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West Coast Partnership: Awarded to First Trenitalia

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Chris125

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Im not saying 0 trains should stop at OOC, but for your argument about Heathrow why should the Glasgow Fasts stop there? People from Preston aren't going to go from Heathrow, neither are people from Manchester.

Aside from the easy interchange with Crossrail, the intense frequency of HS2 services through Old Oak Common mean there's little (if any) advantage to non-stopping.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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One issue I have with Virgin Trains is their belief that it's them and only them who take full credit for who upgraded the WCML and it's infrastructure, nothing to do with the fact that it was a industry thing with partners such as Network Rail etc...

The WCML upgrade would not have been completed were it not for the PUG1/PUG2 (Passenger Upgrades 1 (125mph) and 2 (140mph) contracts which Virgin were able to enforce on Railtrack/Network Rail.
Yes, NR did the work after Railtrack screwed up, but only because they couldn't get out of the PUG contracts.
The much despised SRA under Richard Bowker and the Rail Regulator Tom Winsor played a big part too.
We're still waiting for the 140mph south of Crewe.
 
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Skie

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Just had an alert from the trainline that Advances are now available up to Feb. Is it Virgin doing a quick cash grab before their franchise ends or is it normal for the incumbent to offer advances so far ahead of the usual 12 weeks?

We've got a large group travelling in Feb and usually try to nab First class too, but a bit suspect of the "new offer" that First might try to ram down out throats, most likely to be triangular sandwiches and not the decent fare Virgin provide.
 

ainsworth74

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I'd be staggered if the onboard catering changed a) that quickly and b) particularly substantially.
 

TrainTube

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Just had an alert from the trainline that Advances are now available up to Feb. Is it Virgin doing a quick cash grab before their franchise ends or is it normal for the incumbent to offer advances so far ahead of the usual 12 weeks?

We've got a large group travelling in Feb and usually try to nab First class too, but a bit suspect of the "new offer" that First might try to ram down out throats, most likely to be triangular sandwiches and not the decent fare Virgin provide.
Are you sure? On Virgins website no advances are listed beyond November!
 

pt_mad

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Interesting interview with SOS for Transport on BBC news channel this morning just after 10am. Was mainly about airport scanners but HS2 was touched upon. The minister said there will be an answer by the end of the year, and words to the effect of
he'd seen the same stories as the rest of the public regards potential spiralling costs, and wanted to know the costs would weight up with the benefits in order to make a decision. Again those aren't quotes but a rough idea of the gist of what he said. He also mentioned he wanted to make improvements to infrastructure which is often the cause of trains being late, and is a commuter himself. Mentioned within limited budgets.
 

Bletchleyite

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I've done similar, train Runcorn to Euston , taxi or tube to Paddington, train to Heathrow. Its more convenient and less hassle than trying to fly from Manchester.

The problem is that if you miss your flight you'd best hope your travel insurer is good as the airline won't rebook you for free. If only they'd offer rail "codeshares" as some other countries do. Maybe HS2 will (or could it be something, going back on topic, that First Trenitalia might consider?). But without that, I'd always stop the night if going from the North to LHR by train. Which isn't that costly a thing - you'd think hotels at LHR would be expensive, but there is massive overprovision so they are generally not.
 

chrish2

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Just had an alert from the trainline that Advances are now available up to Feb. Is it Virgin doing a quick cash grab before their franchise ends or is it normal for the incumbent to offer advances so far ahead of the usual 12 weeks?

We've got a large group travelling in Feb and usually try to nab First class too, but a bit suspect of the "new offer" that First might try to ram down out throats, most likely to be triangular sandwiches and not the decent fare Virgin provide.

This is part of Virgin's 6 month booking horizon launched in 2016

https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/abou...ersuade-more-people-to-switch-to-rail-1562664
 

HH

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Just had an alert from the trainline that Advances are now available up to Feb. Is it Virgin doing a quick cash grab before their franchise ends or is it normal for the incumbent to offer advances so far ahead of the usual 12 weeks?

We've got a large group travelling in Feb and usually try to nab First class too, but a bit suspect of the "new offer" that First might try to ram down out throats, most likely to be triangular sandwiches and not the decent fare Virgin provide.
They did the same when they lost CrossCountry. It really shouldn't be allowed, but there's nothing to stop it and Virgin Trains (which probably means Stagecoach here) have always taken advantage of every last thing that they contractually can.
 

ainsworth74

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They did the same when they lost CrossCountry. It really shouldn't be allowed, but there's nothing to stop it and Virgin Trains (which probably means Stagecoach here) have always taken advantage of every last thing that they contractually can.

To be fair National Express did the same on the East Coast when they handed the keys back.
 

yorkie

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Just another reminder this thread is to discuss the West Coast franchise being awarded to First Trenitalia; if anyone wishes to discuss anything else, please create a new thread.

Speculation can go in the Speculative Ideas forum, while if anyone wants advice on planning a journey, please use Trip Planning & Reports.

Aviation discussion can go in the Other Transport section.

We have plenty of capacity for threads to discuss any other topic; there is no need to try to cram loads of different discussions into this thread ;)

This thread is already over 600 posts long, so if anyone wishes to go into detail about any particular aspect of the franchise changeover, a new thread for that might be a good idea too.

Thanks :)
 

scouseyb123

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The ten day period of silence is over, waiting to hear in further detail what FirstGroup’s plans are!
 

krus_aragon

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The ten day period of silence is over, waiting to hear in further detail what FirstGroup’s plans are!
Do bear in mind that it's a ten day minimum, and if there have been any legal queries that period would be extended.

Though I too would like to hear more.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Contract signed yesterday - announcement on the First Group web site.
So evidently no legal challenge.
No new details of services.
https://otp.tools.investis.com/generic/regulatory-story.aspx?newsid=1325072&cid=858
Further to the announcement on 14 August 2019, FirstGroup plc and Trenitalia UK Ltd are pleased to announce that the Department for Transport yesterday (28 August 2019) formally signed the new West Coast Partnership agreement with our 70:30 joint venture First Trenitalia West Coast Rail Limited, following the customary ‘standstill period’ of at least ten days. As with other UK rail franchise awards, a ‘phase one review’ of the award will also be carried out by the Competition and Markets Authority. The new Partnership will operate from 8 December 2019.
 
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Aictos

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Great news, just hope the said authority doesn’t derail the incoming TOC by putting roadblocks in the way.

Next few months be interesting too as more information about the TOC comes into play.
 

EE Andy b1

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Contract signed yesterday - announcement on the First Group web site.
So evidently no legal challenge.
No new details of services.
https://otp.tools.investis.com/generic/regulatory-story.aspx?newsid=1325072&cid=858

I suppose now First Trenitalia can get onto the rolling stock manufacturers and sign off on the new build EMU and Bi-modes and get a proper descent interior at least as good as LNER Azumas (cos it will probably be Class 80xs) but better hopefully!
The contracts for Vinyls and interior re-fit on Class 390s can go ahead and suppliers sourced. Contract for Class 221 makeover can be signed off.
Any timetable changes for December submitted.
All the publications can now soon be ordered and printed for 8th December start.

It's going to be a fun 4 months one way or the other. :D :rolleyes: :lol:
 

The Planner

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Any timetable changes for December submitted.
All the publications can now soon be ordered and printed for 8th December start.
They won't be changing anything for December, that boat has long sailed, they won't be anywhere near mobilised as a TOC for a little while yet.
 

EE Andy b1

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They won't be changing anything for December, that boat has long sailed, they won't be anywhere near mobilised as a TOC for a little while yet.

No maybe not timetable wise, but i can assure you in the background things are already changing and have and 8th December is the changeover so plenty will be going on. Management meetings have already happened and so we wait to see. Everything else will take a lot longer.

New Name & Brand? That's first.
 

Muenchener

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They won't be changing anything for December, that boat has long sailed, they won't be anywhere near mobilised as a TOC for a little while yet.
Out of interest what is the cut off date for proposals for the May '20 timetable? Doubtless the TOC's should be working them up in the coming weeks.
 

The Planner

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Out of interest what is the cut off date for proposals for the May '20 timetable? Doubtless the TOC's should be working them up in the coming weeks.
If it was anything big, 55 weeks out, normal changes 40 weeks out which was the 9th Aug, so they couldn't do anything for May 20. If they fancy really doing anything then its Dec 20.
 

Muenchener

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If it was anything big, 55 weeks out, normal changes 40 weeks out which was the 9th Aug, so they couldn't do anything for May 20. If they fancy really doing anything then its Dec 20.
Ahh! Thx. Guess we will have to wait to see how that particular picture develops. In the case of the WCML; it gives First a little time to get the feel of the ship before anything radical occurs.
 

CeeJ

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Who owns copyright on "LMS" and connected brandings? The DfT?

From what other members of the forum have said before, the DfT owns the copyrights to most (if not all) historical railway brands (I.e. Southern, InterCity, GWR), and this should include LMS. Therefore if First Trenitalia wanted to use it for the WCP then they would be able to do so.
 

rdlover777

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From what other members of the forum have said before, the DfT owns the copyrights to most (if not all) historical railway brands (I.e. Southern, InterCity, GWR), and this should include LMS. Therefore if First Trenitalia wanted to use it for the WCP then they would be able to do so.

wait, so does that mean they also own the pre-grouping names?
 
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