Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[samuelmorris]

Actually, I find the Aventras are gifted with good build quality.

As a regular 345 user I'd disagree. They aren't terrible, but the telltale Bombardier rattles and squeaks appeared on units that were only a few months old. The 707 is the higher quality product, I can almost guarantee it, but I genuinely believe the Aventra is the better quality design. The Desiro City has a few shortcomings, one of which led to the 701s replacing them in the first place, and that isn't something you can inherently blame on the TOC (or their predecessor that ordered them) or the DfT etc.
The seating on the 701s as far as I can tell will be identical to that on the 707s, so no better but no worse.

As for the Alstom quality argument, wasn't a fair amount of the 95/96TS assembly carried out in spain? When slagging off Alstom people also tend to forget about the Pendolinos, which while not perfect by any means, certainly don't have the unenviable reputation the Junipers had.

Back on-topic, I was very disheartened to see the concept renders with the yellow fronts, but actually if it stays like that I think this is the best looking Aventra yet. The main difference being the lack of horn grille. Is that going to change do we think?

 

[swt_passenger]

Will do, thanks. Makes more sense

The original SWT blurb about the 707 did say 533 standing, but the franchise agreement is dated after the downward revision of DfT’s 707 capacity formula for the train to 3 per sq m. That doesn’t account for all the change, but it’s also possible the original figure was a crush load, rather than the expected 4 per sq m.

 

[Goldfish62]

https://twitter.com/anonswr/status/1168217216946495488?s=19


Also noted speculation of longitudinal seats too. SWR are being very secretive about these units, which does concern me. You'd think they'd want to show off new units like GA. Especially since from the start of the franchise they told people do expect these units from 'mid 2019'.

The renders show a virtually identical internal layout to the 700s, albeit without the intrusive heater ducting. No longitudinal seats.

GA had a long lead time on their units and were able to display mockups which influenced the final design. The finished interiors were not shown publicly until well after testing had started.

SWR ordered the 701s immediately after the franchise agreement was signed and with the original timescales the interior layout was already locked down.

 

[Midmat]

Seemed inevitable but confirmation now that first in service trains not due until mid-2020

A £900 million fleet of new trains designed to ease overcrowding on some of London’s busiest commuter routes could be up to a year late arriving, it was revealed today.

The state-of-the-art Aventra trains should have been entering test service now before starting passenger use in December on South Western Railway (SWR) routes serving mainline Waterloo, the UK’s busiest station.

Instead, the first of the 90 new trains are not expected to enter passenger service on the Reading, Windsor and London suburban routes until the middle of 2020.

Anthony Smith, head of UK rail watchdog Passenger Focus, immediately demanded a “fares freeze” for the thousands affected by the delay.
Concerns over the new fleet, which can be operated by just the driver, are at the core of a long-running dispute with the RMT union which today ordered the 38th 24-hour strike by hundreds of train guards.

The delay bringing the 90 Aventras — 30 five-carriage and 60 10-carriage trains — into service was today blamed by SWR on problems at manufacturer Bombardier which is building the £895m fleet at its Derby factory.

The trains, ordered by FirstGroup/MTR months before it took over the SWR franchise in August 2017, are the same style as those being used on Crossrail, which is suffering major construction delays.

Andy Mellors, SWR managing director, said: “There have been some well-publicised delays with the new trains being delivered by Bombardier, our supplier, to other operators.

"We are working with Bombardier to confirm a revised delivery programme but we expect to see the first trains in service around the middle of next year.

“It will be late. There are delays with the production of those trains. The first train is now well advanced on the production line.”

A Bombardier spokesman said: “There has been a delay to the programme but the first unit is planned to be delivered to our customer, SWR, in the spring.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...900m-fleet-of-driveronly-trains-a4226831.html

 

[Bessie]

Least surprising news of the day. At least I can enjoy the "luxury" of the 458/5 seats for a little longer!

 

[Mikey C]

Least surprising news of the day. At least I can enjoy the "luxury" of the 458/5 seats for a little longer!

And thankfully for you, unlike the Goblin users and their 172s, the current trains don't have an urgent date to be transferred elsewhere!

 

[samuelmorris]

Seemed inevitable but confirmation now that first in service trains not due until mid-2020


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...900m-fleet-of-driveronly-trains-a4226831.html

Well at least they've finally admitted it. Almost 9 months after we knew about it, but there you go, better late than never.

 

[Goldfish62]

Well at least they've finally admitted it. Almost 9 months after we knew about it, but there you go, better late than never.

I don't think it was a secret, except to the ES. Mellors stated in Modern Railways that none would be in service until next year.

 

[samuelmorris]

I don't think it was a secret, except to the ES. Mellors stated in Modern Railways that none would be in service until next year.

But not to the public they didn't, did they?

 

[hwl]

Well at least they've finally admitted it. Almost 9 months after we knew about it, but there you go, better late than never.

At least being honest/realistic about the amount of time between completion of first units (5 & 10 car) and testing before entry into service unlike many other current introductions.

 

[samuelmorris]

I suppose so, but "Spring" to "middle of" is fairly ambiguous anyway, gives a lot of room for inevitable setbacks. The partially automated control on these units is probably going to take a while to get right.

 

[387star]

I assume ironing boards won't be fitted

 

[Meerkat]

They want a fares freeze?! It’s not like the old stock is pacers, it’s brand new or relatively recently refurbished stuff!
Don’t think they want to be linking fares rises with new stock anyway - that could go ugly for passengers....

 

[TEW]

I suppose so, but "Spring" to "middle of" is fairly ambiguous anyway, gives a lot of room for inevitable setbacks. The partially automated control on these units is probably going to take a while to get right.

The ABDO system is not planned to be operational from the day the units are introduced, but will come later.

 

[swt_passenger]

They want a fares freeze?! It’s not like the old stock is pacers, it’s brand new or relatively recently refurbished stuff!
Don’t think they want to be linking fares rises with new stock anyway - that could go ugly for passengers....

Yes, quite a ridiculous statement to make for someone in his position, ie Passenger Focus...

 

[hwl]

The ABDO system is not planned to be operational from the day the units are introduced, but will come later.

They want a fares freeze?! It’s not like the old stock is pacers, it’s brand new or relatively recently refurbished stuff!
Don’t think they want to be linking fares rises with new stock anyway - that could go ugly for passengers....

Given 43% of the services in the 701 area will be seeing 10 car trains up from 8car next year that is still quite a service improvement.

 

[Goldfish62]

But not to the public they didn't, did they?

What TOCs have ever easily admitted their trains would be late? I don't recall SWT trumpeting late deliveries, and it's not like they had no experience of that.

 

[hwl]

The ABDO system is not planned to be operational from the day the units are introduced, but will come later.

Very sensible, it really only makes sense to introduce when all the old stock as been swapped out and everyone is used to driver open etc. already.

 

[hwl]

What TOCs have ever easily admitted their trains would be late? I don't recall SWT trumpeting late deliveries, and it's not like they had no experience of that.

Indeed the 701 will be less delayed than anything SWT did this decade...
(The only one I can't remember precisely is the 450s in the previous decade)

 

[swt_passenger]

Indeed the 701 will be less delayed than anything SWT did this decade...
(The only one I can't remember precisely is the 450s in the previous decade)

IIRC the extra 17 x 450s was done with no announcement? If there was one it went under the radar. Perhaps that’s a good way of limiting expectations...

 

[hwl]

IIRC the extra 17 x 450s was done with no announcement? If there was one it went under the radar. Perhaps that’s a good way of limiting expectations...

Everything was information lite back then!

 

[Goldfish62]

Indeed the 701 will be less delayed than anything SWT did this decade...
(The only one I can't remember precisely is the 450s in the previous decade)

I think they were about 5-6 months late, which was an improvement over the 18 months late for the 458s.

 

[hwl]

I think they were about 5-6 months late, which was an improvement over the 18 months late for the 458s.

707s also a good 8 months late for the 1st unit then got worse!
455 retraction etc also over a year late.
Given Derby build rates they should all be completed by the end of next year may be Jan 2021 but there will be a lot of units completed by the time the first is in service with easily 5 in daily testing and 3/4 for daily driver training.

 

[hwl]

The fun bit will be finding enough 3rd rail network to test and do driver training on.

 

[RealTrains07]

Funny how the first unit is near completion but wont be delivered until early next year? Doesn’t sound very complete to me

Not sure about the 701s being driver operation only. Creates more fair dodgers if you ask me

 

[Goldfish62]

707s also a good 8 months late for the 1st unit then got worse!
455 retraction etc also over a year late.
Given Derby build rates they should all be completed by the end of next year may be Jan 2021 but there will be a lot of units completed by the time the first is in service with easily 5 in daily testing and 3/4 for daily driver training.

Class 458/5 rebuild 15 months late, Class 456 refurbishment a year list, to add to the list.

 

[theking]

Funny how the first unit is near completion but wont be delivered until early next year? Doesn’t sound very complete to me

They won't be handed over to SWR until they are nearly/ready for passenger service so driver training can commence.

The 710's were not handed over to ARL until the last minute and the units were signed off enough so driver training could commence all the testing was done by Bombardier.

 

[hwl]

Funny how the first unit is near completion but wont be delivered until early next year? Doesn’t sound very complete to me

Not sure about the 701s being driver operation only. Creates more fair dodgers if you ask me

It is called proper testing and de bugging. Realistically SWR will want about 15 fully working units before the first goes into service and have lots of driver training done before hand otherwise the logistics then get very messy. On the SWR Metro network there need to be lots of driver training in advance to make entry into service smooth. GTR pulled the plug on Siemens try to do otherwise with the 700s eventually as you need a decent float of debugged units till fairly far in to the roll out. CAF roll out at Northern has been shambles

 

[Bigfoot]

Gbrf will be undertaking the majority of the testing according to company council.

 

[Goldfish62]

Funny how the first unit is near completion but wont be delivered until early next year? Doesn’t sound very complete to me

Testing at Old Dalby will take several months so it's wholly feasible that the first unit is almost ready.