The implications of false destinations for ticket validity

[sheff1]

At Sheffield the displays show:
TPE - "Express to Manchester"
Northern - "Stopping service via Hope Valley"
If the Northern services had a false destination of Reddish North (or wherever) people holding Advances to Manchester would likely be confused.

Similar with Leeds trains. "Fast via Barnsley" is shown and the stoppers do not have a false destination of Woodlesford.

I do not see why something similar cannot happen at York.

 

[yorkie]

Perhaps the title of this thread could be clearer then - "The implications of false destinations for ticket validity." If you believe there are none, why ask the question?

I don't "believe" there are none; I know there are none because I know how it works. As for the question, I think you need to re-read my opening post as I think it's quite clear that I am not questioning the validity but many people are questioning whether these trains are actually going to Leeds or not and passengers are being encouraged to take the TPE services (which their tickets may not be valid on); I refer you to this post:

Because the implication from train companies on twitter is that tickets are valid on 'fast trains' because this is 'less confusing' if they decide to hide the true destination on their screen. To put it another way, that Northern Only tickets to Leeds are valid on TransPennine Express services in cases where the destination has been hidden from the screen. Is that correct? My reading of what LNER say is that it is.

I would imagine a large proportion of passengers would seek staff help rather than unilaterally and deliberately taking the 'wrong' train.

It's fortunate there aren't departures at the exact same time, but if they did this at Leeds heading towards Manchester (where the time differential between Northern and TPE is even greater) people will, most hours, see a train booked at the exact time printed on their ticket, and if it's the only train advertised for Leeds at that time, I expect several people would take it without question.

LNER's response doesn't suggest that they think people will be confused and seek staff advice; it suggests that they think people will take the TPE trains. But it's all so subjective, so who really knows!

Is the Cross Gates false destination a new thing at York?

Yes.

I know that the York to Leeds via Harrogate train was displayed as Burley Park back in May (haven't been back since but will be soon) - I like to think I know a bit about trains but I had to do a double take and ask at customer services. As far as I can remember the York to Leeds via Micklefield and Cross Gates services were still displayed as Leeds back then.

Yes I never saw it before, until recently.

I think that the "this is a slow train" message seems like a good compromise. In the York-Leeds example, it tells people that the train is going to Leeds but will take longer and there are quicker trains available. It also helps people like me who want to perhaps take a different, slower route but want to make sure it does get to Leeds eventually!

Yes "Local stopping service" or similar would be fine.

 

[philthetube]

There is a need for something to prevent distance passengers using local services, both for their benefit and sometimes for the benefit of others when there a re capacity issues,

Apart from occasions where the slow train is the quickest the only problem which seems to occur is where advance tickets are invloved.

On a line such as the slow Euston Watford service my question would not be why do they use a false destination Southbound but why do they not Northbound.

 

[paddington]

One solution may be to use route numbers like an S-Bahn type network.

 

[paddington]

Just saw this slightly ridiculous board at Bolton

 

[BluePenguin]

Just saw this slightly ridiculous board at Bolton

What is wrong with that? I don’t know that route so would not bat an eye lid if I saw this at a station

 

[Merseysider]

What is wrong with that? I don’t know that route so would not bat an eye lid if I saw this at a station

The train is advertised as calling at Clitheroe at 11:56 followed by Blackburn at 11:32.

I knew Pacers were slow, but I wasn't aware they could go back in time.

 

[roversfan2001]

Why can't these be advertised as 'Rochdale via Manchester Victoria' and 'Southport via Rochdale'? Is it difficult to use the software to display this sort of thing? Or has it simply not been considered when the timetable has been implemented?

I think they might be now; the Rochdale via Manchester Victoria trains are definitely advertised as such at Darwen and Bolton. Given the Blackpool trains are advertised as "via Preston" on the screens at Blackburn, you'd hope they'd have a "via" description for the trains that actually need it too.

 

[TrainTube]

The train is advertised as calling at Clitheroe at 11:56 followed by Blackburn at 11:32.

I knew Pacers were slow, but I wasn't aware they could go back in time.

Didn't you know Pacers could go back in time? The Tardis is a 142 in disguise!

 

[randyrippley]

I'd hope that if someone were to miss their train because of it, they'd be given the same rights as if the train was actually terminated short.


My next question is - why is the final destination of a train given such prominence? If I turned up at Edinburgh looking to go to York, the vast majority of trains I can take won't be displaying York - I'd have to know to look for a London King's Cross, Penzance, Plymouth, Birmingham New Street, etc, and actually look at the intermediate calls - there's no reason why anyone should simply assume they'd see their destination in big letters. Perhaps on the big screens we should actually never list a final destination - just all the stops instead (e.g. 19:19 calling at Church Fenton, Micklefield, East Garforth, Garforth, Cross Gates & Leeds). Anyone who wants this specific train knows that it goes where they want it to go. Anyone simply wanting "Leeds" will very quickly find out that they'll make more stops than the train on the next platform, and be able to make a better decision.

Good point
If I'm at Preston looking for a train to Manchester, being offered a train to a nowheresville like Rose Grove is totally useless