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West Coast Partnership: Awarded to First Trenitalia

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RealTrains07

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The wi-fi you mean? At least one page on the Virgin website still states it's paid for in second class, maybe First read that? Although saying there will be faster and more reliable wi-fi isn't exactly taking credit anyway.

Virgin would take credit for the air you breathe if they could, and their fanboys would believe them!
True

Cant see wifi getting faster though. trains companies promise and fail on that factor all the time
 
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Darandio

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So either First or Trentitalia will be running services from 5 London Termi, does anyone else think they might be dominating the market
Fenchurch St/Liverpool St (occasionally)
Kings Cross
Euston
Paddington
Waterloo

Did you post something similar when Stagecoach were running out of Kings Cross, Euston, St Pancras and Waterloo? Far more dominant than your list.
 

NoMorePacers

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Agreed. Its funny how people can complain about stagecoach and virgin dominating and making monopoly out of the market up north while first do it in london and the south right now and soon will have the north aswell

Its great we have one UK train operator left but it isnt a good one thats for sure
It's got to the point where the majority of franchises in the country are run by First/Trenitalia and Abellio. Out of 17 franchises (excluding Caledonian Sleeper, Open Access, and TfL-awarded train operators, since they aren't awarded by the DfT directly), 9 of them are run by those companies.
 

RealTrains07

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Did you post something similar when Stagecoach were running out of Kings Cross, Euston, St Pancras and Waterloo? Far more dominant than your list.
‘Were’ being key word. that list hasn’t been exactly relevant since 2017
 

Darandio

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Were being key word. that list hasn’t been exactly relevant since 2017

But it should have been completely relevant at the time, shouldn't it? It's just that I don't recall anyone moaning about it, but then First weren't involved.
 

Metal_gee_man

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Did you post something similar when Stagecoach were running out of Kings Cross, Euston, St Pancras and Waterloo? Far more dominant than your list.
Funnily I didn't, but in a stagecoach vs first argument stagecoach might come out smelling of roses
 

Andyh82

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It's got to the point where the majority of franchises in the country are run by First/Trenitalia and Abellio. Out of 17 franchises (excluding Caledonian Sleeper, Open Access, and TfL-awarded train operators, since they aren't awarded by the DfT directly), 9 of them are run by those companies.
3 operators run 9 TOCs, isn’t that an average of 3 each? That isn’t excessive.

The monopoly talk is nonsense, most routes have a monopoly as they are only served by one operator.
 

EE Andy b1

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What, you mean spit the dummy out when things don't go their way and take credit for everything that goes right even though it wasn't them behind it? That sounds easy enough.

We got a Very High Frequency service on the West Coast, where else is there such an intense InterCity service.

Well they were right in 2012! Ask the DfT.

Show me another TOC that has done as well. There not perfect, far from it, especially the last few years, but none are, and most have got worse. Have you travelled on GWR lately?

As for taking credit for things going right, that's nothing new either.

So you now tell us the way it should have gone? Maybe you will be happier now. I'm sure you'll be happier when rid of your Pacers! :lol:
 

RealTrains07

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But it should have been completely relevant at the time, shouldn't it? It's just that I don't recall anyone moaning about it, but then First weren't involved.
True but that was a different time compared to now. I see where your coming from though.
Don’t think first or any company having that much market is a good idea. Too many things to go wrong
 

F Great Eastern

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It's got to the point where the majority of franchises in the country are run by First/Trenitalia and Abellio. Out of 17 franchises (excluding Caledonian Sleeper, Open Access, and TfL-awarded train operators, since they aren't awarded by the DfT directly), 9 of them are run by those companies.

You weren't around for the era when National Express had 7 or 8 by themselves I presume?
 

hwl

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True

Cant see wifi getting faster though. trains companies promise and fail on that factor all the time
Just install ad blocking by blocking most ad servers that will speed up everyone's experience.
 

6Gman

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While agree that LMS is the most likely name for the branding, I don't think it is appropriate at all.
London Midland was only 2 years ago, and is extremely 2/3 the same as London Midland Scotland. Given what a mouthful to say "London Northwestern Railway" (8 syllables) and "West Midlands Railway" (6 syllables) me and a few others I know still accidentally call the services "London Midland" still, (a vastly shorter 4 syllables). Given that LM was the local stoppers, and LMS will be the express trains, I think that is even more so confusing, especially to those who don't take the train very frequently. (One could assume LM just extended to Scotland if you weren't a West Midlander).

Given WMR/LNR still use the LM code, even more confusing!

I think something of 2000s/2010 nature which the WCML skipped from using brand king virgin instead would be more appropriate.
e.g.
West Coast Trains (<region> trains)
West (Coast) Express (Wessex Express)
Central Trains (It is certainly the economic centre with the large cities of London, Birmingham, Manchester & Glasgow comparative to the other North to South franchise), or perhaps go))) more modern "Central Railway"
Just "West Coast" (Too obvious? East Coast)
Great/Grand West Coast Railway (GNER/GC)

"West Coast" or "Central Railway" would probably be my favourite.

"CSOPRail" = "Crewe ... and some other places"

:D
 

RealTrains07

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Which age group is this that "don't travel by train anymore"? I see all age groups from 0 to 90 as I travel around.
Not from where iam from unfortunately. Maybe first should start running trains where iam from
 
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Not surprisingly I'd like to see some faster trains London-Glasgow stopping at fewer stops. A return to the Euston-Preston-Carlisle-Motherwell-Glasgow would do nicely. At least some faster / 'express' services please, even if not every hourly service.
 

Darandio

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We got a Very High Frequency service on the West Coast, where else is there such an intense InterCity service.

Well they were right in 2012! Ask the DfT.

Show me another TOC that has done as well. There not perfect, far from it, especially the last few years, but none are, and most have got worse. Have you travelled on GWR lately?

I've never said they haven't done a good job but people also need to put things in perspective about what the WCML was like before the took over. Anyone could have made vast improvements because it couldn't get worse than it already was and we haven't a clue how well Sea Containers might have done. I've got an article right in front of me now from only four years before the franchise was awarded, British Rail were internally discussing the possible closure of the WCML within the decade because underfunding had gone on for too long!

If you are looking for someone who has done as well, look at Chiltern. That certainly gives some thought to the often suggested notion that longer franchises give greater benefits.

As for taking credit for things going right, that's nothing new either.

Virgin take it to a new level though. Branson has even been at it this morning........

We brought in new high-speed tilting Pendolinos, the track was upgraded and driven by our incredible team

.....if that isn't someone still trying to take credit for the infrastructure improvements, I don't know what is.

So you now tell us the way it should have gone? Maybe you will be happier now. I'm sure you'll be happier when rid of your Pacers! :lol:

The Pacers will be gone but Arriva will still be here. Hard to decide what is worse to be honest.
 

Ben Conlin

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Do we have any idea of the timeframe for the pendolino refurbishment and the increase in services to motherwell?
 

Aictos

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The East Coast mark 4 coaches had flip-down seats in the vestibules, that provided a little extra capacity at a crunch. As I've never seen them since, I imagine that they fall foul of some rule somewhere, but if not, then that could be a possible source of extra seats.

GNER got rid of them under the Mallard refurbishment programme and replaced them with a perch bench that was designed that you couldn't sit on it but could lean against it and people say GNER were a great operator?

The original interior that BR had actually had those seats and they were useful but GNER decided to get rid of them!
 

RealTrains07

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Do we have any idea of the timeframe for the pendolino refurbishment and the increase in services to motherwell?
Pendolino wise I doubt anything will happen straight away except brand application and interior signage probably earliest is spring/mid 2020

Motherwell services most likely in december 2020 timetable change
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Do we have any idea of the timeframe for the pendolino refurbishment and the increase in services to motherwell?

It says December 2020 for more calls at Motherwell - that's about the earliest there can be any changes to the current timetable.
Pendolinos have only just finished a "facelift" and repaint, so I wouldn't expect a quick upgrade programme.
No doubt they'll do some external rebranding early on.
 

Aictos

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Also I don't know if people are aware but the brand name has already been decided by FirstGroup (70%) and Trenitalia (30%) as the website is now live and it clearly states that West Coast Rail is the name that the services will use going forward and that isn't pure speculation but fact!

https://www.westcoastrail.co.uk/
 

Jorge Da Silva

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It says December 2020 for more calls at Motherwell - that's about the earliest there can be any changes to the current timetable.
Pendolinos have only just finished a "facelift" and repaint, so I wouldn't expect a quick upgrade programme.
No doubt they'll do some external rebranding early on.

Also Walsall services start in Dec 2020 and Llandudno Summer services from May 2021
 

ainsworth74

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Also I don't know if people are aware but the brand name has already been decided by FirstGroup (70%) and Trenitalia (30%) as the website is now live and it clearly states that West Coast Rail is the name that the services will use going forward and that isn't pure speculation but fact!

https://www.westcoastrail.co.uk/


Err, not really. From the very same website you've linked under the FAQ section:

We know how important the brand is to the current franchise. We’re currently developing the new franchise’s brand and hope to be able to announce everything soon, including the new name. From the start of the new franchise, we’ll go through a new branding process to make sure the new brand and vision is reflected across the network.
 

6Gman

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GNER got rid of them under the Mallard refurbishment programme and replaced them with a perch bench that was designed that you couldn't sit on it but could lean against it and people say GNER were a great operator?

The original interior that BR had actually had those seats and they were useful but GNER decided to get rid of them!

Probably a health & safety thing?

Though TfW still has flipdown seats in the vestibules which are incredibly uncomfortable (IMO) because your back slides all over the place.
 

Aictos

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Err, not really. From the very same website you've linked under the FAQ section:

Maybe but it's a far easier name to pronounce and to use then London Midland and Scottish, LMS or any other awful names and will differentiate from Virgin after all because Virgin thought it was a great idea when they operated both Virgin West Coast and Virgin East Coast not to differentiate between the two later on, people those days still think that Virgin Trains still run trains on the ECML.

A complete break is what is needed and West Coast Rail is a clean yet stylish brand that they can use plus it describes the West Coast pretty well.

That or just call it InterCity West Coast and be done with it!
 

EE Andy b1

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Do we have any idea of the timeframe for the pendolino refurbishment and the increase in services to motherwell?

Well what is the lead time for this sort of refurbishment?
New vehicle interior plans will have to be drawn up. Contracts sorted for build of new interior fittings/carpets. I would presume (out to tender) but not guaranteed that Alstom at Widnes would get the work for interior fitting, they have the depot for the job. All new signage and safety cards.
Then there's the exterior livery, we don't know what yet, but Vinyls are the way to go now over the base coat which 390s have been having applied with only about 10 sets left to do.
You can bet it will be as far from the Virgin livery as possible.

Maybe we'll see one Class 390 Pendolino in new West Coast livery for the 09th December launch, but without new interior, then six months or so in they might start on refurbishing the interiors for the next 15 years.
 
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