What counts as public transport?

[roadierway77]

At the moment I'm making a map of public transport in the UK. And I need to know what to include.

Obviously trains, buses, ferries, trams etc are all public transport. An argument can be made for taxis, but they don't run to a set schedule like trains or buses. In rural areas like Lincolnshire I'm aware on-demand minibuses (demand-responsive transport) run to remote villages, would these count?

How about the minibus to Cape Wrath? Unlike a taxi, this is set to run 7 days a week from Easter till October but doesn't run to a set schedule as it relies on the Durness ferry operating, which can operate at different times due to the weather or sometimes not operate at all.

And then there's heritage railways. Anybody can purchase a ticket on these railways, but their main purpose is for leisure. If these are included what about, say, the Ruislip Lido railway? This might be a stretch and personally I wouldn't include this but it could be used for other purposes than leisure.

How about people-movers at airports, like the ULTra system at Heathrow, or the AirRail Link at Birmingham Airport?

What are people's opinions on what should be considered public transport?

 

[sheff1]

The Wikipedia definition seems about right to me.
"Public transport is a system of transport for passengers by group travel systems available for use by the general public, typically managed on a schedule, operated on established routes, and that charge a posted fee for each trip."

On the question of taxis - in both Belfast & Liverpool, taxis used to operate on some routes on the basis that anyone could flag them down and board, even if one or more people were already on board. Effectively they were like the dolmuş in Turkey and similar systems in many other eastern European and Asian countries. I am not sure whether they still operate in those two cities, or even elsewhere in the UK, and if they do wheher you would want to include them.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I've used heritage railways to get somewhere before

 

[vlad]

How about the minibus to Cape Wrath? Unlike a taxi, this is set to run 7 days a week from Easter till October but doesn't run to a set schedule as it relies on the Durness ferry operating, which can operate at different times due to the weather or sometimes not operate at all.

I'd say this is public transport as it's a timetabled run open to all, even if the timetable changes.

It's not the only one - there's a bus to Lindisfarne that can only run at low tide.

 

[etr221]

One consideration I would take into account is its VAT treatment: "public passenger transport" is generally zero rated - see https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-vat-treatment-of-passenger-transport-notice-744a for details.

If I were making such a map, I would combine that condition (zero rated for VAT) with 'mapability' - that there is some sort of published schedule of service along some sort of established route (if there isn't, what are you mapping?)

 

[Howardh]

The airline/cable car over the Thames must be the most used non convential public transport system? Cable cars include ski lifts in Scotland and the one up to the Great Orme!

 

[sprunt]

The airline/cable car over the Thames must be the most used non convential public transport system? Cable cars include ski lifts in Scotland and the one up to the Great Orme!

Would funiculars or zahnradbahns count as non conventional? I'd be surprised if there weren't some of those that are more heavily used than the dangleway. Oh, or are you just talking about in the UK?

 

[mark-h]

The airline/cable car over the Thames must be the most used non convential public transport system?

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the passengers are using it as "transport" rather than as a novelty/sightseeing experience.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would probably suggest something like "a form of transport where the vehicle is not dedicated to an individual, where an individual fare is payable for each person travelling (though not to the exclusion of group discounts), and where any[1] fare-paying member of the public can travel on payment of said fare provided capacity is available".

Taxis, Sadiq cycles (!), car clubs etc are not really "public transport", though they do have a role. A privately hired coach is not public transport.

[1] Probably including arbitrary subsets, e.g. dedicated bus services for disabled people and village buses - the key is that the ability to use the service is not dedicated to a group of individuals other than on objective criteria like disability. Though some private estates' bus services come a little close to this line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the passengers are using it as "transport" rather than as a novelty/sightseeing experience.

More people would if (the Olympics excepted) it operated between two locations that actually had any travel demand between them. It's difficult to build it into any reasonable journey deliberately (other than just doing an out and back) - I've tried a few times - let alone for it to fulfil a transport need.

 

[jumble]

I've used heritage railways to get somewhere before

Isle of man steam railway to get to the the Airport perhaps

 

[Howardh]

Isle of man steam railway to get to the the Airport perhaps

Done that!!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Coming rather late to this discussion, but two points occur to me:
- a broad (but I think workable) definition of public transport might be 'transport available to anyone in exchange for a fare for the journey'. This would cover scheduled buses, trains, ferries etc and taxis. Possibly add something like 'no need for the user to have any particular skills' to exclude self-drive and bike hire. And maybe add something about the journey being useful to exclude tourist attractions (although that starts to get subjective in that people have explained above about their 'business' use of heritage railways).
- in terms of mapping, traditional bus routes, railways and so on can be shown as lines. Could 'on demand' services be shown as zones where they can be used?

 

[Ken H]

Age Concern run some regular minibus services here, but you have to ring and book a seat. Its donations, no fare payable, I think.
Does the bristol harbour ferry count? Timetable and fares.
If you dont regard heritage railways as public transport because people ride them for fun, not to get from A to B, what about scenic bus routes? The 822 goes from Pateley Bridge to Grassington over Greenhow Hill. people will ride that because its pretty, not to go to Grassington

 

[WatcherZero]

The main thing that separates general public transport from on-demand public transport (such as taxis and community buses) is you don't have too book it, it runs to a schedule. Legally what separates charity/private school scheduled transport which for example might have a weekly or daily bus operating to schedule, from public transport (and the additional licensing regulations that go with it) is they aren't allowed to charge a fare for the journey only for additional services (such as food, accommodation, entertainment tickets).