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Petition to bring back the buffet on GWR

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Busaholic

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Surely Morrisons stays open because they make a profit flogging food to people? This is rather a conspiracy theory.

If they just wanted to land-sit, they could close the store and still do that.

Anyway, if it's just overnight stabling and tanking couldn't arrangements be made to do that at the station?
What's 'conspiracy theory' got to do with it? If I were Morrison's I'd be staying put too as long as poss just in case. When it opened in 1989 as a Safeways it was, within a year or two, that company's second best performer measured in turnover per sq ft, and best performer in turnover per employee (I had an acquaintance in management there) but then there were no other supermarkets worthy of the name for miles around. The pecking order in supermarkets in that square mile just to the east of Penzance is Sainsburys, then Tesco, then Morrisons. Sainsburys is largest, and has triple, maybe quadruple, the car parking space of the other two. It also retains full cardboard/paper/bottle/plastic recycling bins, which Morrisons ditched in their entirety: people, myself included, combine visits to the two. Back to topic, if Morrisons close then they don't have to be 'bribed' with relocation money. Sainsburys overpaid for their site, in a sense, because its use as a helicopter base meant they paid the company operating the helicopters an amount to allow for relocation, when any sensible person could see that the company operating the Scilly helicopters were going to say 'thanks, walk away and close down, which duly happened.
 
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Geoff DC

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A good compromise would be to add a compliant buffet with 1st class to the GTI HSTs (2+5) similar to Scxotrail and extend some services to BRistol from PZ.
That way Cornish & far SW passengers can enjoy an Inter City Service for the bulk of the journey - only switching to the commuter spec IETs at Bristol for the short hop to London
 

Busaholic

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I know absolutely nobody working on the railways in any capacity, but I bumped into an old friend today in WH Smith as he was looking at rail mags. He travels from Penzance to both Plymouth and Paddington quite regularly, sometimes availing himself of the sleeper or Pullman service to/from the latter. He's quite chatty, has two regular pubs near Penzance and in Plymouth that he frequents and comes across FGW staff in both. They tell him things knowing that nothing will get back to management to identify them, and today he was telling me that catering staff were fearing for their long-term jobs because of the huge drop in turnover since the buffets closed e.g. £300 takings becoming £30. By-the-by, his journey yesterday came with the on-board announcement 'the catering trolley is situated between coaches D and E' (may have got the letters wrong, but you get the principle.) If that's not an admission of failure, I don't know what is.
 

pt_mad

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At 9:56 seconds. What about an arrangement like that with the equipment and/or stock sitting on a sort of compact shelf type setup? Surely wouldn't take up the space of too many seats?
 

stj

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I know absolutely nobody working on the railways in any capacity, but I bumped into an old friend today in WH Smith as he was looking at rail mags. He travels from Penzance to both Plymouth and Paddington quite regularly, sometimes availing himself of the sleeper or Pullman service to/from the latter. He's quite chatty, has two regular pubs near Penzance and in Plymouth that he frequents and comes across FGW staff in both. They tell him things knowing that nothing will get back to management to identify them, and today he was telling me that catering staff were fearing for their long-term jobs because of the huge drop in turnover since the buffets closed e.g. £300 takings becoming £30. By-the-by, his journey yesterday came with the on-board announcement 'the catering trolley is situated between coaches D and E' (may have got the letters wrong, but you get the principle.) If that's not an admission of failure, I don't know what is.
Maybe thats what GWR want so they can get rid due to low demand.
 

broadgage

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A good compromise would be to add a compliant buffet with 1st class to the GTI HSTs (2+5) similar to Scxotrail and extend some services to BRistol from PZ.
That way Cornish & far SW passengers can enjoy an Inter City Service for the bulk of the journey - only switching to the commuter spec IETs at Bristol for the short hop to London

Yes but, that would lead to unfavourable comparisons between old trains and the shiny new IETs "enjoy the buffet on a 40 year old train, a facility not available on new trains"
And of course it wont help the longer distance travellers at the London end of the route.
GWR are determined not to allow a buffet on IETs, and re-introducing a buffet on the old HSTs might be considered as setting a precedent.

And as regards the Morrisons supermarket blocking extension of Penzance depot, I consider it possible that Morrisons ARE holding on to the site in the hope of a generous offer. Supermarkets are hard nosed businesses but it seems reasonable to consider not just trading profits but also asset values.
A business might retain a loss making outlet if they judged this to be worthwhile to protect the value of the site.
 

Ianno87

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Yes but, that would lead to unfavourable comparisons between old trains and the shiny new IETs "enjoy the buffet on a 40 year old train, a facility not available on new trains"
And of course it wont help the longer distance travellers at the London end of the route.
GWR are determined not to allow a buffet on IETs, and re-introducing a buffet on the old HSTs might be considered as setting a precedent.

And as regards the Morrisons supermarket blocking extension of Penzance depot, I consider it possible that Morrisons ARE holding on to the site in the hope of a generous offer. Supermarkets are hard nosed businesses but it seems reasonable to consider not just trading profits but also asset values.
A business might retain a loss making outlet if they judged this to be worthwhile to protect the value of the site.

Supermarkets also buy plots of land just to stop competitors buying them instead!
 

davetheguard

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I know absolutely nobody working on the railways in any capacity, but I bumped into an old friend today in WH Smith as he was looking at rail mags. He travels from Penzance to both Plymouth and Paddington quite regularly, sometimes availing himself of the sleeper or Pullman service to/from the latter. He's quite chatty, has two regular pubs near Penzance and in Plymouth that he frequents and comes across FGW staff in both. They tell him things knowing that nothing will get back to management to identify them, and today he was telling me that catering staff were fearing for their long-term jobs because of the huge drop in turnover since the buffets closed e.g. £300 takings becoming £30. By-the-by, his journey yesterday came with the on-board announcement 'the catering trolley is situated between coaches D and E' (may have got the letters wrong, but you get the principle.) If that's not an admission of failure, I don't know what is.

I travelled from Devon to London & back yesterday. On the up journey, the trolley finally became available two hours in to the journey; but at a fixed location. On the way back, after arriving at Paddington station later than expected after unexpected engineering work on London Underground, we got on board, hot & thirsty, after a trip on a very hot Bakerloo line. The trolley finally appeared as we arrived at Tiverton Parkway; once again two hours in to the journey.

Needless to say, we won't get caught like this again; it'll be flasks or station-bought teas from now on. GWR are going to have to work hard to create a reliable catering offer if they are to rebuild trust on this issue.
 

Bletchleyite

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To be fair they are not the only ones. I'm on a ScotRail Inverness to Edinburgh at the minute, and it is a last minute swap from HST to 170+158 due to HST failure. This is in itself no terrible thing because it's busy and the capacity is a little higher (at the expense of lower 1st capacity) but it's pleasant enough - however either there's no catering or the trolley is stuck in the back half. Fortunately I did take a small flask of tea from the hotel room :)
 

irish_rail

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I guess part of the problem right now (and it does seem particularly rare to see a trolley the past couple of weeks) is that GWR have employed all these additional staff to work the trollies, but shock horror, said staff are choosing to take their annual leave right at the time of year they are needed the most on the west country services.
 

Bletchleyite

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I guess part of the problem right now (and it does seem particularly rare to see a trolley the past couple of weeks) is that GWR have employed all these additional staff to work the trollies, but shock horror, said staff are choosing to take their annual leave right at the time of year they are needed the most on the west country services.

Now here's me thinking that not everyone got to take leave at the same time. At least it's only trolleys - cancellations for this sort of reason seem to come up annually too.
 

Mag_seven

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Getting back to the original subject of the thread, how is the petition coming along? Has it been presented to DfT/GWR yet?
 

PHILIPE

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Getting back to the original subject of the thread, how is the petition coming along? Has it been presented to DfT/GWR yet?

I've got an idea that the DFT as the instigators will throw their copy into the bin
 
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HamworthyGoods

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Getting back to the original subject of the thread, how is the petition coming along? Has it been presented to DfT/GWR yet?
DfT chose a train purposely without a buffet so why would they be interested in a petition?
 

FGW_DID

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GWR are determined not to allow a buffet on IETs,

DFT are determined not to allow a buffet on IETs - there fixed that little quote for you!

It’s not as if this is the first time it’s been mentioned (and debunked by Clarence Yard) on the forum, let alone this thread.
 

Busaholic

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And as regards the Morrisons supermarket blocking extension of Penzance depot, I consider it possible that Morrisons ARE holding on to the site in the hope of a generous offer. Supermarkets are hard nosed businesses but it seems reasonable to consider not just trading profits but also asset values.
A business might retain a loss making outlet if they judged this to be worthwhile to protect the value of the site.
Even more so as the rumours swirl locally that Tesco will close soon. The fish and deli counters have closed in recent weeks and there was a desultory attempt at moving a few things around to fill the space, but as of this afternoon those have disappeared too. You don't have to lip read to hear staff openly discussing the place possibly closing, and many have accepted redundancy already. So Morrisons might reckon (correctly, I feel) that a good proportion of Tesco's customers would transfer, initially at least. So another reason to hang on.
 

Bletchleyite

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Even more so as the rumours swirl locally that Tesco will close soon. The fish and deli counters have closed in recent weeks and there was a desultory attempt at moving a few things around to fill the space, but as of this afternoon those have disappeared too. You don't have to lip read to hear staff openly discussing the place possibly closing, and many have accepted redundancy already. So Morrisons might reckon (correctly, I feel) that a good proportion of Tesco's customers would transfer, initially at least. So another reason to hang on.

Tesco have closed fish, deli and hot food counters throughout their estate, including in stores (e.g. Bletchley) which are very profitable and highly unlikely to close. It's just part of a move to cut costs to be able to compete with Aldi etc which also do not have those counters.

So I wouldn't count on that. If it did happen the Morrisons might well do better, though.
 

tel

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I haven't read the whole of this discussion but I've just signed the petition for this reason, I went to the South Devon gala on Sunday and had the Sat around Cornwall chasing units, had a few rides on the 800/802s and catering was complete rubbish and the case of the 1600 from Exeter to Padd non existent. On some of the units there was a trolley service but with no hot water and limited cold drinks and the only food was crisps/chocolate etc. A complete abysmal service for long journeys to and from the west country.

Tel
 

mmh

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Tesco have closed fish, deli and hot food counters throughout their estate, including in stores (e.g. Bletchley) which are very profitable and highly unlikely to close. It's just part of a move to cut costs to be able to compete with Aldi etc which also do not have those counters

"Across their estate?", the 3 Tesco branches I use most often still have fish and deli counters. Llandudno Junction, Purley and Beckenham. Perhaps they've closed them where they were unprofitable.
 

Bletchleyite

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"Across their estate?", the 3 Tesco branches I use most often still have fish and deli counters. Llandudno Junction, Purley and Beckenham. Perhaps they've closed them where they were unprofitable.

I believe it's progressive closure, though of course the least profitable ones will go first.
 

SwindonBert

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Today I travelled from Plymouth to Swindon in first class on a direct service (circa 3 hours) & only saw the trolley once, just before Newton Abbot. Others in 1st who got on after were asking the train manager about this (who, did start handing out bottles of water). It was caused by too many people on board & the trolley could not move, whoever asked for a trolley at seat service didn't think about what happens on busy services & what a limited service can be offered
 

CptCharlee

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Found this interesting tweet from Luke Pollard MP for Plymouth Devonport...
https://twitter.com/LukePollard/status/1152988345959636992?s=19

I’m a fan of the new trains but I do want to see a buffet car brought back. I’ve told GWR that although they have a pickle amending stuff due to the contract with Hitachi. But it is something on my radar :)

It seems some MPs are fighting to install buffets. But it that infamous contract with Hitachi that makes things difficult.
 

Master29

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Are you sure about that? Sounds like a causality trap...

But I’ll clarify my answer - the kitchens have identical sets of equipment; any of the 4 types can offer Pullman dining or other full cooked meals. The size of the kitchen area has little to no bearing on service provision.
So why the extra 3 seats on 5 car sets?
 

JN114

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whoever asked for a trolley at seat service didn't think about what happens on busy services & what a limited service can be offered

Or they did and weighed it against their other objectives and decided it wasn’t a factor?
 

Master29

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To improve capacity First Class capacity on an otherwise shorter unit, for the routes that run 5 car?
So why not do the same on a 9 car unit that only has 71 first class seats on GWR and also thus potentially giving standard seating in LNER 9 car sets a few more seats given they`re already too small capacity wise.
 

pt_mad

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DfT chose a train purposely without a buffet so why would they be interested in a petition?
Presumably parliament would have to debate the issue if it reached 100,000 signatures. Not that it's likely to though without massive publicity.
 

Deafdoggie

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"Across their estate?", the 3 Tesco branches I use most often still have fish and deli counters. Llandudno Junction, Purley and Beckenham. Perhaps they've closed them where they were unprofitable.

Some counters closed permanently. Some only open 5 days a week so only one set of staff needed. You may find visiting a different day, or in an evening means that are shut.
 

Ianno87

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Or they did and weighed it against their other objectives and decided it wasn’t a factor?

Or equally figured that if the crowding on a very small number of services is so bad that the trolley couldn't get through, it'd be bad enough that people couldn't/wouldn't want to walk through to the buffet car either....
 
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