EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Howardh]

I don't understand why you don't believe me.

Well we've found out that BA are the only way to get into the Republic without photo ID as long as you ain't putting something in the hold. Frankly I'm amazed at that - but more amazed that you have to show photo ID on anything (except BA) to get into NI. However those are company rules rather than laws it seems.
How are you going to stop unwanted EU criminals crossing the Irish border into the UK?

 

[mmh]

I will be trying to travel in to an EU country from a none EU one, this is something I have done before.

If it's something you've done before, what are you worried about?

 

[Howardh]

**Still think flying from the UK direct to Gibraltar should be domestic - save for having to go through customs. Although the complication is that Gibraltarians don't have an automatic right of abode/work in the UK so their passport/work status would need to be checked on arrival? If so it means we don't have freedom of movement (EU style) between our overseas territories and ourselves.

But for a small place like Gib it hardly matters??

 

[HSTEd]

Really the easiest option would be just to give all the remaining overseas territories right of abode.

Now Hong Kong is gone the population of the remaining territories is negligible.

 

[takno]

If it's something you've done before, what are you worried about?

If it took three hours the last time he did it I can see why he might be worried. It was only 40 minutes the last 4 times I did it, but that's certainly not nothing, particularly since 3 of them were in one day.

As to the Irish border, I think it's very likely that the common travel area will hold, at least for a few months. Honestly difficult to assume any further than that though when the government (political side) is clearly operating in a fantasy world because they just don't have any conception of how badly they might be about to mess up. The Irish border will be unique with the EU's external borders, and there's no long term guarantees that they can or will continue to put up with it, or frankly that the lunatics on our side won't throw up a border themselves the minute they don't need the DUP

 

[Struner]

The common travel area has been there since 1923? So well outside the score of this thread?

 

[Howardh]

If it took three hours the last time he did it I can see why he might be worried. It was only 40 minutes the last 4 times I did it, but that's certainly not nothing, particularly since 3 of them were in one day.

As to the Irish border, I think it's very likely that the common travel area will hold, at least for a few months. Honestly difficult to assume any further than that though when the government (political side) is clearly operating in a fantasy world because they just don't have any conception of how badly they might be about to mess up. The Irish border will be unique with the EU's external borders, and there's no long term guarantees that they can or will continue to put up with it, or frankly that the lunatics on our side won't throw up a border themselves the minute they don't need the DUP

Keeping the Common Travel Area will prevent the republic from joining the Schengen Zone as currently EU citizens are checked on arrival (as we currently are if we go to an EU country other than Ireland). For example, if RoI joined Schengen then that would allow UK citizens to travel to Ireland perfectly legally and then cross to the mainland of the EU (practically France/Spain) by ferry with no immigration checks (as there are none between the UK and NI/RoI). Therefore there would be a huge security hole where Brits could walk into the EU without passport, visa or ETIAS.

If RoI wanted to join Schengen at some future point, then there would have to be proper checks as we arrive there, and also a hard border installed between RoI and NI (and there would still be open fields straddlig the border for people to walk across...)

 

[berneyarms]

Well we've found out that BA are the only way to get into the Republic without photo ID as long as you ain't putting something in the hold. Frankly I'm amazed at that - but more amazed that you have to show photo ID on anything (except BA) to get into NI. However those are company rules rather than laws it seems.
How are you going to stop unwanted EU criminals crossing the Irish border into the UK?

I think you will find that Irish immigration authorities at Dublin Airport will require a document with your photograph on it - all passengers arriving into Ireland by air have to go through immigration regardless of where the flight comes from.

Those eligible to avail of the provisions of the CTA (Irish and UK citizens) need to be able to prove their identity and their right to avail of the CTA to an immigration officer.

 

[EM2]

The common travel area has been there since 1923? So well outside the score of this thread?

There has not previously been a time when one state is in the EU and one is not. It isn't yet known how that will be managed. mmh believes that everything will be fine with absolutely no difference to how it is now. Others are not so sure.

 

[berneyarms]

There has not previously been a time when one state is in the EU and one is not. It isn't yet known how that will be managed. mmh believes that everything will be fine with absolutely no difference to how it is now. Others are not so sure.

Both governments remain committed to retaining the CTA, and I suspect that will remain the case with regards to the movement of people, albeit with the possibility of more spot immigration checks than happens currently for non-Irish and non-UK citizens.

The problems will be with regard to goods and services, which is an absolute minefield.

 

[Bantamzen]

Is it possible to stroll up to a ticket desk, buy an air ticket with cash, be given a ticket and simply proceed through security onto the plane?

ADDS I've just had a look at Ryanair and it states that a photo driving licence isn't sufficient between UK/RoI. Again that's their rules.

You can travel on wholly domestic flights without a passport on some airlines, however you will need ID to check in for security purposes. And most airline companies will not accept cash these days regardless of destination. However travel to the ROI as mentioned above requires you to pass through immigration, and potentially prove your right to entry, which basically is going to be your passport.

 

[edwin_m]

That doesn't seem to match with recent announcements by JLR, BMW and others.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49170387

Car industry investment plummets in UK

The SMMT says investment fell to just £90m in the first six months of the year from £347m last year.
...
Not all investors are holding back however. In early July, for example, Jaguar Land Rover announced plans to build the first of a new range of electric and hybrid models at its factory in Castle Bromwich.
...
But while Mr Hawes enthusiastically welcomes JLR's plan, he insists the company is an "outlier", and that the broader picture is very different, where investment is effectively stalled.

 

[Howardh]

I think you will find that Irish immigration authorities at Dublin Airport will require a document with your photograph on it - all passengers arriving into Ireland by air have to go through immigration regardless of where the flight comes from.

Those eligible to avail of the provisions of the CTA (Irish and UK citizens) need to be able to prove their identity and their right to avail of the CTA to an immigration officer.

So BA will let them on to a plane without photo ID in the knowledge that they can't enter RoI without; wouldn't BA be breaking the law then? One assunes the bA rules only apply therefore between GB and NI and not RoI.

 

[433N]

Boris Johnson has said that he wants to negotiate a new deal with the EU and the EU have said they're willing and ready to talk.

Yet Boris Johnson doesn't seem to know where Brussels is. In the past week, he went north to Scotland and then went west to Wales and now, unbelievably, having not found Brussels in Scotland or Wales, he has gone north west to Northern Ireland.

Surely, it must strike him soon that Brussels must be somewhere east.

I'm not sending my kids to Eton or Oxford - they don't seem to be able to teach Geography.

 

[Howardh]

Boris Johnson has said that he wants to negotiate a new deal with the EU and the EU have said they're willing and ready to talk.

Yet Boris Johnson doesn't seem to know where Brussels is. In the past week, he went north to Scotland and then went west to Wales and now, unbelievably, having not found Brussels in Scotland or Wales, he has gone north west to Northern Ireland.

Surely, it must strike him soon that Brussels must be somewhere east.

I'm not sending my kids to Eton or Oxford - they don't seem to be able to teach Geography.

Dominic Raabid appears to think Scotland is a region of England, in a tweet that very quickly got deleted. Brexit is in such safe hands......

Actually there's more than a point there. I really believe they are generally uneducated and have no idea how close or important the EU is to this country. Raab didn't have a clue about Dover/Calais, and when they go overseas it's usually direct using the RAF or private flights, so they never get to see "Europe". David Davis....'nuff said.

Brexit wouldn't be so bad if it were in the hands of people who knew what they were doing. Maybe it should have been handed over to a committee of businessmen, travel agents and geography teachers, and parliament kept well away.

Parliament...Chris Grayling....I rest my case m'lud.

 

[furnessvale]

Out of curiosity can you give some specific examples of this, prior to the UK voting to leave?

Ports Directive

 

[furnessvale]

Someone will issue a bomb threat and the line will be closed

As opposed to the real bombs currently being used in NI.

 

[Bantamzen]

Boris Johnson has said that he wants to negotiate a new deal with the EU and the EU have said they're willing and ready to talk.

Yet Boris Johnson doesn't seem to know where Brussels is. In the past week, he went north to Scotland and then went west to Wales and now, unbelievably, having not found Brussels in Scotland or Wales, he has gone north west to Northern Ireland.

Surely, it must strike him soon that Brussels must be somewhere east.

I'm not sending my kids to Eton or Oxford - they don't seem to be able to teach Geography.

This was something I was curious about, given that every day that ticks by is one closer to his self-imposed deadline. But then I remembered it is BoJo we are talking about here, he probably imagines that a deal will just pop into his Downing Street inbox while he's jollying around the UK, being a Brexiteer and all. After all, trade deals are easy, right?

 

[berneyarms]

So BA will let them on to a plane without photo ID in the knowledge that they can't enter RoI without; wouldn't BA be breaking the law then? One assunes the bA rules only apply therefore between GB and NI and not RoI.

The BA website makes it clear that you do require photographic ID when flying to Ireland if you are an Irish or UK citizen, and all other nationalities require a passport.

For domestic UK (which includes Northern Ireland) flights they recommend that you have some form photographic ID but it is not a requirement.

 

[berneyarms]

Ports Directive

You could at least explain the context.

 

[Howardh]

The BA website makes it clear that you do require photographic ID when flying to Ireland if you are an Irish or UK citizen, and all other nationalities require a passport.

For domestic UK (which includes Northern Ireland) flights they recommend that you have some form photographic ID but it is not a requirement.

So this https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...lt-and-aftermath.132044/page-614#post-4131279 is incorrect then? Although to be fair I'm trying to differentiate between flying from GB to the north of Ireland and the Republic where it may be possible to still fly to the north (ie within the UK) without photo ID.

Has anyone on here actually flown to any part of Ireland without a photo of themselves in some form, certainly since 2001?

Again I underline that these would be airline rules rather than immigration rules; of course once you are in the North (or south) you can cross the border totally unchecked on the grounds there is NO border - other than a line on a map!!

 

[berneyarms]

So this https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...lt-and-aftermath.132044/page-614#post-4131279 is incorrect then? Although to be fair I'm trying to differentiate between flying from GB to the north of Ireland and the Republic where it may be possible to still fly to the north (ie within the UK) without photo ID.

Has anyone on here actually flown to any part of Ireland without a photo of themselves in some form, certainly since 2001?

Again I underline that these would be airline rules rather than immigration rules; of course once you are in the North (or south) you can cross the border totally unchecked on the grounds there is NO border - other than a line on a map!!

That post says photo ID is not required for internal flights which means within the UK (i.e. GB & NI), which is correct.

Ireland is not an internal part of the UK last time I checked!

I am Irish and live in Dublin and can confirm that for UK and Irish citizens travelling within the CTA, you are required to have some form of photo ID and prove your nationality to Irish immigration authorities when arriving at any Irish airport.

The only airline exception to this is Ryanair, who require everyone to have a passport.

 

[SteveP29]

The drawback for Brexit is if passports aren't checked on people entering the UK from the Republic, then you have no control as to whether those EU people crossing have a right to be here or not

Doesn't quite sound like taking back control of our borders, does it?
I'm sure that's not what Farage, Johnson et al were thinking, then again, if they did think, they'd realise the whole thing is a ridiculous idea

 

[Doppelganger]

I am Irish and live in Dublin and can confirm that for UK and Irish citizens travelling within the CTA, you are required to have some form of photo ID and prove your nationality to Irish immigration authorities when arriving at any Irish airport.

What sort of photo ID demonstrates nationality apart from a passport?

 

[nlogax]

I'm sure that's not what Farage, Johnson et al were thinking, then again, if they did think, they'd realise the whole thing is a ridiculous idea

Quite. Brexiteer politicians have never struck me as being detail-oriented.

 

[ungreat]

They've ALWAYS known...just played on imbecile nationalism and Brexit

 

[Doppelganger]

All part of the easiest deal in history.

They wonder what technology you need to solve this... I wonder what ID you might need to carry...

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1155957402312663041.html

 

[berneyarms]

What sort of photo ID demonstrates nationality apart from a passport?

They generally ask questions if you don’t have a passport in order for the immigration officer to be reasonably certain that you are entitled to avail of the CTA.

The photo ID proves your identity.

And reasonable numbers of people do get refused entry due to the UK & Ireland having different visa requirements.

 

[berneyarms]

Doesn't quite sound like taking back control of our borders, does it?
I'm sure that's not what Farage, Johnson et al were thinking, then again, if they did think, they'd realise the whole thing is a ridiculous idea

In terms of people, the UK/Ireland land border will remain open and only random spot checks will stop people from entering illegally.

What will stop however, is the ability of non-UK and non-Irish citizens to work and claim benefits in the UK - that is the context that the pro-Brexit people mean.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Thanks to a new EU trade deal with Japan which greatly benefits Germany but throws all the UK satellite plants under a bus as Japan can now export direct from its home country plants tariff free.

Still waiting for you explanation of why this EU treaty is of great benefit to Germany and not the UK?