swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,423
Seems unusually late to be consulting surely, as we get near to T-12?
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
December 2019 Timetable Change
- Thread starter Starmill
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
At least they are giving visibility unlike its sister operator GTR although after there significant railplan 2020 consultation going off the rails from day 1 they probably just like to keep below the radar
I think the word 'briefing' is better suited.
Considering what is publically available at the moment via Open Data being what NR has offered them, and generally is what they asked for (just guessing) why would they need to 'consult' on the changes which have already been made?
I know they can attempt to amend thier LTP timetable - but surely not on the scale that would berequired given a negative response to the consultation.
It's also getting very close to such a time when they would need to be done at STP timescales. What with T-18 having been last Friday and T-14 being 13th September.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,423
That’s basically what I thought. They’re offering a “consultation” where if there are any serious concerns they can’t easily be addressed at all. It’s pretty weird, would be useful to see the view of one of our train planning members...
To be purely flippant... they can be address in the May 2020 timetable (which has already passed D40 (9/8/2019) but at this point in time, again, it's a little too late to be thinking about undoing what has already, effectively, been done.
They have the ability to amend the entire timtable, each week, at STP timescales - but the work involved, initially would be tremendous. Once the 'amended plan' has been prepared and then validated by NR, it's a fairly easy job to copy paste for future weeks (still requiring NR validation though), so they won't like it -but would have to deal with it.
I would have thought that by now, Dec 19 work is dead and buried at NR, with shift of focus to May 2020 PDNS (Priority Date Notification was the 9th August) validation. It's really only diagram and minor variations on a periodic basis which will be happening at LTP level, fairly shortly, and the Dispute resolution process for the Dec 19 timetable taking place.
To be purely flippant... they can be address in the May 2020 timetable (which has already passed D40 (9/8/2019) but at this point in time, again, it's a little too late to be thinking about undoing what has already, effectively, been done.
They have the ability to amend the entire timtable, each week, at STP timescales - but the work involved, initially would be tremendous. Once the 'amended plan' has been prepared and then validated by NR, it's a fairly easy job to copy paste for future weeks (still requiring NR validation though), so they won't like it -but would have to deal with it.
I would have thought that by now, Dec 19 work is dead and buried at NR, with shift of focus to May 2020 PDNS (Priority Date Notification was the 9th August) validation. It's really only diagram and minor variations on a periodic basis which will be happening at LTP level, fairly shortly, and the Dispute resolution process for the Dec 19 timetable taking place.
What is D40?
The Planner
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 15 Apr 2008
- Messages
- 15,953
The point at which operators have to tell NR what they want to run in the next timetable. 40 weeks prior to it starting.
Has there ever been any kind of expectation or commitment made by SE/DfT to them being re-instated?
I see that the most of the CrossCountry departures from Bristol TM to the North East have been pushed back a few minutes so they depart at roughly 32-35 minutes past the hour rather than at half past, which is what is currently the case. They still arrive into New Street at the same time as now, though. The departures to Manchester are still on the hour. Does anyone have any idea why this is?
sufian123
Member
north east trains are taking advantage of Derby new signals and infrastructure. Bristol to Manchester nothing new happened.
I don't think that's what explains this change, as the differences are south of Birmingham (same arrival time into New Street from Bristol). Plus, it looks as though the Plymouth-Edinburgh trains don't see any real change in the Derby area, unlike some of the Reading-Newcastle services as mentioned upthread.
brad465
Established Member
I imagine they won't be reinstated while Thameslink still have 2tph going to Orpington (albeit via Catford), given the bay platforms there presumably couldn't cope. Also turning 2tph earlier than before I imagine reduces demand on rolling stock, of which there is a shortage on the SE Network from what is ideal. That said I have wondered whether turning 2tph around at Bromley South is a good idea; while I personally haven't seen any issues, the act of blocking a through line can be disruptive on a bad day.
sufian123
Member
long distance from Plymouth departing at xx27 instead of xx25. Also From new st is now xx12 past everyday. Journey times have improved I’m guessing.
Mitchell Hurd
On Moderation
- Joined
- 28 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 1,647
So XC services from the South West to Scotland arrive at Birmingham New Street at around xx:55 and have a dwell time of around 15 minutes til xx:12 if I'm reading this correctly?
I did have concerns about this as it means diesel trains sitting in Birmingham New Street for at least around 15 minutes (longer if delayed). However, it's handy for HST services for 2 reasons: 1, MTU power cars at either end and 2. More time to get people on!
Birmingham to Scotland XC services leaving at xx:12 mean if I catch a Newcastle service from Oxford with an Advance Single I have almost 55 minutes - hugely welcome
!Does this mean that the calling patterns on the leg to and from Birmingham New Street and Derby are altered?
sufian123
Member
no. Same time departure from derby. It’s arriving same time as today. xx05 past and depart at xx12 last instead of xx17.
So XC services from the South West to Scotland arrive at Birmingham New Street at around xx:55 and have a dwell time of around 15 minutes til xx:12 if I'm reading this correctly?
I did have concerns about this as it means diesel trains sitting in Birmingham New Street for at least around 15 minutes (longer if delayed). However, it's handy for HST services for 2 reasons: 1, MTU power cars at either end and 2. More time to get people on!
Birmingham to Scotland XC services leaving at xx:12 mean if I catch a Newcastle service from Oxford with an Advance Single I have almost 55 minutes - hugely welcome
Does this mean that the calling patterns on the leg to and from Birmingham New Street and Derby are altered?
I think there's been some confusion here - xx:12 is the departure of *southbound* services from New St.
Northbound XC services from Plymouth to Edinburgh will depart Plymouth at xx:27 (currently xx:25), and depart Bristol Temple Meads at xx:35 (currently xx:30), but maintain current arrival and departure times from Birmingham New Street, arriving xx:56 and departing at xx:03.
Southbound XC services from Edinburgh to Plymouth currently have varying departure times from Birmingham New St: some depart at xx:17 (WTT xx:20) and some depart at xx:12. From December all of these will move to xx:12. The changes to GWR services permit the XC to arrive in Bristol Temple Meads at xx:32, instead of the current xx:41; however, the present xx:45 departure is maintained, so these now have a long dwell at Bristol Temple Meads rather than Birmingham New St.
As far as I know the only changes on CrossCountry north of Birmingham are to allow the xx:30 from Birmingham to Newcastle to depart at xx:28 in some hours and have a much faster run to Newcastle.
Mitchell Hurd
On Moderation
- Joined
- 28 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 1,647
Right, thanks for clarifying . 7 minutes is still long enough though for South West to Scotland services at Birmingham New Street though!
. 7 minutes is still long enough though for South West to Scotland services at Birmingham New Street though!sufian123
Member
thanks.
DaveHarries
Established Member
Just been looking again at the Exeter St. Davids - Salisbury - London Waterloo services and it seems that, come 16th December, the evening service has been slightly redrawn:
Current:
1L76 1925 Exeter St. Davids - London Waterloo
1L80 2025 Exeter St. Davids - London Waterloo
1L84 2125 Exeter St. Davids - Salisbury
1L88 2300 Exeter St. Davids - Salisbury
From 16th December:
1L76 1925 Exeter St. Davids - London Waterloo
1L80 2025 Exeter St. Davids - London Waterloo
1L84 2125 Exeter St. Davids - Salisbury
1L88 2225 Exeter St. Davids - Salisbury
1L92 2327 Exeter St. Davids - Yeovil Junction
1L92 shows on OpenTrainTimes as calling all stations between Exeter Central and Yeovil Junction (except St. James Park) but only calls to set down after Exeter Central. Good idea of SWR to provide an almost hourly evening service on the route by retiming 1L88 and adding 1L92.
Dave
Current:
1L76 1925 Exeter St. Davids - London Waterloo
1L80 2025 Exeter St. Davids - London Waterloo
1L84 2125 Exeter St. Davids - Salisbury
1L88 2300 Exeter St. Davids - Salisbury
From 16th December:
1L76 1925 Exeter St. Davids - London Waterloo
1L80 2025 Exeter St. Davids - London Waterloo
1L84 2125 Exeter St. Davids - Salisbury
1L88 2225 Exeter St. Davids - Salisbury
1L92 2327 Exeter St. Davids - Yeovil Junction
1L92 shows on OpenTrainTimes as calling all stations between Exeter Central and Yeovil Junction (except St. James Park) but only calls to set down after Exeter Central. Good idea of SWR to provide an almost hourly evening service on the route by retiming 1L88 and adding 1L92.
Dave
VT 390
Established Member
- Joined
- 7 Dec 2018
- Messages
- 1,366
These changes don't look so good if you are travelling past Yeovil Junction on the current 23:00 as you will have to leave Exeter 35 minutes earlier.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,423
I think the last train listed there stables at Yeovil Jn down sidings from the Dec timetable change, there’s a small crew depot starting up, (or might have already started), and a couple of units will stable there and be positioned for the start of service next day.
Kite159
Veteran Member
The current 23:00 runs nonstop after Yeovil so the number of passengers affected will most likely be minimal.
Although seems the new 22:25 Exeter - Salisbury also runs nonstop after Yeovil
dk1
Veteran Member
I would imagine the train runs almost empty after Yeovil & this is all about a better local service from Exeter. 22:25 for a last train from their to Salisbury seems more than fair.
DaveHarries
Established Member
On the Fishguard Harbour front:
Mondays to Saturdays:
- 1B67 (1442 Gloucester to Fishguard Harbour, arr. 1857) is dropped between Gloucester and Cardiff Central: new working 2G67 (1442 Gloucester - Cardiff Central).
- 1V64 (1931 Manchester Piccadilly to Fishguard Harbour, arr. 0232) will now terminate at Cardiff Central at 2307.
- New Working: 1B99 (2315 Cardiff Central to Fishguard Harbour, arr. 0232) in place of 1V64. Formed of a unit working ECS (5B99) from Canton. Curiously 2E36 (0237 Fishguard Harbour - Carmarthen) continues to operate although I wouldn't have thought there would be any need for 1B99 beyond Carmarthen in the first place as the overnight Fishguard to Rosslare ferry departs Fishguard at 2345.
I have heard that TfW will start running Class 170s between Cheltenham Spa, Gloucester and Cardiff Central as of 16th December which may account for the loss of 1B67 between Gloucester and Cardiff.
HTIOI,
Dave
Mondays to Saturdays:
- 1B67 (1442 Gloucester to Fishguard Harbour, arr. 1857) is dropped between Gloucester and Cardiff Central: new working 2G67 (1442 Gloucester - Cardiff Central).
- 1V64 (1931 Manchester Piccadilly to Fishguard Harbour, arr. 0232) will now terminate at Cardiff Central at 2307.
- New Working: 1B99 (2315 Cardiff Central to Fishguard Harbour, arr. 0232) in place of 1V64. Formed of a unit working ECS (5B99) from Canton. Curiously 2E36 (0237 Fishguard Harbour - Carmarthen) continues to operate although I wouldn't have thought there would be any need for 1B99 beyond Carmarthen in the first place as the overnight Fishguard to Rosslare ferry departs Fishguard at 2345.
I have heard that TfW will start running Class 170s between Cheltenham Spa, Gloucester and Cardiff Central as of 16th December which may account for the loss of 1B67 between Gloucester and Cardiff.
HTIOI,
Dave
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
There is no need for the night train to Fishguard Harbour but had to be put back in last year as it was found that ATW (at the time) were in breach of the Franchise which was based on the old Ferry timings. Common sense loses out to bureaucracy.
Last edited:
HamworthyGoods
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Jan 2019
- Messages
- 3,935
So many instances of that across the national network when certain services which no longer serve the purpose or the purpose is no longer needed, but they still continue to run as are enshrined in service level comittments sometimes at detriment to something which could be more useful....
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Fishguard services were adjusted to accommodate revised Ferry services at fairly short notice but that left the specification which said trains to run between xx and xx hours open.
DaveHarries
Established Member
Just noticed this one. XC's 1C09 (0622 Plymouth - Penzance) retimed to depart Plymouth at 0600 but it will also take 1hr 55mins for the journey which is 8 minutes longer than at present. I guess this retiming is to do with the revised local stopping services.
Dave
Dave
- Status