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Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

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Big Ralphie

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Sadly I don't think the council is going to come up with any plans to solve the transport problems in the city centre so buses are going to suffer delays it will get worse when new St. James centre opens next year wich will attract thousands we can live in hope tho.
 
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Stan Drews

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They screwed up when they put the tramline along Princes Street. It should have gone along George Street, which could have been ‘pedestrianised’ other than the trams. Princes Street should then have been buses only, with general traffic confined to Queen Street.
 

ScotRail158725

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They screwed up when they put the tramline along Princes Street. It should have gone along George Street, which could have been ‘pedestrianised’ other than the trams. Princes Street should then have been buses only, with general traffic confined to Queen Street.
tbh thats a good idea, even better just completely not start the trams at all
 

158756

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The quote "reduced volume of buses crossing the city centre without a loss in the routes served" is interesting. Does this mean the council are somehow going to force Lothian to operate their buses less frequently? Most cities in the UK have few cross-city routes anyway, and London is cutting them, so maybe this is an area where Lothian's much praised operation is wrong - such routes tend to be unreliable and politically unpopular with the focus on the pollution they emit.
 

OmniCity999

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Believe one of the ideas is to have multiple bus terminal hubs stationed around the City.

Haymarket (tram)
Western Approach Road (area) / West End
Bristo Square / Nicholson Square (potentially future tram stop)
Leith Street / St Andrew Square (tram)

etc.

East Coast could run to say the Leith Street Hub with Lothian Country running to Western Approach or Haymarket hubs.

Alot of out of peak 'cross city' services would terminate at these terminal points with hopper services linking all the hubs. This would then allow services to run further outwith the city and reach different parts of communities. Peak express services could run through Zone 1.

For example, see map attached. Only hopper and tour buses would use Zone 1 with any City buses stopping in Zone 2 and any bus stopping in Zone 3.

Parking would be banned in Zone 1 unless you're a resident and a congestion charge type fare would be brought in for Zones 1/2. Coaches would also pay for the right to use Zone 1. Congestion charging and parking would be based on the vehicles Euro status. Zones 3/4 would exist as a recommended parking charge with Zone 3 charging coaches for use. Park and Ride sites would need to have their capacity at least doubled, potentially multi storey, and users of such services could get a reduction on city travel.

This way, over pedestrianisation would not become a problem, because it is a genuine problem which could arise.

Hopper buses would run as low emission / zero emission vehicles and would need to be a mix of double decks and single decks.

Although, i don't think it's the best idea as surely it would add more congestion?
 

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A330Alex

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On a different note, where else can ECB terminate in the West End? Melville Street is being redone soon and buses won't be able to terminate there anymore.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Haymarket would work best in my view, was used for years by first and seemed to work, also ties in well with other East Lothian routes such as the 26 and 44.

587 out on the X25, repainted or just not been used for a while?
 

Edirim

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Not painted yet.

579 returned in madder with ls code. Sitting at marine Ramp just now .
 

NotATrainspott

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What's particularly interesting with ideas like this is that they start to subject buses to the same sorts of constraints that affect trams. That is, that they now have to be thought of as part of a wider system, rather than just being about vehicles coming and doing as they wish. The most intriguing part is then the relationship between the city and the buses which serve it. What would First or Stagecoach make of a proposal to make it harder to serve the places where passengers want to go? Does the council have the ability to implement changes like this without legal problems when it has a financial stake in Lothian?

This is all happening for a good reason though - the city is becoming popular enough that it just won't be feasible to allow the bus free-for-all for much longer. It's like Oxford Street in London, which is now becoming so popular for people that it'll be hard having even a completely bus-only street.

And, it starts to raise questions about whether the original 2003 outline plans for the tram network (Line 1, 2, and 3) are going to be sufficient. Back then the intention seemed to be to build a metro for the busiest of routes and the network was largely designed around that. Now, with ideas like a second city crossing via the Old Town, will the tram expand to cover other, secondary routes too? Maybe trams will end up going down Morningside Road. Who knows, really.
 

ScotRail158725

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Not painted yet.

579 returned in madder with ls code. Sitting at marine Ramp just now .
ah bugger, that means a bunch of LS B7s will be for the door this week then. a few were withdrawn & sold to Moffat & Williamson last week
 

Busman84

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Since I’m never in Edinburgh these days what buses can I expect on each route?What garage operate these? If somebody could post information it would be very much appreciated. Last time I was through Tridents were in large numbers. Thanks
 

SpeedbirdA350

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ScotRail158725

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Since I’m never in Edinburgh these days what buses can I expect on each route?What garage operate these? If somebody could post information it would be very much appreciated. Last time I was through Tridents were in large numbers. Thanks
1- any central stuff
2- any longstone B7RLEs
3- the remianing LS b7s & MK1 B5TL
4- Ex Go-Ahead London B9s
5- 951-960
6- a streetair
7- Any Central doubles
8- 1051-1062 and the odd ex london
10- E400s
11- E400 XLBs
12- 41-50
14- any Central doubles
X15- Marine Genini 1 B9s
16- E400 XLBs
19- Marine b9s
20- Any LS singles
21- Genini 1 marine doubles
22- 441-465
23- any LS doubles
24- Central Singles and the odd double
25- Mix of Longstone and Marine doubles
26- 466-495
27- Central B9s, usually 11 plates
29- Ex Metroline B9s
30- LS singles usually 11-35
31- E400 XLBs
33- 401-425
34- 552-570
35- Longstone Gemini 1s
36- Longstone Singles
37- Central Doubles
38- Longstone B7RLEs
41- Central doubles
42- Marine singles
44- Mix of Central & longstone doubles
45- Marine singles
47- Centrsl Gemini
48- Marine singles
49- Marine doubles
 
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How many of Lothian's fleet have a full-colour destination display on the front (and/or rear)? Why is the colour capability not used more often?
 

SpeedbirdA350

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How many of Lothian's fleet have a full-colour destination display on the front (and/or rear)? Why is the colour capability not used more often?
White is easier to see for those with a visual impairment, and those with colourblindness and it is also the reason why Lothian have the number of the service nearest the kerbside, often larger. Red N is used for night services sometimes however but I rarely see a nightbus so not sure if this is all the time or just those I seen.
 

OmniCity999

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How many of Lothian's fleet have a full-colour destination display on the front (and/or rear)? Why is the colour capability not used more often?

There are very few buses in the fleet left with LED colour destinations. These specified by previous management (Ian Craig) and were delivered as such as an alternative to roller blinds but still being able to display traditional Part Routes, Limited Stops, Expresses, Rugby Special etc.

Those fitted with it from new were:

1-50
201-215
350-400 (rear /side only)
401-437
551-570
846 (trial mid life)
937-960 (rear /side only)

Under new management now - the preference is clarity & quality / ease of maintenance. The all white units are just that, the LEDs themselves are powerful white LED's. This is the Hannover product. Whereas the previous type was made up by mixing Red, Green and Blue to make white. This led to certain colours 'dying' and causing some screens to show as pink or blue - making a low quality screen. This is the Mobitech product.

The plan is to have the entire fleet under one screen type to allow greater efficiency and cross fleet similarity. Meaning every single bus (eventually) will have every screen file installed, every bus can display the same screen if need be.

1-50/201-215/401-425/551-570 were all delivered with Mobitech tri colour screens and have since (or will soon) had their tri colours replaced with Mobitech all white units - these units are the closest to Hannover screens that could be sourced, without buying Hannover, ripping out Mobitech cabling and brackets etc. Mobitechs have a squarer font - it's the Mobitech font. This conversion is cheaper but still as effective.

Every new delivery or roller blind - LED conversion is a Hannover product, we're ripping out the roller cabling anyway, we may aswell add in whatever screen we want. Hannover screens have the ability to easily show other font types - the one that has been chosen is the closest to the Lothian roller blind font.
 

Mal

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Every new delivery or roller blind - LED conversion is a Hannover product, we're ripping out the roller cabling anyway, we may as well add in whatever screen we want. Hannover screens have the ability to easily show other font types - the one that has been chosen is the closest to the Lothian roller blind font.

Do you know what happens top the Roller Blind mechanisms when they are removed from the buses? I have written to Lothian asking this, but have not had a reply as I would be interested in acquiring one ( with or without blinds).
On a side issue though, I mourn the demise of roller blinds and think the LED screens are very clear and bright. However, could they not be re-arranged so that they show scrolling intermediate points as well? It looks as if there would be enough room to do it.
 

Auld reekie

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Does anyone know the reason why the No44 are mostly 55 plates but occasionally are spoiled by getting a 66/67 plate?
I’m not complaining but just curious.
 

A330Alex

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Do you know what happens top the Roller Blind mechanisms when they are removed from the buses? I have written to Lothian asking this, but have not had a reply as I would be interested in acquiring one ( with or without blinds).
On a side issue though, I mourn the demise of roller blinds and think the LED screens are very clear and bright. However, could they not be re-arranged so that they show scrolling intermediate points as well? It looks as if there would be enough room to do it.
They show intermediate points on the LCB fleet using the same displays so I’d imagine it’s very much a deliberate choice not to do so.
 

Tom B

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I do think that the LEDs should really have a subtext for "part route" "express" etc - I don't know if the specific units that are used support it, but others seem to, even if it were only in white.

I recall when I was a regular user of Lothian at awful hours of the morning, the floors were all clean and tidy. They do take much more care of their fleet than e.g. Firstbus.
 

Tom B

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Aah - just missed omnicitys post regarding the screens.

Down south, a trial LED vehicle is in use in London on a new bus at PB. It is much higher resolution and allows the traditional London font to be used.
 

OmniCity999

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Do you know what happens top the Roller Blind mechanisms when they are removed from the buses? I have written to Lothian asking this, but have not had a reply as I would be interested in acquiring one ( with or without blinds).
On a side issue though, I mourn the demise of roller blinds and think the LED screens are very clear and bright. However, could they not be re-arranged so that they show scrolling intermediate points as well? It looks as if there would be enough room to do it.

Most go in the skip. It's not worth it for the company to sell them on or pass them out to enthusiasts. The company want to cover themselves, if theres then an issue with it. It's such a non issue for the company so just remove the pointless issue before it happens.

If you're that interested, maybe visit Moffat & Williamson very quickly and get the kit from them, including blinds. They've just bought four buses from us, straight from service. Hence the lack of yellow lines.

Scrolling intermediates clutter the screen and as such are not used throughout the fleet. Lothian Country currently use them as they make a name for themselves, some routes may be different to what potential patrons may be used to. It's best to give as much information as possible to get their name out there. Eventually, these will be removed as they are considered to cause clutter. It's also not a decent font size and cant be deciphered from far away, so the best option, which has been decided upon was to just have the end destination showing.

Experiments with different screen fonts and layouts have taken place for things like route diversions, rugby special and express, but it was decided not to use them. The layout for express was a personal favourite of mine.

Does anyone know if the inside of the buses get their floors mopped overnight?

Mopped nightly and windows washed, among other things. Of course if a vehicle has just come from night duties it may not be in the best condition, some night duties run into early morning duties, before being removed for cleaning.

Aah - just missed omnicitys post regarding the screens.

Down south, a trial LED vehicle is in use in London on a new bus at PB. It is much higher resolution and allows the traditional London font to be used.

175 (i think) has a trial unit in it. It looks like roller blinds, but its not. It can even be set up to scroll. Cant see this being adopted as most members of the fleet are now holders of the Hannover unit. It also opens the door for more issues such as colours dying, although displaying white, they are not white LED clusters, which is what we're trying to prevent.
 
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