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West Coast Partnership: Awarded to First Trenitalia

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EE Andy b1

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FirstGroup and Trenitalia (West Coast Rail) plans.

25,000 New seats across the Class 390 Pendolino fleet.

As they are now...
21 x 9 Car 390, 99 First & 370 Standard = 9849 seats
35 x 11 Car 390, 145 First & 444 Standard = 20615 Seats

So a total of 30,464 seats. Not including Drivers! :D

That's a loss of 5464 seats once the 390s are refurbished. Approx 97 seats less per set.

So is that going to be a lot more legroom (standard), which is needed. :smile: More bike space than now? Bigger shop?
 
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pompeyfan

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Do you believe First actually offer this now? In my experience there was no overlap between bus and rail staff travel arrangements other than that Arriva Cymru bus drivers got ATW rail concessions too.

Rail to bus there are some concessions like weekly passes available 10x if I remember correctly for rail staff.

First have offered rail perks to bus employees and V.V since at least 2012 on their franchises.
 

The Ham

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Yet EMR / Rock Rail supposedly placed an order for 5-car trains because they were scared nobody else would want 8/9 car units at a later date.

Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

There's two points, firstly it could be that First are willing to pay the extra to facilitate the use of the longer trains so as to cover the risk of the trains but being used beyond this franchise (remembering that is for a longer time, so the extra cost would be lower).

Secondly, if they are longer units they could more easily cover for other units, allowing you to have a better fleet utilisation of the 390's as the spare could be the bimodal/new EMU's.
 

Whisky Papa

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Rail to bus there are some concessions like weekly passes available 10x if I remember correctly for rail staff.

Within First specifically? Even that's more generous than in my experience: as a member of rail staff I got nothing on Arriva buses, and as First bus staff I got the offer of a £10 return every year on First Great Western - not entirely convenient from Yorkshire!
 

Chuggington21

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I wonder if First will be made to give up some of the other franchise.
They have transpennine and they will have the new First east coast. So that's a big monopoly
 

RealTrains07

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I wonder if First will be made to give up some of the other franchise.
They have transpennine and they will have the new First east coast. So that's a big monopoly
Their east coast franchise wont have as regular services though considering its open access
 

Darandio

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I wonder if First will be made to give up some of the other franchise.
They have transpennine and they will have the new First east coast. So that's a big monopoly

Until very recently Stagecoach had a hand in the WCML, ECML and MML franchises, that is a far bigger monopoly and nobody (apart from on here) gave a hoot. Besides, the new First ECML venture is only a small open access operation.
 

Ianno87

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Their east coast franchise wont have as regular services though considering its open access

You'd argue First East Coast is chasing the London-Edinburgh market, with WCP chasing London-Glasgow really.

Whether you count the much slower London-Birmingham-Edinburgh WCP service as 'competing' for London-Edinburgh is debatable.
 

hexagon789

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First class is already too busy in the evening peaks, especially on the nine cars. I can only pray that worst group don’t bring 2x2 seating with them ala South Western Railway...

Surely not with it being a proper InterCity service?

The shop going seems more likely, though I could see the 11-cars perhaps getting a First converted to a Standard as the 9-cars had.
 

StaffsWCML

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Until very recently Stagecoach had a hand in the WCML, ECML and MML franchises, that is a far bigger monopoly and nobody (apart from on here) gave a hoot. Besides, the new First ECML venture is only a small open access operation.

I think its more the case on the WCML if you go from the North West you can only use First from now on. First will being First almost certainly use that to drive up prices. Its very bad news for Management staff at Virgin as First already have their team of 'top. dogs' The real issue is if they are useless, like they are on most their current routes.
 

TheBigD

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FirstGroup and Trenitalia (West Coast Rail) plans.

25,000 New seats across the Class 390 Pendolino fleet.

As they are now...
21 x 9 Car 390, 99 First & 370 Standard = 9849 seats
35 x 11 Car 390, 145 First & 444 Standard = 20615 Seats

So a total of 30,464 seats. Not including Drivers! :D

That's a loss of 5464 seats once the 390s are refurbished. Approx 97 seats less per set.

So is that going to be a lot more legroom (standard), which is needed. :smile: More bike space than now? Bigger shop?

Pure speculation on my part...

Current standard seating capacity is 23310 from your figures above. Add removing the shop and adding an extra 30sigh seats per set gives you the 25000 figure.
 

pompeyfan

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Thanks for that, you posted just as I was writing the post above. Much improved since my days with First, then.

48 x £6pp day rovers for employee or spouse and can carry 3 other people (at £6pp again), or £10 for a GWR and SWR day rover. (Hull and TPE maybe slightly more, can’t remember exactly)

A large amount of £6 weekly scratch card bus tickets.

All of the above are available to all first group employees.
 

EastCoastway

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48 x £6pp day rovers for employee or spouse and can carry 3 other people (at £6pp again), or £10 for a GWR and SWR day rover. (Hull and TPE maybe slightly more, can’t remember exactly)

A large amount of £6 weekly scratch card bus tickets.

All of the above are available to all first group employees.
And then there's the five boxes if you work for a first group toc that you can use on any first toc.
 

RealTrains07

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Until very recently Stagecoach had a hand in the WCML, ECML and MML franchises, that is a far bigger monopoly and nobody (apart from on here) gave a hoot. Besides, the new First ECML venture is only a small open access operation.
Could argue that since virgin unlike EMT wasnt a stagecoach brand so its less obvious as it ran under a different name. Stagecoach didnt have a third company up north so it wasnt a big issue back then and Virgin East cost didnt last long

unlike First new west coast monopoly which could last years to come
 

Darandio

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Could argue that since virgin unlike EMT wasnt a stagecoach brand so its less obvious as it ran under a different name. Stagecoach didnt have a third company up north so it wasnt a big issue

You can argue that, I say it makes no difference. Starting to claim there is a monopoly becomes far more important when you consider where the revenue is going, not what the brand is on the train. Therefore Stagecoach having a stake in three franchises operating north out of London was a far greater concern than this.
 

RealTrains07

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You can argue that, I say it makes no difference. Starting to claim there is a monopoly becomes far more important when you consider where the revenue is going, not what the brand is on the train. Therefore Stagecoach having a stake in three franchises operating north out of London was a far greater concern than this.
EMT never runs even close to scotland so its different situation
 

Darandio

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EMT never runs even close to scotland so its different situation

It's not different at all. The West Coast and East Coast franchises were both joint ventures with Stagecoach. I'll repeat again, Stagecoach were involved with three competing franchises at the same time.

If there was a worry about monopolies, it was then.
 

RealTrains07

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Yes but the DfT seems to be planning LMS this time and owns the trademarks to the name. It is also very appropriate for the franchise
I dont disagree, Wonder how they will word it though cause its not like they can say london midland scottish railway in the announcements is it or london midland
 
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