A mod now are we?
I’m fed up of this conversation becoming a battle, I’m merely reminding people of the subject and the reason it’s here, not to lock people up and throw away the key
A mod now are we?
that each unit has a trolley, supplied by Hitachi. No doubt correct, but totally irrelevant if GWR cant be bothered to staff and stock it.
I know I am not alone in always having sought out the knife and fork or cup symbols on timetables. It’s added value and a unique selling point.A swimming pool will attract additional sales at a hotel as people choose it over alternatives.
How many choose GWR over the alternatives because it has a buffet?
GWR and the Daft don`t give a toss about the W of E.
I can't help thinking this poster makes a really interesting point re not many viable alternatives for journeys beyond Exeter or to Swansea. Or rather, not alternatives which could become the preferred option simply for the reason there's a trolley service rather than a buffet. Simple supply and demand I guess. And more seats means more room for more customers.
I know I am not alone in always having sought out the knife and fork or cup symbols on timetables. It’s added value and a unique selling point.
Brand new trains that are of poor interior quality and non existent catering services on many trains with static trolleys. What huge growth exactly are you telling us about? It`s still the same number of lines since Beeching swung his axe. West country lines the busiest in their entire history you tell us but I thought you were the one telling us all a while back this wasn`t the case and we didn`t need longer trains to Penzance. Pullman is the same as it ever was so a pointless statement. Growth isn`t through the non existent hard work of GWR or the DaFT but because the rail infrastructure is already there and it`s a holiday region of the UK. This growth as you put it has nothing to do with the work of GWR? Granted there is a good frequency increase between Penzance and Plymouth however but who travelling to London wants to change at Plymouth because Cornwall is lumbered with 5 car units.This is a joke, isn't it?
Let's see, a brand new long-distance train fleet; a new timetable on the way later this year with a London-Penzance service at least every two hours all day and two trains per hour between Plymouth and Penzance all day (with three trains in the hours when XC services run) and improved local services in Devon as well; West Country branch lines probably the busiest most of them have been in their entire history, with huge growth in the years since FGW took over from Wessex Trains; Eight of the 10 daily GWR Pullman restaurant services run between Plymouth and Paddington, etc.
Clearly no one gives a toss about the W of E...
Except it`s hardly a market as there`s no competition. It`s like saying Water companies will make a profit this year. As to the rest, we shall see shan`t we.I see, in a Q&A with GWR MD Mark Hopwood on another forum, he states that sales of food and drink have *increased* since IET trolleys replaced HST buffets.
So, I guess when the trolley fails to make it through the length of the train, one explanation is that it’s being stopped en route, very frequently, by people who want to buy stuff: an opportunistic coffee and cake because it’s there, seat-side. The answer to this ‘victim of success’ problem would appear to be selective use of additional trolleys on the busiest trains, where this can be commercially justified.
I note various posts predicting a downturn in custom to Devon and Cornwall, for GWR, as a consequence of the ‘downgraded’ catering offer and the ambience of the IETs. I recall similar doom-laden predictions in 2016 when First Class was reduced from 2.5 to 1.5 coaches on the HSTs. How did that work out?
London to the west country is a fantastic market to be in; hardly anyone notices or cares what type of train they’re travelling on, and my take is that year on year growth will continue, unless we hit a serious recession.
This is a joke, isn't it?
Let's see, a brand new long-distance train fleet; a new timetable on the way later this year with a London-Penzance service at least every two hours all day and two trains per hour between Plymouth and Penzance all day (with three trains in the hours when XC services run) and improved local services in Devon as well; West Country branch lines probably the busiest most of them have been in their entire history, with huge growth in the years since FGW took over from Wessex Trains; Eight of the 10 daily GWR Pullman restaurant services run between Plymouth and Paddington, etc.
Clearly no one gives a toss about the W of E...
DB's provision of at least a bistro on every InterCity service except the awful IC Twindexx is quoted by them as making a hefty direct loss, but they consider it an essential part of the overall package of providing a quality product for long distance services.I actually heard a passenger ask a member of staff whether there was a buffet car on a class 700 recently. There is definitely a customer base who'd like a walk up buffet on any long distance route. As to whether it would make business sense well that's another issue.
I guess there are those who fundamentally believe that there should be a full range catering offering on all intercity services as a service to the public, even if it couldn't turn a profit. And there are probably those who would rather see more seats or plenty of advance fares if it meant it had to be a trolley and others who wouldn't expect anything to operate in the business world unless it could viably make money.
Personally I like the romantic notion of being able to walk to an appealing looking counter and being able to stand there for five minutes chatting to the next person. Nothing at all makes business sense about that but that is from a railway lover's perspective!
DB's provision of at least a bistro on every InterCity service except the awful IC Twindexx is quoted by them as making a hefty direct loss, but they consider it an essential part of the overall package of providing a quality product for long distance services.
That an individual part of a service does not have to make a profit in its own right, as long as overall its provision makes a positive contribution is of course sound business sense. This is what is distinctly lacking in our railways given the transitory and highly specified nature of the franchise system.
So I understand, although I've managed to avoid that situation and. However, that's a day to day management issue, rather than delineate change to the catering offer. DB's competence, or lack of, in actually operating anything is of course a whole topic in its own right.DB’s recent consistency in actually providing the BordBistro (very good when provided) is actually very poor with it often being closed etc.
Brand new trains that are of poor interior quality and non existent catering services on many trains with static trolleys. What huge growth exactly are you telling us about? It`s still the same number of lines since Beeching swung his axe. West country lines the busiest in their entire history you tell us but I thought you were the one telling us all a while back this wasn`t the case and we didn`t need longer trains to Penzance. Pullman is the same as it ever was so a pointless statement. Growth isn`t through the non existent hard work of GWR or the DaFT but because the rail infrastructure is already there and it`s a holiday region of the UK. This growth as you put it has nothing to do with the work of GWR? Granted there is a good frequency increase between Penzance and Plymouth however but who travelling to London wants to change at Plymouth because Cornwall is lumbered with 5 car units.
Brand new trains that are of poor interior quality and non existent catering services on many trains with static trolleys. What huge growth exactly are you telling us about? It`s still the same number of lines since Beeching swung his axe. West country lines the busiest in their entire history you tell us but I thought you were the one telling us all a while back this wasn`t the case and we didn`t need longer trains to Penzance. Pullman is the same as it ever was so a pointless statement.Growth isn`t through the non existent hard work of GWR or the DaFT but because the rail infrastructure is already there and it`s a holiday region of the UK. This growth as you put it has nothing to do with the work of GWR? Granted there is a good frequency increase between Penzance and Plymouth however but who travelling to London wants to change at Plymouth because Cornwall is lumbered with 5 car units.
How about pausing for a moment to try to absorb what other people are saying?
If there is a static trolley, then that is clearly an existent catering service, not a non-existent catering service. And I said nothing about the catering services anyway, because everyone seems to have an entrenched position and this thread is not going to change anything in that respect.
My reference about huge growth was to the branch lines, as the punctuation I used throughout the post to separate the various points is intended to indicate. Just look up passenger figures for the branches in Devon and Cornwall in the early 2000s then compare them with the most recent figures. FGW/GWR staff and managers in the area have put in plenty of hard work since 2006 to develop those branches, with the sterling support of the Community Rail Partnership.
As this reference was about the branch lines, I stand by anything that I have said previously about loadings on IET services to and from London when they are running west of Plymouth. Not all of them justify provision of a 640-seat train at all hours of the day and night all year round, so please stop pretending that the entire population of Cornwall is on trains to and from London seven days a week, year-round, topped off by tourists (who travel in varying quantities throughout the year, with traffic still heavily weighted to the summer months).
Rather a lot of passengers in Cornwall only want to get to other places within Cornwall, or go as far as Plymouth, so I think you will find rather a lot of them will be more than happy to get what will be a more frequent service to make those sorts of journeys.
The Pullman service is not 'the same as it ever was' - the pair of trains worked by a London-based crew is a recent improvement to the service, as opposed to the old two out, two back system worked by Plymouth crews only which applied for many years.
The Pullman service is not 'the same as it ever was' - the pair of trains worked by a London-based crew is a recent improvement to the service, as opposed to the old two out, two back system worked by Plymouth crews only which applied for many years.
Although I have heard anecdotally from crews that takings are down on the West of England Pullmans on services which are formed of 2x5, thus excluding those who want to eat, but are in the wrong section of the train.I’ve heard a rumour that the Pullman loses an awful lot of money each month (and has done for a long time) but GWR like to still run it as it is unique and well liked.
But I’m not sure that an increase in Pullman trains is likely.
I do feel the pairs of 5 cars should be running round all day on the busy bristols and Cardiffs, with the 9 cars used for Pullmans and preferably a buffet.Although I have heard anecdotally from crews that takings are down on the West of England Pullmans on services which are formed of 2x5, thus excluding those who want to eat, but are in the wrong section of the train.
As the nine car sets set already have kitchens on board it wouldn't be too hard to implement, however do the five car sets also have kitchens, or an area for food to be prepared/warmed up?
All IETs come equipped with a kitchen that is currently used for the Pullman only.
What an utter waste of that asset. The kitchen could be used on all services to prepare hot buffet items for the whole train.
My idea would involve selecting what you want from an App, then selecting your seat and row number, paying for your items on the App, then 5-10 minutes later your items arrive at your seat.
I agree, what an excellent idea. I hope someone in the know won't tell us why it can't be done...
Wouldn't be any use for me, as I don't have a smartphone, or any mobile in fact...and before anyone says, yes, I know I'm in a minority...My idea would involve selecting what you want from an App, then selecting your seat and row number, paying for your items on the App, then 5-10 minutes later your items arrive at your seat.
If you're going down the 'at-seat order' route, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to order from the trolley steward as they pass.Wouldn't be any use for me, as I don't have a smartphone, or any mobile in fact...and before anyone says, yes, I know I'm in a minority...
Wouldn't be any use for me, as I don't have a smartphone, or any mobile in fact...and before anyone says, yes, I know I'm in a minority...