Mountain Man
Member
- Joined
- 15 Jun 2019
- Messages
- 340
And a lot of people complain about Buffet coffeeExcept lots of people ARE complaining about the quality of the coffee from the trolley compared to the buffets...
And a lot of people complain about Buffet coffeeExcept lots of people ARE complaining about the quality of the coffee from the trolley compared to the buffets...
They rip out much needed seats and put in a buffet?Perhaps but apparently there is a review going on now and GWR are finally admitting there is a problem. Eventually a compromise will have to be found.
For the sake of one minute to sign the petition it's better than not bothering and admitting defeat. What is the worst that could happen?
Well if they were to convert the 9 car 802s to have buffets and ran them on the wofe line and let the 5 cars run the local stuff to bristol and oxford etc without a buffet it would work. The loss of 16 odd seats from a wofe 9 car would probably be justifiable. But of course we are stuck with pairs of 5s down here from December which probably kills off the idea sadly.They rip out much needed seats and put in a buffet?
I simply do not believe the buffets are needed or make any sense. A trolley is fine. I grew up on the Golden Valley line and have lived in Devon. Seating capacity is a far bigger necessity. Ripping out seats for a buffet would be a backward stepWell if they were to convert the 9 car 802s to have buffets and ran them on the wofe line and let the 5 cars run the local stuff to bristol and oxford etc without a buffet it would work. The loss of 16 odd seats from a wofe 9 car would probably be justifiable. But of course we are stuck with pairs of 5s down here from December which probably kills off the idea sadly.
With the greatest respect I live and work on the route from Plymouth and I can confirm there is a very big demand for buffets. Customers and staff alike simply Do not like the trolley service down here and lately it is almost always static anyway. Also let's not forget that on the Paddington to Penzance route, other than padd and reading there are very limited retail outlets at stations on route and people are likely to want to buy food on the train, especially if heading eastbound.I simply do not believe the buffets are needed or make any sense. A trolley is fine. I grew up on the Golden Valley line and have lived in Devon. Seating capacity is a far bigger necessity. Ripping out seats for a buffet would be a backward step
I believe its a case of how you phrase the question to people.With the greatest respect I live and work on the route from Plymouth and I can confirm there is a very big demand for buffets. Customers and staff alike simply Do not like the trolley service down here and lately it is almost always static anyway. Also let's not forget that on the Paddington to Penzance route, other than padd and reading there are very limited retail outlets at stations on route and people are likely to want to buy food on the train, especially if heading eastbound.
With the greatest respect I live and work on the route from Plymouth and I can confirm there is a very big demand for buffets. Customers and staff alike simply Do not like the trolley service down here and lately it is almost always static anyway. Also let's not forget that on the Paddington to Penzance route, other than padd and reading there are very limited retail outlets at stations on route and people are likely to want to buy food on the train, especially if heading eastbound.
The presentation is 99% of it. Most pub meals these days are foodservice, not freshly cooked. People still buy them, indeed they appreciate how quickly they show up, which wouldn't be possible were they freshly cooked.
Done.
That's a very good way of deciding what to withdraw - but a very poor way of determining what to introduce, which does require some interpretation.The key thing about this situation is that GWR don't need to have surveys or judge whether petitions are representative. They have access to the sales figures which will trump opinions eveytime. If buffets sell more than trolleys they will have a buffet and if the reverse is true they will have a trolley.
Well if they were to convert the 9 car 802s to have buffets and ran them on the wofe line and let the 5 cars run the local stuff to bristol and oxford etc without a buffet it would work. The loss of 16 odd seats from a wofe 9 car would probably be justifiable. But of course we are stuck with pairs of 5s down here from December which probably kills off the idea sadly.
What statistical evidence do you have? Showing that given the choice, passengers want a buffet not seats.With the greatest respect I live and work on the route from Plymouth and I can confirm there is a very big demand for buffets.
Yes, and you can also say GWR are missing an entire coach of seats with the addition of 2 pointless kitchens.Or you could say, LNER, Anglia and TPE are incompetent for missing out on an easy way to add seating capacity.
Given that it`s unlikely any survey for the retention of a buffet was ever done by GWR or the DfT, this is meaningless. Have you ever used this line and do you know people that do. If so you probably wouldn`t come to that conclusion.What statistical evidence do you have? Showing that given the choice, passengers want a buffet not seats.
A 1 sided question asking if they want a buffet would be meaningless
We’ve been round this debate before. The 9 car 802 sets were largely built for other workings with the 5 car 802 sets for West of England services (with the need to split at Plymouth).
There wasn’t justification financially at the time for 9 car sets beyond Plymouth outside peak holidays times AND the full Cornwall half-hourly service.
To do what you would suggest from the new timetable would require more IET sets to be ordered. Yes the stock currently runs as 9/10 cars into Cornwall but that’s an interim position without the half-hourly local service, without hourly Paddington to Cheltenham’s, and gaps in the Worcester service etc which are filled with the new timetable requiring more IETs in the Thames Valley than at present.
Yes. I've lived the majority of my life on GWR routes, first on the Golden Valley line and latterly in DevonGiven that it`s unlikely any survey for the retention of a buffet was ever done by GWR or the DfT, this is meaningless. Have you ever used this line and do you know people that do. If so you probably wouldn`t come to that conclusion.
Most is a gross over-statement. It may be the case in Wethers and Brewers' Fayre but of the 10-15 pubs round where I am not a single one uses anything 'food service' related.
Why is there no campaign for buffet cars on Weymouth to Waterloo or Southampton to Victoria trains? Are SWR, (trolley from Southampton I believe), journey time 2 3/4 hours, and SR, nothing at all, journey time 2 1/2 hours, starving their customers?
To perhaps put this GWR 'issue' in perspective (just another RMT campaign, I now understand) what is the longest journey on NR metals without any on-board refreshment service provided? A second point would be which is the longest journey with only a trolley. Given my example above, don't forget that a passenger is not interested about whether a change of train is needed, especially when there is only limited time between connections. They are only interested in what's available during the journey. I cite my 3 1/2 hours but I expect there are worse.Ironically there is an unused buffet counter on the 444s used on Weymouth trains that is currently being removed for more seating.
….And 2 kitchens doing absolutely nothing (the equivalent of 88 standard seats) doesn`t constitute a waste of space on 2x5 IET`s as opposed to losing only 32 seats for 2 mini buffets?I believe its a case of how you phrase the question to people.
Do you want a buffet? Yes
Do you want to lose a large numbers of seats of a crowded train? No
To perhaps put this GWR 'issue' in perspective (just another RMT campaign, I now understand) what is the longest journey on NR metals without any on-board refreshment service provided?
….And 2 kitchens doing absolutely nothing (the equivalent of 88 standard seats) doesn`t constitute a waste of space on 2x5 IET`s as opposed to losing only 32 seats for 2 mini buffets?
Longest with only a trolley - and allowing connections - must surely be Wick to Penzance - at least until Scotrail gets buffets in on all Highland Main Line services.To perhaps put this GWR 'issue' in perspective (just another RMT campaign, I now understand) what is the longest journey on NR metals without any on-board refreshment service provided? A second point would be which is the longest journey with only a trolley. Given my example above, don't forget that a passenger is not interested about whether a change of train is needed, especially when there is only limited time between connections. They are only interested in what's available during the journey. I cite my 3 1/2 hours but I expect there are worse.
The two that I can think of are those new long through runs on LNR from Liverpool to London (though I doubt that many people do that as a through trip, though some certainly will and my Dad did do Liverpool to Bletchley) and some Waterloo-Weymouth services which are also about a 4.5 hour run, though most have a trolley from Bournemouth I believe.
A full Lancaster-Carlisle via the Cumbrian Coast is about 3 hours I think?
I've been on that in Virgin days when platform alterations meant both buffet crews failed to board so the whole run was uncatered! As others have said, advertising it and not delivering is even worse than normally running it uncatered.Longest with only a trolley - and allowing connections - must surely be Wick to Penzance - at least until Scotrail gets buffets in on all Highland Main Line services.
Longest through run with only a trolley will be the Aberdeen to Penzance XC run - while noting that it's not actually very good as a way of getting from Aberdeen to Penzance.
I've been on that in Virgin days when platform alterations meant both buffet crews failed to board so the whole run was uncatered! As others have said, advertising it and not delivering is even worse than normally running it uncatered.
Hmmm...difficult choice, seat or buffet? I’ll take seats please.
It’s all well and good starting these petitions, but when seats have been removed to install one and the company say to those who then complain of overcrowding “it’s what you asked for” the same people complain again!
As with all petitions though, if everyone who signs it had been making purchases from the buffet it wouldn’t have been removed in the first place.