Never heard of that publication before, - nor have I heard of interviews from a comic that are quoted in a serious discussion.Train comic
Never heard of that publication before, - nor have I heard of interviews from a comic that are quoted in a serious discussion.Train comic
This happened to me on the central line some time ago. It was a late train - 23:00 as I recall - so a number of the passengers may have consumed some liquid - and a very slow derailment at wrongly set points was not welcome. In the end the driver opened one of the doors between carriages and people relieved themselves that way. It was slightly more difficult for the women as the driver needed to be there for safety reasons. We were there for a few hours before detraining from the front and walking to the next station.Not really the same - you can bring your own food with you, bringing a Porta potty might be frowned upon, and there are priority seats.
On metro services the theory is that you get off, hope the station toilet is working, and by the time you are done the next train will be coming in for you.
But that doesn’t help if your train doesn’t have toilets and gets stuck out on the line......
I dread to think what happens when a crushloaded tube gets stuck for hours - must be a shattering experience for anyone who can’t hold out.
I was on a LNWR service from Liverpool to Euston on Tuesday morning. It was the 8.33 departure and both toilets were out of order. We got to Birmingham New St where a unit that came in from Crewe coupled up and that only had one working toilet too. So 3 out of 4 toilets on what i think was an 8 car train, were out of order. The driver did say we could move in to the other unit but it was that full, it was hardly worth it.
For a journey that long, i didn't think it was acceptable for 3 toilets to be out of order.
"We'll be here for ten minutes, please make sure you're back by then."
Then it's up to the individual depending on their own confidence or worry.
I dread to think what happens when a crushloaded tube gets stuck for hours - must be a shattering experience for anyone who can’t hold out.
One thing that seems obvious to me is that retention tank toilets should have an 'emergency dump onto track' facility, for use only when the train is stranded with no working toilets due to all the tanks being full.
Do modern people use the toilet half as much as people did fifty years ago? I highly doubt it.
I had assumed (perhaps naively) that the reduction in toilets on mark 3 coaches from two to one (and mark 4s only having one per coach from new) was due to there being insufficient space under the floors to fit more than one CET (Controlled Emission Toilet) tank per carriage. That doesn't however explain why Northern's new class 331s only have one toilet, even on a 4-car set (although I could be wrong on that since I'm going off a single document found on the internet which may be out of date). Is the one CET tank per carriage thing an actual limit or is it just cost-cutting / cramming in more seats?A standard BR intercity coach had two toilets. A modern design, just one. BR 'cross-country' three-car regional express DMUs had four toilets. Class 170s doing similar work have two.
Mark 3 sleepers have had CETs from new, I believe - and have two toilets. Both at the same end, because the underframe only has space for the tank at one end, but then they were in Mark 1 and Mark 2 stock anyway.I had assumed (perhaps naively) that the reduction in toilets on mark 3 coaches from two to one (and mark 4s only having one per coach from new) was due to there being insufficient space under the floors to fit more than one CET (Controlled Emission Toilet) tank per carriage. That doesn't however explain why Northern's new class 331s only have one toilet, even on a 4-car set (although I could be wrong on that since I'm going off a single document found on the internet which may be out of date). Is the one CET tank per carriage thing an actual limit or is it just cost-cutting / cramming in more seats?
I would imagine using a urinal on a moving train would be an interesting experience. Not one I would wish to try out!One thing that would help (and I think I saw it somewhere - Germany?) would be to install urinals as well as sit-down toilets, in the same cubicle if desired. A waterless urinal puts no liquid into the tank other than the actual urine, and so it would fill up far more slowly if everyone able to use it instead of the seated toilet does so.
I would imagine using a urinal on a moving train would be an interesting experience. Not one I would wish to try out!
And a class 195 doing similar work has just one.A standard BR intercity coach had two toilets. A modern design, just one. BR 'cross-country' three-car regional express DMUs had four toilets. Class 170s doing similar work have two.
Modern vacuum flush toilets don't really draw that much water in with a single flush though do they? The saving of tank space from this sounds pretty minimal.One thing that would help (and I think I saw it somewhere - Germany?) would be to install urinals as well as sit-down toilets, in the same cubicle if desired. A waterless urinal puts no liquid into the tank other than the actual urine, and so it would fill up far more slowly if everyone able to use it instead of the seated toilet does so.
Modern vacuum flush toilets don't really draw that much water in with a single flush though do they? The saving of tank space from this sounds pretty minimal.
I think one tank per vehicle is a limit in specific cases (such as the mark 3 coach). It isn't a limit in the general case - the class 350/4s all have vehicles which contain two toilet tanks. I'm sure there are several other examples - 444?Is the one CET tank per carriage thing an actual limit or is it just cost-cutting / cramming in more seats?
I think one tank per vehicle is a limit in specific cases (such as the mark 3 coach). It isn't a limit in the general case - the class 350/4s all have vehicles which contain two toilet tanks. I'm sure there are several other examples - 444?
Even if you can only have one per carriage on a modern train because of all the miniaturised equipment we now feel the need to cart about, surely we can at least have one on every carriage.
I had assumed (perhaps naively) that the reduction in toilets on mark 3 coaches from two to one (and mark 4s only having one per coach from new)
Modern vacuum flush toilets don't really draw that much water in with a single flush though do they? The saving of tank space from this sounds pretty minimal.
Not a huge amount, but every little helps, as it were.
Interesting, I didn't realise the mark 3 sleepers had CETs. I agree completely with your last sentence, there should be a toilet in each and every carriage (for long-distance trains at least).Mark 3 sleepers have had CETs from new, I believe - and have two toilets. Both at the same end, because the underframe only has space for the tank at one end, but then they were in Mark 1 and Mark 2 stock anyway.
Even if you can only have one per carriage on a modern train because of all the miniaturised equipment we now feel the need to cart about, surely we can at least have one on every carriage.
Interesting observation, so there is room for multiple tanks under a single vehicle on some modern units at least.I think one tank per vehicle is a limit in specific cases (such as the mark 3 coach). It isn't a limit in the general case - the class 350/4s all have vehicles which contain two toilet tanks.
Did they have seperate tanks for each toilet or a single CET tank shared between the two loos as I assume is the case on the mark 3 sleepers?The mk 4 coaches did have two toilets per carriage in standard until GNER's Mallard refurb. I think in standard only the coach with the accessible toilet had one and I think first class only ever had one.
An interesting point; does any train with CETs currently drain the sinks onto the track?Surely the key thing would be not to drain the sinks into the toilet tanks at all. Drain them onto the ballast instead.
Indeed Network Rail's removal of charges is a good thing. Toilet charges are one of the things I hate; smaller stations still charge though (Fishguard & Goodwick for example and perhaps Inverness although the former is a council public toilet not a facility provided by the railway companies).Scrapping toilet charges at major stations is at least one positive thing that's been done. I'd often wait to pee on the train to avoid paying at the station, which is ridiculous in view of the relative cost of operating loos in trains vs buildings.
An interesting point; does any train with CETs currently drain the sinks onto the track?
Did they have seperate tanks for each toilet or a single CET tank shared between the two loos as I assume is the case on the mark 3 sleepers?
Quite a lot of rolling stock with a vacuum toilet is still built with the sink discharging onto the track. You can see the water trailing out over the bogies on some electrostars!
Scrapping toilet charges at major stations is at least one positive thing that's been done. I'd often wait to pee on the train to avoid paying at the station, which is ridiculous in view of the relative cost of operating loos in trains vs buildings.