the basis that they intend to squeeze their sub-contractor suppliers on the delivery side of the contract.

The results of this process produces negative outcomes. Going back to the the point I made about heavy subsidy specifically on CalSleeper. Because it is so heavily funded by Transport for Scotland, it seemingly makes no sense to pay a TPP outfit who then sub-contract numerous functions again thus squeezing margin, pushing up subsidy levels, and leaving the quality of service open to issues due to the number of moving parts involved to deliver eg; a sandwich to an end user.

Transport for Scotland would do well at this point to release Serco from their obligations and bring the CalSleeper under it's remit and control. It would solve, not all, but numerous issues with the service in one swing of the bat.

lovely statement. How does that fix the problems with these carriages? How does your idea not to pay people fix the problem?

Perhaps this rant is better located in the general section of the board.

 

[WesternLancer]

Detached from reality? absolutely not. It appears from other threads on this forum however, that it is your view that is king around here and no-one else's matters or is wrong - not the case I'm afraid.

I strongly believe that the privatised railway does not work. It is made worse when it is explained that - and the CalSleeper is a prime example - the service is heavily subsidised, and is currently being run by a serial government "third party provider". (Companies such as Serco prefer the term "Facilities Provider").

A government third party provider is a company that continuously bids on government contracts of wildly varying requirements despite having little or no relevant experience in the fields of the bids. The problem with this is that those companies (and their numbers operating in the UK are reducing as they fall out of favour with procurement executives and Government still reels from the Carillion crisis), bid with a generally exceptionally competitive bid on the basis that they intend to squeeze their sub-contractor suppliers on the delivery side of the contract.

The results of this process produces negative outcomes. Going back to the the point I made about heavy subsidy specifically on CalSleeper. Because it is so heavily funded by Transport for Scotland, it seemingly makes no sense to pay a TPP outfit who then sub-contract numerous functions again thus squeezing margin, pushing up subsidy levels, and leaving the quality of service open to issues due to the number of moving parts involved to deliver eg; a sandwich to an end user.

Transport for Scotland would do well at this point to release Serco from their obligations and bring the CalSleeper under it's remit and control. It would solve, not all, but numerous issues with the service in one swing of the bat.

Some well made points. Of course TS and equivs never want to "release Serco from their obligations and bring the CalSleeper under it's remit and control. It would solve, not all, but numerous issues with the service in one swing of the bat" as they would panic at the thought of having to sort it all out themselves, possibly with even less relevant experience - and no one else to blame...

Forgive my ignorance, but does the Scottish Parl have equiv scrutiny committees like the HoC does? Because what i would be expecting before too long would be the equivalent of the HoC Transport Select Committee to be calling an inquiry into the procurement, provision and roll out and impact on service delivery of CS new stock and service.

Frankly I would think this is what would concentrate the minds of the CS/Serco management (more than a week of them spending time every night on board perhaps...), plus shed some public and wider media spotlight on the issues, on CS and on SERCO (if it's really that bad).

They could also be calling TS officials to account on their part too.

This is what I'd be hoping Lilian Greenwood's HoC Transport Select Committee would be doing if things were genuinely bad.

 

[PHILIPE]

It goes via the E&G fairly regularly during disruption, so hopefully the crew will have the appropriate knowledge

If it's like GWRs Night Riviera the crews sign multiple routes and variations to travel between Exeter and Reading.

 

[mde]

Forgive my ignorance, but does the Scottish Parl have equiv scrutiny committees like the HoC does? Because what i would be expecting before too long would be the equivalent of the HoC Transport Select Committee to be calling an inquiry into the procurement, provision and roll out and impact on service delivery of CS new stock and service.

It does. In the SP it would be dealt with by the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee.

A frequent visitor to that committee is Mr Hynes from ScotRail / Network Rail, however, I don’t recall seeing anyone from Serco being called in front of it in recent years - perhaps it’s time for that to change.

 

[WesternLancer]

It does. In the SP it would be dealt with by the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee.

A frequent visitor to that committee is Mr Hynes from ScotRail / Network Rail, however, I don’t recall seeing anyone from Serco being called in front of it in recent years - perhaps it’s time for that to change.

Thanks

 

[Leisurefirst]

Yeah - I was miffed to find they did not 2TGR discount when other railcards were accepted IIRC. Assume it was cos 2TGR is a post privatised railcard so no legislative requirement to retain it which I thought the 1990s legislation protected.

You can get it if you book conventional tickets and berth fees but I was taken aback when CS call centre basically told me they don't sell such tickets and could thus not give me a price for one and I'd have to look it up myself basically - I thought all franchisees are obliged to sell full ticket range, but maybe not....

Cheers,
The annoyance of this is compounded by their initial response to their scrapping of the discount for berths to me was that the new trains are a "different product".
Therefore it made sense that when last year they could not provide the new trains that the discount was reinstated on the old stock and so I was able to refund my seats and I bought first class berths and we had meals, drinks and puddings, so doesn't everybody win?
Was on a Thursday night probably not fully booked so they got three times (?) as much money out of me.
Now they're operating old stock with no discount so I'll stick with the seats on a Monday night and some berths can stay empty?

 

[gordonjahn]

Cheers,
The annoyance of this is compounded by their initial response to their scrapping of the discount for berths to me was that the new trains are a "different product".
Therefore it made sense that when last year they could not provide the new trains that the discount was reinstated on the old stock and so I was able to refund my seats and I bought first class berths and we had meals, drinks and puddings, so doesn't everybody win?
Was on a Thursday night probably not fully booked so they got three times (?) as much money out of me.
Now they're operating old stock with no discount so I'll stick with the seats on a Monday night and some berths can stay empty?

I can see two sides - right now they want to keep empty rooms anyway as spares if they're not confident in the rolling stock, but equally if(/when?) things are working better but before Highlander roll-out, they might want to do a wee promo - something like a "classic room for two for £100 each way" voucher given out at a supermarket or with a magazine (and, obviously, they'd choose a brand with an appropriate demographic target) to both stress the stock a bit more and generate some positive word of mouth.

 

[Chrism20]

I can see two sides - right now they want to keep empty rooms anyway as spares if they're not confident in the rolling stock, but equally if(/when?) things are working better but before Highlander roll-out, they might want to do a wee promo - something like a "classic room for two for £100 each way" voucher given out at a supermarket or with a magazine (and, obviously, they'd choose a brand with an appropriate demographic target) to both stress the stock a bit more and generate some positive word of mouth.

It’s not a bad idea but I have to be honest if they are handing out promos or discounts the poor unfortunate guests who have had to put up with the nonsense over the last two months should be first in the queue.

 

[Tormod]

No sooner do I start considering food options on my sleeper to Inverness tonight, than I get a message to say there's none, bring your own. Serco strikes again. Thanks so much

 

[Bletchleyite]

No sooner do I start considering food options on my sleeper to Inverness tonight, than I get a message to say there's none, bring your own. Serco strikes again. Thanks so much

At least they told you, but it really is poor that they can't manage a decent service with either type of stock.

It's the lounge car that makes the Highlander. Without it it's a much lesser service.

 

[Essexman]

No sooner do I start considering food options on my sleeper to Inverness tonight, than I get a message to say there's none, bring your own. Serco strikes again. Thanks so much

Is that north of southbound? I’m going south from Inverness tomorrow so if no lounge car going north I assume there won’t be going south tomorrow.

 

[BRX]

It doesn't necessarily mean there's no lounge car - could be just that it hasn't got power or suchlike. So it's possible it will be fixed for the return service, not that they give the impression of making much effort in that regard at present.

 

[Tormod]

Is that north of southbound? I’m going south from Inverness tomorrow so if no lounge car going north I assume there won’t be going south tomorrow.

Going North

 

[swapmeetpete]

More likely lack of staff. At least they're trying to warn people. Take a big picnic and have your own party in the lounge.

 

[Darandio]

More likely lack of staff. At least they're trying to warn people. Take a big picnic and have your own party in the lounge.

Assuming they allow you in the lounge.

 

[Starmill]

The main lighting is never switched off in the seats, is it? Or is it meant to be in the new stock?

I am fairly sure it goes into 'night mode', no? Mood lighting only.

 

[swapmeetpete]

If there's no staff there no-one to stop you. (Not strictly true but humour me.)

 

[Tormod]

If there's no staff there no-one to stop you. (Not strictly true but humour me.)

Having had an excellent lunch in the GWR Pullman earlier I was looking forward to a comparison. Well, I've made it....

 

[sdrennan]

Looks like the stock will be a little late arriving at Edinburgh. No early boarding tonight
110 late leaving Polmadie

 

[Mainliner]

Assuming they allow you in the lounge.

Coincidentally, from one of the new grim Tripadvisor reports today:

“Next morning I rose around 05.15 (broad daylight by then of course) just as we were crossing the Firth of Forth on a lovely sunny morning. I then went to the lounge car to enjoy the view from the comfort of one of the leather sofas they have on the old trains. After a short while I was approached by Alex (he refused to give me his surname) the 'Train manager' who told me I must leave. "why?" "because the lounge is closed" "why is it closed?" "power supply issue" "but its daylight!, I just want to sit & view the scenery" " then you'll have to do it from your cabin, the lounge is closed"
(Note this is the old stock so no electric push buttons to go between carriages, also people had been wandering through the lounge on the quest to find a working toilet.)
After considering my options & not wanting to cause the other passengers to have to stay on this train from hell any longer that they had to, I returned to my cabin without causing an incident. From my cabin I watched the scenery through a window slightly bigger than those found on a Serco prison van (although not tinted!) How appropriate”

 

[800002]

No sooner do I start considering food options on my sleeper to Inverness tonight, than I get a message to say there's none, bring your own. Serco strikes again. Thanks so much

Would this be of any use?

 

[MrEd]

Coincidentally, from one of the new grim Tripadvisor reports today:

“Next morning I rose around 05.15 (broad daylight by then of course) just as we were crossing the Firth of Forth on a lovely sunny morning. I then went to the lounge car to enjoy the view from the comfort of one of the leather sofas they have on the old trains. After a short while I was approached by Alex (he refused to give me his surname) the 'Train manager' who told me I must leave. "why?" "because the lounge is closed" "why is it closed?" "power supply issue" "but its daylight!, I just want to sit & view the scenery" " then you'll have to do it from your cabin, the lounge is closed"
(Note this is the old stock so no electric push buttons to go between carriages, also people had been wandering through the lounge on the quest to find a working toilet.)
After considering my options & not wanting to cause the other passengers to have to stay on this train from hell any longer that they had to, I returned to my cabin without causing an incident. From my cabin I watched the scenery through a window slightly bigger than those found on a Serco prison van (although not tinted!) How appropriate”

To be fair, the reviewer (in the full review on TA) admits that the lounge car was in complete darkness throughout the journey, suggesting a complete power failure. In these circumstances, allowing members of the travelling public to sit in it would almost certainly be a no-no on health and safety grounds (it has no working lights, heating or air-conditioning for a start- even if it’s daylight, what happens when the train passes through a tunnel, and a passenger injures themselves by walking into the wall partition because they can’t see properly?). Even if they could perhaps have expressed themselves more politely, the staff are clearly in the right upholding these safety precautions- they’re there for a reason. If the lounge is merely closed due to a staff shortage, and the lights, heating and air conditioning are working properly, they may well let passengers use it as a seating area.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

To be fair, the reviewer (in the full review on TA) admits that the lounge car was in complete darkness throughout the journey, suggesting a complete power failure. In these circumstances, allowing members of the travelling public to sit in it would almost certainly be a no-no on health and safety grounds (it has no working lights, heating or air-conditioning for a start- even if it’s daylight, what happens when the train passes through a tunnel, and a passenger injures themselves by walking into the wall partition because they can’t see properly?). Even if they could perhaps have expressed themselves more politely, the staff are clearly in the right upholding these safety precautions- they’re there for a reason. If the lounge is merely closed due to a staff shortage, and the lights, heating and air conditioning are working properly, they may well let passengers use it as a seating area.

What’s the difference to a lounge with no lights and a sleeper cabin where you can turn all the lights off and say bump into the ladder in darkness?

 

[800002]

What’s the difference to a lounge with no lights and a sleeper cabin where you can turn all the lights off and say bump into the ladder in darkness?

I would presume that it would be the passengers choice, and not within the realistic or manageable control of the operator (TOC)

 

[Scotrail84]

Looks like the stock will be a little late arriving at Edinburgh. No early boarding tonight
110 late leaving Polmadie

Boarding at Edinburgh is 11pm under normal running.