pitdiver
Member
Of course the ECML is important. It always was and always will be. Don't forget it's where Sir Nigel ran his locomotives. Forget a certain Bill Stanier.
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One could argue that the S&D was just a wagonway on stone blocks, unlike the Liverpool & Manchester which was the first proper passenger railway. Just saying!
Middle of nowhere? The only highlights that Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield have is:
Derby: They make trains... big whoop, they make trains elsewhere
Nottingham: Famous for Robin Hood..
Sheffield: Hardly used airport....
The Midland Mainline is a secondary mainline in much the same way the Chiltern Mainline is and nothing will change.
The ECML on the other hand can boost a record 4 beautiful Cathedrals minimum!
A geography fail my boy.
Ps a very nice cathedral. Well worth a visit. Also appeared in the recent avengers film!
And until HS1 opened, the highest speed railway line in this country.
Only kidding - I’m disappointed - I expected much more of a broadside .
On a serious note, it’s a shame there doesn’t seem to be much in Darlington to commemorate its “first railway” status - “Head of Steam” got quite a poor write up on here a few years back.
In your opinion, would it justify a detour from a day trip to the (nearby) Shildon museum? It’s within striking distance.
(Apologies if OT for the thread, although I’ll be using the ECML to get there!).
Middle of nowhere? The only highlights that Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield have is:
Derby: They make trains... big whoop, they make trains elsewhere
Nottingham: Famous for Robin Hood..
Sheffield: Hardly used airport....
The Midland Mainline is a secondary mainline in much the same way the Chiltern Mainline is and nothing will change.
The ECML on the other hand can boost a record 4 beautiful Cathedrals minimum!
Mod Note: Post #1 originally in this thread.
Saying the ECML is important is neither here nor there, how do you measure importance though?
The ECML is overhyped because it was the route of a famous Steam train, and it has a railway museum on it.
The most important 'artery' out of London is probably the Brighton Mainline or the South Western Mainline.
In terms of intercity lines, I'd say the WCML was the most important, with the other 3 being roughly the same in terms of 'importance'.
If you look at the roads, the ECML runs almost parrallel to the A1 which is a bit backwatery compared to the M1 (MML) or M6 (WCML)
In terms of how many major places it serves. It is the primary Anglo-Scottish route for a start, as well as serving the important cities of Leeds, York and Newcastle.
Only tilting trains can do 125mph on the WCML, which is only 2 classes of train - the MML only became 125mph in about 2013-14, after HS1 opened - and both it and the GWML have shorter sections of 125mph than the ECML.Along with the GWML (and the WCML?)
The MML also has 125mph speeds
I think the primary Anglo Scottish route is now the WCML.
As an East coaster myself I'm reluctant to say it but the WCML is probably slightly more important. That said the ECML is by no means overhyped and the fact it serves Leeds, the busiest station outside of London says a lot.
You could do both in the day easily. Head of steam is interesting but is really struggling for funding. It is only a small museum so wont take long. It has it's own station as well.
I am not at home so cant link any of my pictures so you can get a sense of the place.
Get it right...The MML is nothing like the Chiltern Mainline, it's a proper 125mph Intercity line.
Doncaster has nothing they don't even make trains there, only repaint clapped out old ones!
Which airport is accessed from Sheffield station?Sheffield: Hardly used airport....
I think the primary Anglo Scottish route is now the WCML.
The MML serves the East Midlands and Sheffield which have a greater population than Newcastle, Edinburgh and York
Depends where you're going in Scotland. Kings Cross to Edinburgh is four hours twenty minutes whilst Euston to Glasgow is four hours thirty. Meanwhile Euston to Edinburgh is five hours and forty minutes. So it's a no-brainer to go via the ECML if you want Edinburgh or many places that you change at Edinburgh to get to. I can happily concede that the WCML is more important when it comes to Anglo-Scot traffic than it used to be prior to the West Coast Route Modernisation but the primary route? I don't think so. Both are important.
Interesting choice there you've used! Just what do you class as the "East Midlands" that's potentially a huge area you've chosen (with no definition of what you're actually including) and then just picked three cities to represent the ECML! How about we include Leeds? Or Doncaster? Or Teesside? Or Grantham? Or Durham? Or Tyneside more generally than just Newcastle?
Only tilting trains can do 125mph on the WCML, which is only 2 classes of train - the MML only became 125mph in about 2013-14, after HS1 opened - and both it and the GWML have shorter sections of 125mph than the ECML.
Fair enough, but I'd say nowadays, Glasgow is the more important city.
Out of interest, how come the SWML is considered more important than the ECML?
Middle of nowhere? The only highlights that Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield have is:
Derby: They make trains... big whoop, they make trains elsewhere
Nottingham: Famous for Robin Hood..
Sheffield: Hardly used airport....
The Midland Mainline is a secondary mainline in much the same way the Chiltern Mainline is and nothing will change.
The ECML on the other hand can boost a record 4 beautiful Cathedrals minimum!
Fair enough, but I'd say nowadays, Glasgow is the more important city.
By East Midlands, I mean't the 3 cities; Leicester, Nottingham, Derby which have a large population
Not quite sure how the Scots would feel being reduced to one city...
Depends where you're going in Scotland. Kings Cross to Edinburgh is four hours twenty minutes whilst Euston to Glasgow is four hours thirty. Meanwhile Euston to Edinburgh is five hours and forty minutes. So it's a no-brainer to go via the ECML if you want Edinburgh or many places that you change at Edinburgh to get to. I can happily concede that the WCML is more important when it comes to Anglo-Scot traffic than it used to be prior to the West Coast Route Modernisation but the primary route? I don't think so. Both are important.
On the east coast route between Edinburgh and London, Virgin Trains’ market share against airlines was 37%, up two percentage points on its previous peak in 2014. On the west coast, Virgin Trains’ market share between Glasgow and London was 27%.
Yet the station statistics consistently shew that York deals with significantly more passengers than Newcastle.Leeds and Newcastle yes, but York? It's a nice city but, not one I'd class as major.
Only kidding - I’m disappointed - I expected much more of a broadside .
On a serious note, it’s a shame there doesn’t seem to be much in Darlington to commemorate its “first railway” status - “Head of Steam” got quite a poor write up on here a few years back.
In your opinion, would it justify a detour from a day trip to the (nearby) Shildon museum? It’s within striking distance.
(Apologies if OT for the thread, although I’ll be using the ECML to get there!).
Some interesting figures in the below article
https://www.globalrailwayreview.com...avelling-scotland-london-via-rail-rather-air/
So the ECML is more competitive against air travel than the WCML.
Also interesting to note that as of 2017, more people fly between London and Scotland than take the train.
Perhaps not surprising as 4+ hour journeys aren’t really competitive with flying for “out and back in a day” type business trips.
No doubt leisure travellers often find flying cheaper than travelling by train.