• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Someone impersonated me and now I have to go to court.

Status
Not open for further replies.

BC

Guest
Joined
4 Feb 2019
Messages
104
From the sounds of it OP was home alone revising and has no evidence of this. No purchases, no google tracking and no witnesses.

Revision notes - even a dump of browsing history if indeed it was being used - thats all evidence that can be adduced and can be helpful.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

RunawayTrain

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2019
Messages
65
If the official who apprehended the person in 1st Class wore a bodycam it would prove it wasn't the OP.
 

hkstudent

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
1,357
Location
SE London
For some basic facts, apart from full name and address, what personal information would be required to take when PF is to be issued? Date of Birth?
 

hkstudent

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
1,357
Location
SE London
Also, it maybe a good idea to alert London Travelwatch to get to court on the day. They may make a very nice media coverage over GTR for their failing to recognise a real identity.
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
10,674
Location
Redcar
Also, it maybe a good idea to alert London Travelwatch to get to court on the day. They may make a very nice media coverage over GTR for their failing to recognise a real identity.

I can only assume this is tongue in cheek.
 

RunawayTrain

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2019
Messages
65
I seem to remember a certain ferry company referring to hot food deliveries in their website policies. That is not proof that they delivered any hot food (or actually ran any ferries).

Their clear statement that body cams are used is surely to be taken at face value - unless you happen to know they definitely do not and their website is mistaken? In which case, fair enough.
 
Last edited:

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
First off, Alexandra Palace is a red herring: it just happened to be where the train had stopped, or was nearest to, when the person was caught in First Class without relevant ticket, so never having been to A.P. station is irrelevant.

Secondly, the o.p. doesn't say whether they believe someone may have got hold of their identity in any way, presumably something with the o.p.'s address on it as well. If not, who do they know who knew both their name and address well enough to recite it to a Revenue Inspector, albeit the name may have been slightly corrupted or the R.I. may have noted what was told them incorrectly (unlikely, I'd have thought.)

If I were the o.p. and knew I was innocent I'd certainly demand the prosecution produce the evidence (CCTV, bodycam, and identification documents seen at the time) and, presuming they couldn't given that scenario, ask the magistrate to dismiss the charges. On the other hand, from what can be seen of the redacted letter, it seems some identification was sought and got but the person ('she') declined to answer further questions. Umm, I'm trying to put myself in the magistrate's position, and I'm ex-Probation Service, not that I was ever involved in any fare evasion cases.

Good luck to the o.p. in any case.
 

MotCO

Established Member
Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
4,085
On the other hand, from what can be seen of the redacted letter, it seems some identification was sought and got but the person ('she') declined to answer further questions.

Do RPIs seek corraboration of identity at the time of the offence? (I can't see where it says some identification was sought.) (To the OP) If so, I would be concerned if they produced some id which could suggest that someone else has cloned your identity. Have you had any strange charges on your bank statements etc. I just wonder if you can provide some evidence that your identity has been cloned, then it may cast some doubt on the prosecution's case.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
Do RPIs seek corraboration of identity at the time of the offence? (I can't see where it says some identification was sought.) (To the OP) If so, I would be concerned if they produced some id which could suggest that someone else has cloned your identity. Have you had any strange charges on your bank statements etc. I just wonder if you can provide some evidence that your identity has been cloned, then it may cast some doubt on the prosecution's case.
I agree that it doesn't say that identification was sought, nor that any was given, but I'm trying to be logical and assume that at some stage the name and address of the o.p. was either given verbally or some sort of document was produced with it on, unless the TOC are just going through mailing lists, or whatever, and sending random summonses! They have to have had a reason for thinking the o.p. was the person allegedly making the journey in First Class when they shouldn't have been. I'm being dispassionate: I can see potential holes in both of what I take the prosecution and defence cases might be.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
12,980
Who is talking about proof? Their clear statement that body cams are used is surely to be taken at face value - unless you happen to know they definitely do not and their website is mistaken? In which case, fair enough.

Just because they say they use body cameras doesn't mean that every member of staff has been equipped with them
It doesn't mean that they were in use on the day in question.
Or turned on
In any case body cameras don't usually record continuously - they normally only record if the operator switches the camera into the record mode.
The footage is only normally kept for a limited amount of time (usually 31 days)
 

RunawayTrain

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2019
Messages
65
Just because they say they use body cameras doesn't mean that every member of staff has been equipped with them
It doesn't mean that they were in use on the day in question.
Or turned on
In any case body cameras don't usually record continuously - they normally only record if the operator switches the camera into the record mode.
The footage is only normally kept for a limited amount of time (usually 31 days)

I agree with everything except your last sentence - indeed a body cam may not have been used, I only included the suggestion as another avenue that may help the OP in establishing that it wasn't her, as there is a chance one may have been used (or CCTV from the train) and a recording or still image kept. Regarding the length of time a recording is kept, Thameslink's privacy policy makes exceptions to their 20 and 30 day norm for use in legal action.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
12,980
Thameslink's privacy policy makes exceptions to their 20 and 30 day norm for use in legal action.

That doesn't mean that they will keep it for longer, just that they can. TBH they're only likely to keep the footage for cases of abuse, assault etc against their staff, I doubt they'd keep it for a ticketing issue.
 

nuts & bolts

Member
Joined
24 Jan 2015
Messages
244
Location
B & H
For some basic facts, apart from full name and address, what personal information would be required to take when PF is to be issued? Date of Birth?

Certainly, Dob is requested along with any proof of name & address together with a phone call to an agency to confirm said details.

So in essence with the information (the prosecuting TOC) have further collated - must be strong?

For the OP you have nothing to worry about as you state your identity has allegedly been used fraudulently!
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
14,877
For the OP you have nothing to worry about as you state your identity has allegedly been used fraudulently!
That's a rather bold statement without knowing what evidence the train operator has available to present to the court.
 

hkstudent

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
1,357
Location
SE London
Apart from the pre-court preparations. It may be good to call in London Travelwatch to help (at least to be witnessing in court)
 

nuts & bolts

Member
Joined
24 Jan 2015
Messages
244
Location
B & H
That's a rather bold statement without knowing what evidence the train operator has available to present to the court.

As others posters have pointed out, it' s for the TOC to prove guilt but surely not on flimsy evidence?
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
14,877
As others posters have pointed out, it' s for the TOC to prove guilt but surely not on flimsy evidence?
How do you know the evidence is flimsy? The TOC have, presumably, a verified name and address and a brief description. If these match the OP they are not going to be completely discounted by the OP simply saying "Wasn't me" with nothing to back that up.
 

Fawkes Cat

Established Member
Joined
8 May 2017
Messages
2,943
How do you know the evidence is flimsy? The TOC have, presumably, a verified name and address and a brief description. If these match the OP they are not going to be completely discounted by the OP simply saying "Wasn't me" with nothing to back that up.
I am led to understand (from people who work in an area of the civil law, which of course has a different and lower standard of proof) that verbal evidence counts for quite a lot: if someone is prepared to attend court, swear that they will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and tell their story, that counts for quite a lot: I don't know, but I would expect, that judges (and magistrates) are pretty good at recognising when someone is telling the truth.

But we're not here to disbelieve the OP. We've not seen anything to suggest that she's not telling the truth to us. If she is telling us less than the truth, then our advice won't be much help to her in that we've explained how to tell the truth: if she's doing otherwise, she will find that her story falls to pieces if (for example) the railway's witnesses are able to identify her.
 

nuts & bolts

Member
Joined
24 Jan 2015
Messages
244
Location
B & H
I'm not choosing to disbelieve anyone, but dismissing the idea that the TOC have evidence doesn't help anymore than the statement below.

If the OP is ‘innocent’ then case dismissed.

But we cannot discount completely (no disrespect to the OP) if we don’t know the whole facts - hence my open ended statement!
 

tsr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
7,400
Location
Between the parallel lines
But they don't. I believe they will, and have been planning to for some time, but they don't today.

GTR Rail Enforcement Officers definitely use bodycams (and have done for a couple of years now), and one of them may well have been involved in this case, for all we know.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
14,877
GTR Rail Enforcement Officers definitely use bodycams (and have done for a couple of years now), and one of them may well have been involved in this case, for all we know.
Rail Enforcement Officers don’t usually (if ever) get involved in revenue protection on GTR services north of London.
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
9,267
If they won't respond to phone calls, is there a physical address that you can visit? If it was me, I would be round there 24/7 until I got to speak to the right people and got the case dropped.
 

nuts & bolts

Member
Joined
24 Jan 2015
Messages
244
Location
B & H
Rail Enforcement Officers don’t usually (if ever) get involved in revenue protection on GTR services north of London.

But don’t GTR have their own ‘Rail community officers’ working along their TOC’s line of route?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top