Single Leg pricing for some journeys to/from King's Cross give passengers a better deal on fares

[Bletchleyite]

I've left the train at Milton Keynes Central actually on my Crewe to London journey with West Midlands Trains before because I ran out of water and was thirsty. Of course there is absolutely no provision at all onboard on WMT. This of course is not permitted even now by the ticket type (Super Off Peak Return) but fortunately WMT chose not to enforce their onerous restrictions.

While there is no official definition any more, convention for many years is that Break of Journey is constituted by "leaving Railway property when this is not necessary for the ticketed journey" and not simply by changing trains unnecessarily. So what you did is fine.

 

[Joe Paxton]

The solution to that one is in your pocket and at a TVM, though don't bet on the barrier staff not being stupid and refusing to let you through, requiring a single to Wandsworth Common in addition.

Yes, though in that instance there was zero time for that.

(As I said upthread, I haven't experienced the problems others have at Clapham Jn with a BoJ or starting / finishing short.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, though in that instance there was zero time for that.

(As I said upthread, I haven't experienced the problems others have at Clapham Jn with a BoJ or starting / finishing short.)

Nor have I, I think there may be one problem member of staff as so often causes this kind of issue.

 

[Starmill]

While there is no official definition any more, convention for many years is that Break of Journey is constituted by "leaving Railway property when this is not necessary for the ticketed journey" and not simply by changing trains unnecessarily. So what you did is fine.

I did go out of the station to use one of the nearby shops because the cafe on the platform was closed (and looked less than well stocked) . But yes exactly.

 

[kieron]

Which isn't really the point - one should not, on any ticket, have to pay extra to pop out of the station between trains to grab some food if the station's offerings are not acceptable.

If you replace an "any permitted" Mallaig-Milton Keynes off peak return (with a 3A restriction) with a Mallaig-Milton Keynes single (again 3A) and a Milton Keynes-Mallaig one (5F), you're going from a situation where the ticket denies break of journey in one direction to one where it denies it on both. You can't pop out wherever the train stops as things stand.

To me, this trial involves reducing the validity period of the return leg of a journey on a few long distance tickets. I'm happy to accept that, in time, it may lead to further restrictions being placed on break of journey for some other tickets which already restrict it.

You seem to be talking about larger changes than this, though, and ones I wouldn't have said this trial sheds much light on. In the previous post, it was removing all of the tickets from a route which permitted break of journey. In this one, it's replacing a ticket which had no break of journey restrictions with one which did restrict it.

Perhaps I am just failing to see your real point.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps I am just failing to see your real point.

Yes, it is quite simply that Break of Journey is permitted on the return half of nearly all (Super) Off Peaks but not on the outward, this would, in those cases, change to a situation where it was permitted in neither direction. This loss of validity is not acceptable; the only acceptable outcome is it becoming permitted on all of these new Singles, ideally them being valid for two days per the Anytime Single.

 

[sheff1]

the only acceptable outcome is it becoming permitted on all of these new Singles, ideally them being valid for two days per the Anytime Single.

I do not think replacing the current one month validity with a one or two day validity can, by any stretch of the imagination, be considered compatible with the DfT statement that the aim of the trial is to "significantly boost customer confidence and flexibility in booking train tickets". Of course, what you or I think is acceptable will be of no concern to DfT/RDG.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

At present, I can buy a 'Saver' (whatever that is on LNER trial flows, it's an Off-Peak Return where I travel) in advance or on the day. I can return when I feel like with a one month period. I can come back early if the weather is bad, I can stay later if the weather is good. Similarly if a job takes less/more time than expected etc.

In the trial, I can travel out as at present with the same restrictions? I cannot buy (and therefore reserve a seat) for the return portion of my journey until I am certain of the day of travel. Lo and behold, whilst I am away, I am not near a station to buy a ticket, when I arrive at the station there are no Advances available and the single which I can buy may be at half-the-saver price or at the Anytime price. Regardless it is generally too late to get a seat reservation (except Cross Country on-the-go reservations). Also the half-saver-single has time restrictions similar to my outward journey.

I fail to see where I am benefiting from this trial. Most of my Off Peak Returns (Savers) have an 0429 restriction on them at present (EMR fare-setter). The next station along the line has a 0929 restriction (Cross-Country fare-setter). No interference in fares in the interests of simplification please! Not without proper consultation and specific impacts stated clearly as part of the process.

I clearly see how a TOC and by extension DfT will benefit financially.

I can see benefits to passengers who presently buy an Anytime Return but travel one (or both) ways off-peak. I can see benefits where an Advance Single is only available/suitable in one direction and a half-saver becomes available for the other leg. But on the West Coast that facility is already available, so should not need trialing to gauge the impact.

 

[takno]

At present, I can buy a 'Saver' (whatever that is on LNER trial flows, it's an Off-Peak Return where I travel) in advance or on the day. I can return when I feel like with a one month period. I can come back early if the weather is bad, I can stay later if the weather is good. Similarly if a job takes less/more time than expected etc.

In the trial, I can travel out as at present with the same restrictions? I cannot buy (and therefore reserve a seat) for the return portion of my journey until I am certain of the day of travel. Lo and behold, whilst I am away, I am not near a station to buy a ticket, when I arrive at the station there are no Advances available and the single which I can buy may be at half-the-saver price or at the Anytime price. Regardless it is generally too late to get a seat reservation (except Cross Country on-the-go reservations). Also the half-saver-single has time restrictions similar to my outward journey.

I fail to see where I am benefiting from this trial. Most of my Off Peak Returns (Savers) have an 0429 restriction on them at present (EMR fare-setter). The next station along the line has a 0929 restriction (Cross-Country fare-setter). No interference in fares in the interests of simplification please! Not without proper consultation and specific impacts stated clearly as part of the process.

I clearly see how a TOC and by extension DfT will benefit financially.

I can see benefits to passengers who presently buy an Anytime Return but travel one (or both) ways off-peak. I can see benefits where an Advance Single is only available/suitable in one direction and a half-saver becomes available for the other leg. But on the West Coast that facility is already available, so should not need trialing to gauge the impact.

The most obvious one you've missed out is people who don't plan in advance (or may not make a specific train) and only want to go one way. It's surely a fairly common use-case that the return might not be for a month, or might be via a different mode of transport, or, heaven forfend, might be via somewhere which didn't hit the jackpot and appear on the permitted route map for the ticket.

I don't typically reserve, but the the trains are currently half full of reservations for passengers who don't show. removing the ability for a small class of users to make a whole bunch of reservations on trains they aren't actually going to travel on would likely be a benefit.

 

[Haywain]

But on the West Coast that facility is already available, so should not need trialing to gauge the impact.

It's not available on the day of travel. That is a significant difference.

 

[Starmill]

there seem very few downsides to this trial.

I wonder if there would be general agreement on that point now