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West Coast Partnership: Awarded to First Trenitalia

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duncanp

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The RMT has condemned the decision as a "political stitch up."

Cue a series of strikes on the West Coast Main Line in the run up to Christmas.
 
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RealTrains07

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Not impressed first have it, they have been begging for the west coast for years!

I wonder if their 2 services an hour between london and liverpool is trying to stop virgin from taking a path for their liverpool services? :?:
 

EE Andy b1

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I imagine that in a post-HS2 world tilt will be a thing of the past on the WCML. On the southern part, all the fastest trains will be on HS2, on the northern part all the principal trains will be non-tilting HS2 sets, surely no justification for maintaining tilt for secondary services. Nobody has UK gauge tilting trains in their catalogues, let alone tilting bi-modes and the numbers involved hardly make coming up with a bespoke design worthwhile.

I think your probably right and tilt is an expensive thing to have. Might get more infrastructure upgrades to run 125 MPH non-tilt where possible.
So enjoy the ride while you can.
 

NoMorePacers

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I would think south of Preston that non-tilting trains could do 125mph for the most part without the curves being taken too dangerously, although I'm not certain for sure.
 

EE Andy b1

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I would think south of Preston that non-tilting trains could do 125mph for the most part without the curves being taken too dangerously, although I'm not certain for sure.

I think if they could of, they would of...

A very bendy railway South of Preston as well as North.

It will need a lot of money again being put into the infrastructure, me thinks, to iron out some of those bends.
 

Western Lord

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I think if they could of, they would of...

A very bendy railway South of Preston as well as North.

It will need a lot of money again being put into the infrastructure, me thinks, to iron out some of those bends.
If they can get worthwhile stretches of non-tilt 125 mph on the MML, I'm sure that they can do the same on the (generally) less bendy WCML.
 

General Zod

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From a consumer point of view how will the change in franchise effect the pricing structure of the fares ? You can currently get some very competitive fares on the WCML between the West Midlands and the North West / Scotland. Are we going to see a hike in ticket prices or are they likely to remain the approximately same ? Improvements will come at a cost and inevitably the passenger will have to foot part of the bill.
 

EE Andy b1

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If they can get worthwhile stretches of non-tilt 125 mph on the MML, I'm sure that they can do the same on the (generally) less bendy WCML.

I think you've got that wrong. If the WCML was (generally) less bendy, do you really think they would have gone for tilting trains?

Anyway it's going to be expensive to try and straighten some of the route out a bit for 125 mph running.
 

RealTrains07

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Would having a tilt feature have to be part of the contract for ordering the new trains?

First takeover in 4 months, hopefully they will announce more information sooner rather than later
 

Class 466

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Not impressed first have it, they have been begging for the west coast for years!

I wonder if their 2 services an hour between london and liverpool is trying to stop virgin from taking a path for their liverpool services? :?:

Hardly. Bids were submitted ages before Virgin announced this.
 

Kite159

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The extra services to Gobowen (as an extension to the daily Wrexham) and a daily service to Walsall seem a bit random.

Probably a member of the senior management team lives in those places and want a direct service.
 

StaffsWCML

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From a consumer point of view how will the change in franchise effect the pricing structure of the fares ? You can currently get some very competitive fares on the WCML between the West Midlands and the North West / Scotland. Are we going to see a hike in ticket prices or are they likely to remain the approximately same ? Improvements will come at a cost and inevitably the passenger will have to foot part of the bill.

First will have a monopoly in the North West to Scotland routes now, so I imagine they can price gorge all they want. Should deliver great results for the passenger. :lol:
 

RealTrains07

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“As part of the radical shake-up, Walsall will receive its first direct intercity services”

LNR already have a direct london service to walsall right?

How would you get intercity trains at walsall considering the paths?
 

Western Lord

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I think you've got that wrong. If the WCML was (generally) less bendy, do you really think they would have gone for tilting trains?

Anyway it's going to be expensive to try and straighten some of the route out a bit for 125 mph running.
Well, they are going to have to do something for non-tilting HS2 trains north of Crewe, and they will, which is why TPE has bought non-tilting 125mph trains for Manchester/Liverpool to Glasgow/Edinburgh services. On the southern section, I imagine there will be a blanket 110 mph in order to maximise capacity.
 

gavin

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So with LNER on the East Coast could we see a return to London, Midland and Scottish Railway on the West Coast
 

centraltrains

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Will these new trains be tilt enabled? Can't find where people are mention of the new trains from (apart from simply replaced on the map)?
 

PR1Berske

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The extra services to Gobowen (as an extension to the daily Wrexham) and a daily service to Walsall seem a bit random.

Probably a member of the senior management team lives in those places and want a direct service.
Cynic:D
 

RealTrains07

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Some things dont add up:

How many voyagers are with virgin at the moment?

13 bio mode and 10 electric trains to replace the voyagers? Is that enough

Especially since the bi modes work the wales services and the 10 electrics work the extra liverpool ones??

Also mentioned free wifi on trains? Virgin have done that already!
 

Along the bay

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Some things dont add up:

How many voyagers are with virgin at the moment?

13 bio mode and 10 electric trains to replace the voyagers? Is that enough

Especially since the bi modes work the wales services and the 10 electrics work the extra liverpool ones??

Also mentioned free wifi on trains? Virgin have done that already!
I think there are 20 voyagers at the moment so an increase of 3 units overall
 

EE Andy b1

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which is why TPE has bought non-tilting 125mph trains for Manchester/Liverpool to Glasgow/Edinburgh services.

No they bought the Class 397 because it was the cheapest (CAF) option available to them.

Iv'e not seen Network Rails plans for upgrading any part of the West Coast mainline yet, to non-EPS 125 mph running, and if they do it'll be years before we see any benefit at great expense.
 

ashkeba

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So I guess the brand colours are navy blue (black?) and orange?
Brand name "West Coast Rail" ?

Hmm.
Are they calling it "West Coast Rail" in an attempt to hijack the remaining goodwill and fond memories from "East Coast Trains", mess it (like First usually do - Great Western brand was messed so they rebranded to FGW which was messed so rebranded to GWR and now that is being messed by all the IET problems so what brand next once they run on electric reliably?) and reduce the public enthusiasm for nationalisation?
 

Whisky Papa

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I think the commuters on the South Western franchise might disagree. On the plus side many bus drivers will be waking up happy this morning with the increase to staff travel now available.

Do you believe First actually offer this now? In my experience there was no overlap between bus and rail staff travel arrangements other than that Arriva Cymru bus drivers got ATW rail concessions too.
 

EE Andy b1

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“As part of the radical shake-up, Walsall will receive its first direct intercity services”

LNR already have a direct london service to walsall right?

LNR not exactly InterCity!


So with LNER on the East Coast could we see a return to London, Midland and Scottish Railway on the West Coast

It's looking that way, and why not!

I think there are 20 voyagers at the moment so an increase of 3 units overall

Yes 20 Super Voyagers (with tilt) for 13 Bi-modes and 10 electrics units (non-tilt!?). Does not seem enough. As has been said though, some of the Class 221s double up at the moment on Euston - West Midlands - Scottish services, so those would be covered by the new EMUs.

Just seems crazy to have 2 small fleets again, unless they are Class 802s & Class 397s which seems highly likely.

Once again time will tell, but i bet there late into service! :rolleyes: :lol:
 

RLBH

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Especially since the bi modes work the wales services and the 10 electrics work the extra liverpool ones??
To my mind it would make sense for the new EMUs to work the London-Birmingham service without buffets, whilst the Pendolini can be refurbished, retain buffets, and be concentrated on the longer distance services.
 

EastCoastway

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Do you believe First actually offer this now? In my experience there was no overlap between bus and rail staff travel arrangements other than that Arriva Cymru bus drivers got ATW rail concessions too.

Rail to bus there are some concessions like weekly passes available 10x if I remember correctly for rail staff.
 

Western Lord

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No they bought the Class 397 because it was the cheapest (CAF) option available to them.

Iv'e not seen Network Rails plans for upgrading any part of the West Coast mainline yet, to non-EPS 125 mph running, and if they do it'll be years before we see any benefit at great expense.
So, you think that HS2 trains will trundle up to Scotland at 110 mph? If the Class 397 was bought because it was cheap, it would surely have been cheaper if specified for 110 mph.
 

Muenchener

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So the good folks of Motherwell, Walsall and Gobowen must be dancing in the streets. Underw helmed...

Sarcasm mode off. ROFL. Oops switch refuses to disengage.

Can't wait to see how RB responds.
 
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