Class 89 GNER Service

[GrimShady]

Why was 89001 only kept on London - Leeds service when it was capable of 125mph?

Did it ever reach Edinburgh on MK4 services?

How many drivers were trained on it and was it drastically different from Class 91 in terms driving?

 

[Ianno87]

Excessive Pedant: It did reach Bradford Forster Square too.

 

[43096]

Why was 89001 only kept on London - Leeds service when it was capable of 125mph?

Did it ever reach Edinburgh on MK4 services?

How many drivers were trained on it and was it drastically different from Class 91 in terms driving?

Driver knowledge I believe. Keeping it on one route reduced the number of drivers to both train and to retain traction knowledge. Had it been used on the entire East Coast route there would be many more crews to keep “in ticket”, which would be difficult with a single loco.

 

[30907]

Why was 89001 only kept on London - Leeds service when it was capable of 125mph?

70%+ of London-Leeds is 125mph anyway.

As well as crewing issues, there's a simple diagramming issue: Edinburgh is too far for two return trips in a day, so a self-contained diagram would be very inefficient. A Leeds and a Bradford in a day (or was it even 2 Bradfords?) was more sensible.

 

[Ianno87]

70%+ of London-Leeds is 125mph anyway.

.

Though if a Leeds train is stopping, the duration actually doing 125 is much less than 70%

 

[GrimShady]

Thank you to all who responded.

Does anyone know what it was like to drive vs Class 91?

 

[Spartacus]

It's much the same reasons as why the 90s do Leeds services now. Wasn't it predominantly kept on a 'stopper' diagram as it had superior acceleration to a 91?

 

[hexagon789]

Thank you to all who responded.

Does anyone know what it was like to drive vs Class 91?

The controls are very similar; I gather that it was much surer on its feet than a 91 and quicker off the mark.

 

[Highlandspring]

I’m sure it did make to to Edinburgh at least once in Intercity days.

 

[gazthomas]

The controls are very similar; I gather that it was much surer on its feet than a 91 and quicker off the mark.

That's my understanding, the Co-Co wheel configuration and about 30% extra weight helping it with traction, issues with poor adhesion being a problem with 91s.

 

[Mag_seven]

I’m sure it did make to to Edinburgh at least once in Intercity days.

I'm not so sure about that - a quick internet search reveals no photographic evidence. There must be someone out there who can confirm or deny I would imagine!

 

[dubscottie]

It never made it to Edinburgh. It was out of service before the whole ECML was wired.

I think it was banned north of Newcastle anyway. It was also banned from Euston, Liverpool Lime St and north of Carlisle (Clearance issues).

 

[hexagon789]

That's my understanding, the Co-Co wheel configuration and about 30% extra weight helping it with traction, issues with poor adhesion being a problem with 91s.

Despite being slightly less powerful, comments suggest it was a very capable substitute for a 91.

I’m sure it did make to to Edinburgh at least once in Intercity days.

The scot-rail site says that 89001 only made one trip into Scotland. 08/10/1987 working a Crewe-Carstairs and return hauling 13 coaches on a load test over Beattock.

 

[Highlandspring]

Ah well there you go... this has prompted me to remember seeing a photo of it at Carstairs years ago on fotopic, hence I was sure it had been to Scotland, but obviously the finer details of what it was actually doing long since departed my brain.

 

[hexagon789]

Ah well there you go... this has prompted me to remember seeing a photo of it at Carstairs years ago on fotopic, hence I was sure it had been to Scotland, but obviously the finer details of what it was actually doing long since departed my brain.

I had no idea either way, it was only through looking by chance at the site that I found that out.

 

[Spartacus]

It never made it to Edinburgh. It was out of service before the whole ECML was wired.

I think it was banned north of Newcastle anyway. It was also banned from Euston, Liverpool Lime St and north of Carlisle (Clearance issues).

The ECML was certainly all electrified when it worked for GNER, and I think for about a year to Edinburgh in BR days, but I don't ever recall it doing anything to Edinburgh in any case.

I suspect it was more a case of not being cleared rather than being specifically banned, combined with the aforementioned crewing issues.

 

[hexagon789]

The ECML was certainly all electrified when it worked for GNER, and I think for about a year to Edinburgh in BR days, but I don't ever recall it doing anything to Edinburgh in any case.

I suspect it was more a case of not being cleared rather than being specifically banned, combined with the aforementioned crewing issues.

It was restricted to King's Cross-Leeds/Bradford under GNER. Under BR though it doesn't seem to have found much use on service trains on the ECML, more specials it seems.

90s seem to have been preferred as 91 substitutes even back then, presumably traction knowledge again being a factor

 

[dubscottie]

It was stored unserviceable in mid/late 1990 and never worked for BR again (I think it was used at BN to pre-heat stock for a while after that). The ECML electrification was not finished until 1991.

89001 was a tall loco so where it could run was restricted. It tripped the OHLE in quite a few locations I believe.

 

[hexagon789]

It was stored unserviceable in mid/late 1990 and never worked for BR again (I think it was used at BN to pre-heat stock for a while after that). The ECML electrification was not finished until 1991.

89001 was a tall loco so where it could run was restricted. It tripped the OHLE in quite a few locations I believe.

I believe GNER used it to preheat stock, not sure if BR did.

 

[GusB]

http://www.traintesting.com/Class_89.htm

Has some information about the 89, including the following photograph:
http://www.traintesting.com/images/Beattock_load_tests.jpg

Pictured at Elvanfoot on Beattock bank on 8th October 1987, the loco is undertaking a load test when it started from a stand and pushed a class 86 plus 6 coaches whilst also hauling 9 International coaches plus 3 Intercity vehicles.

Tim Harris

 

[hexagon789]

http://www.traintesting.com/Class_89.htm

Has some information about the 89, including the following photograph:
http://www.traintesting.com/images/Beattock_load_tests.jpg

About 680 tonnes plus it's own 105t. Quite impressive. Though at 4,286kW it is a bit more powerful than an 86.

 

[yorkie]

It was stored unserviceable in mid/late 1990 and never worked for BR again (I think it was used at BN to pre-heat stock for a while after that). The ECML electrification was not finished until 1991.

It did work in service for GNER though:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54018467@N00/24803824171

89001 arrives at Leeds with the 11.36 Bradford Forster Square-London King's Cross
Taken on November 21, 1997

https://www.flickr.com/photos/12297585@N05/37967757454/

89001 on the 07:05 Kings Cross to Leeds at Hitchin 10/6/1999.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/billatkinson2/32127224670/

89001 working 1D41 1510 LONDON KING'S CROSS - LEEDS, passing Broad Fen Lane, Claypole on 28th September 2000.

 

[hexagon789]

It did work in service for GNER though:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54018467@N00/24803824171


https://www.flickr.com/photos/12297585@N05/37967757454/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/billatkinson2/32127224670/

I think it lasted with GNER in passenger service from March 1997 until some point in 2001 when it suffered a major failure; it was then used to heat coaching stock until moving to Barrow Hill in late 2004.

 

[dubscottie]

It did work in service for GNER though:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54018467@N00/24803824171


https://www.flickr.com/photos/12297585@N05/37967757454/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/billatkinson2/32127224670/

I know it worked for GNER but I was pointing out that it could not have made it to Edinburgh under its own power in BR days as it was withdrawn before the wiring was finished.

 

[GrimShady]

About 680 tonnes plus it's own 105t. Quite impressive. Though at 4,286kW it is a bit more powerful than an 86.

That is an impressive picture!

 

[hexagon789]

That is an impressive picture!

Perhaps they were simulating the weight of a sleeping car train, rather as the 91s were originally planned to haul?

 

[Taunton]

I seem to recall in GNER days it was commonly sat in the siding at Kings Cross by the outer end of Platform 1. Was it regarded as a sort of Thunderbird?

 

[MatthewRead]

I think it lasted with GNER in passenger service from March 1997 until some point in 2001 when it suffered a major failure; it was then used to heat coaching stock until moving to Barrow Hill in late 2004.

J&K video's East Coast Main Line Memories 1975-2008 says it ran from 1996-2000.

 

[hexagon789]

J&K video's East Coast Main Line Memories 1975-2008 says it ran from 1996-2000.

Upon looking into it, it seems it was withdrawn suffering traction motor failure in 2000 but was transferred to Doncaster in 2001 which seems to be where the date mix-up comes from on my part.

 

[alexl92]

I’ve only ever heard good things about 89001; is there any particular reason why only one was built in the end?