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Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

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Entertexthere

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Just seen a news report on the BBC that Northern admit that some Pacers will be used in South Yorks next year, later than they originally promised.
How's that going to work? I don't see Northern forking out money to make them PRM compliant, so are they going to file for an exception for a few units or something?
 
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AMD

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The 0941 Wigan Wallgate to Manchester Victoria was short formed with a single 150/1 instead of two 142s, (or a 142 and 150). The 0924 Southport to Leeds was short formed too with 150114.
The 0941 (0915 from Kirkby) is booked a single 142 but ran with 150133 today and the 0924 from Southport is just booked for a single 150.
 

ed1971

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The 0941 (0915 from Kirkby) is booked a single 142 but ran with 150133 today and the 0924 from Southport is just booked for a single 150.

I have travelled a lot on these services since the big timetable change in May last year and usually it has been two units on them. The 0924 Southport to Leeds was often a 142 and a 150 except Saturdays when it was often just a 150.
 

AMD

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I'm just going off the data from the system and the 0915 is showing as strengthened from a capacity of 137 (a 142) to running with a capacity of 198 (a 150/1).
 

507021

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Sorry if I've missed this, but can anyone confirm all seven of 142005, 016, 021/022/025, 046 and 066 as withdrawn please?

Also, have the five 142s planned to transfer to Heaton now moved to the North East?

Thanks.
 

Mogster

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I have been out and about today to Yorkshire. The withdrawals seem to have had a big knock on affect with few 142s observed today along the Atherton line The 0941 Wigan Wallgate to Manchester Victoria was short formed with a single 150/1 instead of two 142s, (or a 142 and 150). The 0924 Southport to Leeds was short formed too with 150114. The DMS carriage seemed to have vibrating engine mountings and was slow at taking up drive.

142026 was parked up at Huddersfield alongside 195111.

More short forming from Southport this morning. 06:17 to Alderley Edge 1x 156 provided, at least a bit more space than last nights single 142...

I’m not sure if this situation is directly related to the 142 withdrawals but if so it’s ridiculous...
 

northernchris

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More short forming from Southport this morning. 06:17 to Alderley Edge 1x 156 provided, at least a bit more space than last nights single 142...

I’m not sure if this situation is directly related to the 142 withdrawals but if so it’s ridiculous...

Agreed. Yesterday's 0706 Leeds - Huddersfield was cancelled due to more trains than usual than needing repairs. Seems a bit crazy when there's 142s parked up doing nothing
 

Rikki Lamb

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142046 was on the 0803 departure from Wakefield Westgate this morning on the Knottingley - Leeds service
 

PHILIPE

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Agreed. Yesterday's 0706 Leeds - Huddersfield was cancelled due to more trains than usual than needing repairs. Seems a bit crazy when there's 142s parked up doing nothing

It does seem crazy but the number of units allocated to a TOC is to agree with the position on paper and does not allocate for contingencies.
 

Kingspanner

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Agreed. Yesterday's 0706 Leeds - Huddersfield was cancelled due to more trains than usual than needing repairs. Seems a bit crazy when there's 142s parked up doing nothing
Of course those parked up Pacers might need repairs, exams etc and therefore be no more available than the other trains under maintenance. Also, they are deteriorating even while standing still. Every day parked up imakes them harder to reinstate.
 

Chris217

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Without actually knowing why the said Pacers are not being used whilst there are short forms and cancellations means just more inconvenience.
Stating a shortage of stock due to high maintenance issues means any such Pacers shouldn't have been sidelined whilst issues continued. That's common sense surely.

What's better?
A full service with Pacers included or
Short forms and cancellations.

The advertisement of Pacer withdrawals as always is a PR stunt which has gone wrong again!
 

ed1971

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Without actually knowing why the said Pacers are not being used whilst there are short forms and cancellations means just more inconvenience.
Stating a shortage of stock due to high maintenance issues means any such Pacers shouldn't have been sidelined whilst issues continued. That's common sense surely.

What's better?
A full service with Pacers included or
Short forms and cancellations.

The advertisement of Pacer withdrawals as always is a PR stunt which has gone wrong again!

Although BR was by no means perfect, it was easy for them to move stock around different areas to cover shortages without all the red tape. For example, when Pacer gearbox failure rates reached epidemic proportions in the late 1980s, Class 31s and old coaching stock was moved around to cover for them. In 1988 it was the first time that the Southport line had seen locomotive haulage since the end of steam. Not perfect maybe, but there was plenty capacity.
 

Chris217

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One of the disadvantages of
a multi privatised railway.
Too much red tape!

Nice to hear of 046s stay of execution.
Anyone know if all the other ones have been permanently stopped.
 

61653 HTAFC

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One of the disadvantages of
a multi privatised railway.
Too much red tape!

Nice to hear of 046s stay of execution.
Anyone know if all the other ones have been permanently stopped.
It wouldn't surprise me to see the stopped units being robbed of parts to keep the others going.
 

Greybeard33

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Without actually knowing why the said Pacers are not being used whilst there are short forms and cancellations means just more inconvenience.
Stating a shortage of stock due to high maintenance issues means any such Pacers shouldn't have been sidelined whilst issues continued. That's common sense surely.

What's better?
A full service with Pacers included or
Short forms and cancellations.

The advertisement of Pacer withdrawals as always is a PR stunt which has gone wrong again!
When Northern withdraws a Pacer, it will no longer be paying leasing charges for the unit. It will also save on maintenance and fuel costs. Those savings are likely greater than any penalties for short formed services.

Northern is reportedly in financial difficulty. What incentive does it have to incur extra costs by keeping Pacers on its books, over and above the minimum fleet size specified in the franchise agreement?

Blame the DfT, if you do not think the fleet size is sufficient to cover contingencies such as unscheduled maintenance.
 

Jamesrob637

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When Northern withdraws a Pacer, it will no longer be paying leasing charges for the unit. It will also save on maintenance and fuel costs. Those savings are likely greater than any penalties for short formed services.

Northern is reportedly in financial difficulty. What incentive does it have to incur extra costs by keeping Pacers on its books, over and above the minimum fleet size specified in the franchise agreement?

Blame the DfT, if you do not think the fleet size is sufficient to cover contingencies such as unscheduled maintenance.

But what are the penalties for cancellations because the Pacers "could" have still worked that service? Unfortunately not all Northern diesel diagrams are scheduled 4-car (although to be fair there are far far more 4-car diagrams than 5-10 years ago)
 

Greybeard33

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2-car services are seldom cancelled due to stock shortages. The penalties for cancellations are greater than for short forming services booked as 4-car.
 

LMS 4F

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The Leeds-Wakefield via Barnsley service has long been a Pacer fest and casual observations yesterday and today have been more of the same. I think this service must be a candidate for the last Service to see them as a lot of it is within South Yorkshire, as per my previous post.
The much shorter Leeds-Knottingley service has frequently of late had a Pacer replaced by either a 150/1 or 153s.
 

61653 HTAFC

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The Leeds-Wakefield via Barnsley service has long been a Pacer fest and casual observations yesterday and today have been more of the same. I think this service must be a candidate for the last Service to see them as a lot of it is within South Yorkshire, as per my previous post.
The much shorter Leeds-Knottingley service has frequently of late had a Pacer replaced by either a 150/1 or 153s.
Leeds to Knottingley services run out via Castleford and back via Featherstone and Wakefield (or vice-versa), so it's quite a long run. Not many people will do Leeds to Leeds on one (apart from crews and bashers) admittedly, but neither will many use the stopper via Castleford right through from Sheffield to Leeds.
 

superkev

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The Leeds-Wakefield via Barnsley service has long been a Pacer fest and casual observations yesterday and today have been more of the same. I think this service must be a candidate for the last Service to see them as a lot of it is within South Yorkshire, as per my previous post.
The much shorter Leeds-Knottingley service has frequently of late had a Pacer replaced by either a 150/1 or 153s.
I dont think Neville hill has withdrawn any pacers so services around leeds wont change for a while.
K
 

LMS 4F

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Leeds-Knottingley by either route is all within West Yorkshire and this could well be a factor in deciding which unit works which service. In addition I presume only Leeds crews work these routes.
 

Paul_10

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Any news when the next lot of pacers will be withdrawn and if so, how many? Interesting too see 142046 is back in service so maybe it wasn't down for withdrawal?
 
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