The two attempt rule

[Greaseball3220]

Does anybody have any contact details for the OPC? Just want to clarify the following.

Stage 1 - Fail in 2013
Stage 1 - OPC Pass in 2014 (but not to TOC 'enhanced level')
Stage 2 - Fail in 2016 (TOC in question accepted the Stage 1 pass from 2014)

Do I get another shot at Stage 2 dependent on a TOC accepting the Stage 1 from 2014 or am I wiped out?

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Does anybody have any contact details for the OPC? Just want to clarify the following.

Stage 1 - Fail in 2013
Stage 1 - OPC Pass in 2014 (but not to TOC 'enhanced level')
Stage 2 - Fail in 2016 (TOC in question accepted the Stage 1 pass from 2014)

Do I get another shot at Stage 2 dependent on a TOC accepting the Stage 1 from 2014 or am I wiped out?

If you failed to reach the national standard in 2016 then I'm afraid you have used up your 2 lives

 

[Teddyward]

You can potentially do it again. The tests changed in September 2013 and there was talk that all previous fails were written off. I would ask opc for clarification.

 

[Dynamonic]

Unfortunately, as MostlyHarmless has said, you are not allowed to fail any aspect of the current OPC Driver assessments twice. Sadly, when you failed Stage 1 in 2013, you were left with only one attempt left to take both Stages 1 and 2. (Unless your first Stage 1 was under the old recruitment system like Teddyward said, which saw everyones' lives reset since)

 

[theking]

What tests did you do in 2013 if it's the same tests as 2016 then you are out.

 

[Greaseball3220]

Group Bourdon which they failed me on, Tea-Occ as far as I remember. Done again a year later to OPC but not TOC standard.

 

[whistler2018]

Does anybody have any contact details for the OPC? Just want to clarify the following.

Stage 1 - Fail in 2013
Stage 1 - OPC Pass in 2014 (but not to TOC 'enhanced level')
Stage 2 - Fail in 2016 (TOC in question accepted the Stage 1 pass from 2014)

Do I get another shot at Stage 2 dependent on a TOC accepting the Stage 1 from 2014 or am I wiped out?

https://www.theopc.co.uk/contact/

I failed the MMI in Jan/Feb 2013, I can't remember which and I'm not sure which month/year they changed. Resat the 'new' tests in 2017 and passed. I was told by my TOC at the time of resitting that I would have 2 attempts if needed and my 'lives' had effectively been re-set because the tests had changed, which I wasn't even aware of... If you passed in 2014 and failed stage 2 in 2016 I would suggest you have one attempt remaining. Use the link above to contact the OPC, though, they'll clarify.

Edit: Having read the previous replies I see the tests changed in Sep 2013. If you sat them after that then you I'm afraid you will have used your two lives.

Hope this helps

 

[Stigy]

You can potentially do it again. The tests changed in September 2013 and there was talk that all previous fails were written off. I would ask opc for clarification.

Indeed. There’s no possibly about it though. If the tests in 2013 were before they were renewed, said results would be written off and your lives renewed.

In this case, it looks like there’s only one fail if I’m reading it right and the 2013 ones don’t count depending on when they were taken.

 

[Rich.16]

Can anyone clarify if you pass all actual tests but fail your MMI how many times can you reapply? Or does the MMI only have two chances aswell?

 

[martin2345uk]

MMI is two chances too. It’s part of the psychometric tests.

 

[Westcoast-ting]

Sorry to add more confusion but I think you rule is you can’t fail one element more than twice.

So if in 2013 you failed the group Bourdon then as long as you fail another element other than the group bourdon you get to go again.

My reasoning is that I failed a cbi and asked opc if a life was gone and they said only with people who want cbi, anybody who wants mmi I was still 2 life’s with.

 

[Rich.16]

Thanks hope i pass first time then lol

MMI is two chances too. It’s part of the psychometric tests.

 

[Jon1930]

That is incorrect information, its quite simple if you fail any part of the assessment stage including mmi it's a life gone. I failed the mmi in 2013 but passed in 2016, unfortunately I failed the driver interview. In 2018 I applied again but 5 years in 2 months had passed so i had to do stage 1 and 2 again, when i was at watford for stage 2 the assessor did say to me that my mmi was still valid but
if you were to fail any of the tests today that's your 2 lives gone. I managed to pass and I'm now a trainee train driver.


QUOTE="Westcoast-ting, post: 4167381, member: 58845"]Sorry to add more confusion but I think you rule is you can’t fail one element more than twice.

So if in 2013 you failed the group Bourdon then as long as you fail another element other than the group bourdon you get to go again.

My reasoning is that I failed a cbi and asked opc if a life was gone and they said only with people who want cbi, anybody who wants mmi I was still 2 life’s with.[/QUOTE]

 

[Erowe]

How often do they review the tests and therefore reset everyones fails

 

[Stigy]

How often do they review the tests and therefore reset everyones fails

They’ve done it once before in 2013 ish (there may have been other instances over the years). It’s not the norm as such so wouldn’t be basing any future plans on another reset unfortunately.

The 2 strikes rules is more of an agreement between TOCs, there’s probably more chance of this changing than there is rejigging the test procedure.

 

[ComUtoR]

Two Strikes Rule :

https://catalogues.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/ris-3751-tom%20iss%203.pdf

2.7 Re-assessments for failed candidates

2.7.1 Railway undertakings shall not re-assess a candidate who has failed the psychometric assessment process within six months.

2.7.2 Railway undertakings shall not re-assess a candidate who has failed the psychometric assessment process more than once unless there are mitigating circumstances that have been considered and documented by the railway undertaking.

2.7.2.1 When a candidate is re-assessed, the process needs to cover only the elements which the candidate failed at the first assessment, if:
a) It is carried out within five years of the first assessment.
b) There is no evidence of a major life event having occurred since the first assessment, for examples see Appendix C of this document.

2.7.2.2 Any candidate who failed a previous version of the psychometric assessment process is considered by the industry Driver Selection Governance Group to be eligible to be assessed up to twice using the process outlined in Appendix A

 

[221129]

The 2 strikes rules is more of an agreement between TOCs

It's a lot more than that!

 

[Stigy]

It's a lot more than that!

I’m just going by what the OPC told me when I was assessed. Maybe I was foolish to quote something they told me, since they do seem rather inconsistent.

Maybe you can elaborate? Maybe it’s all but set in stone but is essentially agreement between TOCs?

 

[221129]

I’m just going by what the OPC told me when I was assessed. Maybe I was foolish to quote something they told me, since they do seem rather inconsistent.

Maybe you can elaborate? Maybe it’s all but set in stone but is essentially agreement between TOCs?

See the post directly above mine.

 

[Stigy]

See the post directly above mine.

As I said, I’m only going by what the OPC assessor told me. Maybe that’s how it originated?

 

[ComUtoR]

Maybe that’s how it originated?

Welcome to the wonderful world of .. "standards, custom and practice, policies, guidelines, and rules" you can stick the lot of them in air quotes. Even when you read the RSSB standards they are listed only as 'guidance' and TOCs can set their own rules. There are a lot of 'standards' that are based on agreements from ATOC. Its like the 225 'rule' Technically its only 'guidance' based on 'agreement' from ATOC.

The 'standards' are there for a reason and TOCs do agree to them and also collectively decide when to change them. It used to be that the tests were set in stone but TOCs have been given the freedom to set higher standards and set additional tests. That additional flexibility is what we see today in the current standards and today's testing.

With the EU license part of the requirements for getting one is that you are trained to a 'standard' and that because you have one it proves that this 'standard' was met. In the TDLCR (Train Drivers Licences and Certificates Regulation) you have a more mandated set of rules that are required; which is the legislative side.

The TOCs are very much part of the machinery that sets all the standards. BUT that means that everyone agrees to adhere to them. The 'standards' are pretty much the 'rules' we live by. There are group standards for pretty much everything :/

Another thing that comes up quite often is the eye test. TOCs use the Ishihara plates to test colourblindness. The TDLCR states "normal colour vision: use of a recognised test, such as Ishihara, as well as another recognised test if required". The Ishihara is cheap, quick, easy and a valid test so the TOCs all use that BUT they could use a lantern test. The standards allow for some flexibility but the TOCs all gravitated towards the same test. This in some ways, is good. It provides a fair across the board approach and having a standard that everyone meets allows Driver to move anywhere in the country.

Having those 'standards' is integral to what drives the railway. it is the glue that keeps us together and keeps the entire network safe. We can all split hairs as to how they are created but they are followed like commandments but written in blood.