Strat-tastic
Established Member
What is red zone working?
From https://safety.networkrail.co.uk/jargon-buster/red-zone-working/:What is red zone working?
A site of work if it is on or near the line and it has not been possible to set up a Green Zone
In the recent report into a near miss at Peterborough, the RAIB describe the "lookout warning" safe system of work as:What is red zone working?
Where one or more lookouts are positioned to provide enough warning to allow everyone involved to reach a position of safety at least ten seconds before any train or vehicle arrives at the site of work. Alternatively where a COSS is working alone and looking out for him/herself.
This was formerly known as Red Zone. Examples include site lookout and multiple lookouts.
What is red zone working?
And, as mentioned previously, it is a safe system.Working with all lines open to traffic (trains) with lookouts as protection.
Green Zone is where all lines are blocked via line blockages or possessions.
There is a hierarchy that has to be followed.
And, as mentioned previously, it is a safe system.
-Peter
Least prefered option, and not permitted in many locations.It is a safe system but only as safe as the individuals implementing it.
Every job has to be planned as green zone but if all options have been exhausted you then revert to red zone. This is classed as the least preferred option.
Least prefered option, and not permitted in many locations.
I doubt that it will; I'm sure may incidents have happened like this in the past and we still have red zone working.Correct, hence my opinion that it will be outlawed in all locations.
I was going to say that, but didn't for fear of being offensive to the deceased.
-Peter
I understand. I was just trying to be extra cautious.My comment was based on red zone working per-se not the incident itself.
I doubt that it will; I'm sure may incidents have happened like this in the past and we still have red zone working.
-Peter
Oh OK. I didn't know that. Sorry.It has been banned in some areas.and highly likely to be banned in others if not all.
Oh OK. I didn't know that. Sorry.
I think that this may prompt an investigation into areas where this could happen again and introducing safety features to stop it from occurring again. One time is too many.
-Peter
[Red zone] is a safe system but only as safe as the individuals implementing it.
The same can be said for Green Zone as well. Green Zone is all well and good, as long as it's planned properly and you are indeed within that Green Zone. Any safe system is only safe if it's properly planned, implemented, and the right system for the right job.
I personally think it’s ok as long as you have the correct personnel in place. I won’t put any staff on a COSS course or a lookout course if I don’t think they are ready.
I utilise my own staff when I scope works or do inspections, that’s because I trust them. I have also worked under a COSS’s safe system of work and felt anything but safe.
Well it is outlawed in some areas and as I mentioned earlier, productivity is affected.
Yes I agree, that said, the majority of serious incidents happen in red zone working and that’s why it is a ‘last resort’.
There is always the risk of human error and that applies to any industry.
Yes you did. But you were also suggesting that it should be outlawed everywhere, which I think is a knee-jerk reaction to a situation that will be under investigation for a while yet. It may still be discovered that a breakdown in the methods of working may not be the only causal factor and that there were other failings elsewhere that lead to this tragedy. Until such time as the RAIB have finished their investigation and published their report we can do nothing but speculate, which is a very poor basis on which to draw any meaningful conclusions or recommendations.
The same can be said for Green Zone as well. Green Zone is all well and good, as long as it's planned properly and you are indeed within that Green Zone. Any safe system is only safe if it's properly planned, implemented, and the right system for the right job.
Please point me to where I said that.
That’s odd as I can see them all..I'm afraid that's no longer possible. All of your posts preceding mine were very quickly edited to show no content and then this discussion was split off from another thread.
Let's move on please folks.
More green zone working and an overloaded signaller(s) are a bad combination, especially at some locations with multiple LBs that are given up and retaken for the passage of trains as well as the usual mix of T3s. All that is happening is the risk is moving from one group of workers to another with the added danger that those on the track will believe that they are totally protected. The whole process of safe working on the track needs looking at, especially to see if any new technologies can be used to protect track workers that directly locks out signalling controls (not including bi-direction lockouts that already exist).
The conflict of an ever increasingly busy railway and the need to put workers on the track to maintain it is not going to go away but the difficulty and pressure level keeps on rising.
We need to completely rethink protection. Line blockages and T3s are becoming increasingly shorter and shorter in duration. Unassisted lookout is falling out of favour. We will never completely remove risk, but there must be a way to do more. If mobile technology and communications were more reliable than it is I could dream of the COSS and signaller having to collaborate on the hand back of line blockages and positive confirmation of location and signal protection upon taking them, but alas it is not. Not to mention the monetary and time costs involved in such a process.