Wrightbus enter administration

[winston270twm]

I've often wondered if Stagecoach in London were able to undercut TfL tenders by having access to a cheaper price for ADL products than other groups could get. Is this unfair competition?

Judging by the number of TfL tenders Stagecoach London had lost during their losing streak, no.....

 

[carlberry]

I've often wondered if Stagecoach in London were able to undercut TfL tenders by having access to a cheaper price for ADL products than other groups could get. Is this unfair competition?

Stagecoach pulled out of London for many years and after they went back in I believe they said that they'd lease most stuff for London because of how changeable the requirements are.

 

[richw]

I recall you posted similar comments before on the common ownership between Stagecoach and ADL. It certainly makes a good narrative, but I don't think its entirely true.

Yes Stagecoach have favoured ADL in their orders, but this was the case long before any common ownership. Stagecoach had been buying products made by ADL's predecessors for ages - Alexander RL bodied Olympians, Alexander Sprint minibuses, Alexander PS bodied B10Ms, Dennis Trident ALX400s, Dennis Darts with both Plaxton Pointer and ALX200 bodies, ALX100 bodied Varios, Plaxton Premier 320s, etc, etc.
I
Stagecoach's orders in the years either side of the millennium were comprised nearly entirely of Transbus products (73 per cent for chassis and 93 per cent for bodywork). This was before any common ownership.

Rather than having concerns about the takeover it was welcomed by other operators. The greater concern of other operators wasn't around common ownership between ADL and Stagecoach, rather that another manufacturer might have bought Transbus and limited competition in the manufacturing sector.

When under common ownership Stagecoach placed healthy orders for non ADL products, see for example the large number of Scania chassied double deckers that Stagecoach took in preference to an all ADL product.

Also whist ADL and Stagecoach had common shareholders, Souter Investments weren't the only shareholder in ADL (they owned around half the company at time of sale) and the board would have been obliged to act on behalf of all shareholders. It makes no business sense for ADL to decrease its sales of buses just to favour Stagecoach - other ADL shareholders wouldn't have stood for it.

Sorry, but I think people are looking for a conspiracy theory here, where non exists.

They must be offering good service and pricing to other operators considering how many operators favour ADL products. There isn’t a conspiracy to be had.

 

[tbtc]

As I see it, there shouldn't be any problem with one company owning a bus manufacturer and a bus operator (and even less problem with one person's investments owning half of a manufacturer and also a share of a bus company) - what next - are we going to ban the Co-op from owning farms as it gives them access to cheaper food and is therefore unfair? I'm sure that the people who owned the other half of ADL wouldn't have let that nice Mr Souter use it to provide cost-price vehicles to Stagecoach (with no profit margin)!

Or do we just accept that ADL have upped their game - if they can offer a product that's so good that non-Stagecoach companies want to switch away from Wrights then that means ADL clearly offer a better product - I'm surprised at some of the conspiracy stuff on here but I guess it makes a nice story.

Wrights did well from the mid-90s onwards, they found their niche producing the first *good* low floor buses (whilst other companies struggled, e.g. the Super Pointer Dart idea of putting a midibus engine in a full length bus) - but nothing lasts forever - other companies were bound to fight back - a Wright vehicle felt like light years ahead of the competition in the 1990s but where's their Unique Selling Point in 2019?

So even if Wrights weren't spending huge sums on fundamentalist religious projects, they weren't guaranteed the market share they had. And that's without the general cutting of orders from the bigger companies across the board, the London decision to move away from the expensive "buy brand new buses every time a contract changes hands" policy... there's a smaller "pie" out there, so tougher and tougher to fight for your market.

There's also the question of "using huge donations to your Church to make your business insolvent, thus making it easy to go into administration and find a Phoenix company willing to buy the assets for a quid whilst dumping all of those awkward pension liabilities upon the taxpayer-funded Pension Protection Fund"... I'm never sure which businesses are "unprofitable" nowadays and which are just "unprofitable on paper" (i.e. carefully divert money to holding companies/ charities to ensure that they don't show any profit on paper, so they don't have to pay any tax). Allegedly etc etc...

 

[Jordan Adam]

I don't even think it's up to debate that the reason ADL are selling so well is because their products are quite simply 'superior' and perfectly fit the market needs. Their customer care is excellent, vehicles are reliable and spare parts are easy to get. All areas Wright have lacked in.

 

[Mwanesh]

You might think that, but not really if you think about it.

Do you really think that if ADL have a new product or innovation or something, that Stagecoach find out about this at the same time as every other single bus operator, or do you think that they have forward notice and the whole product is designed around their needs.

The end result is the other builders are playing catch-up and also have to compete on the open market as they have no slam dunk orders that ADL have because they don't have any affiliated bus companies that will ensure that it is bought in numbers no matter what. ADL have a guaranteed volume from a customer that is always going to stay loyal in Stagecoach.

Then there's the fact if First are buying from Volvo lets say, Volvo are going to want a certain margin as they have no connection in First. If Stagecoach are buying from ADL for example, the margin is not as important to the shareholders because at the end of the day a lot of the Shareholders are the same. The success of ADL helps Stagecoach and the success of Stagecoach helps ADL .

The simple fact is that ADL could be working on a vehicle for 18 months before it's revealed in public, but Stagecoach could already knew about it for most of it's development but kept quiet. Stagecoach take the fist examples and then Wright/Volvo see them hit the road and thinks, crap we better respond. But they then have to design a new product to rival the new ADL Product which will take 12-18 months to design unless it's rushed out.

In that time the bus operators see that the new ADL product is rather good and cheaper to run then the Volvo/Wright product and they have a choice

a) Keep buying the old Volvo/Wright product and wait 12-18 months for Volvo/Wright to respond and see Stagecoach grow profits/passengers on the back of their new ADL product whilst you don't.
b) Buy the ADL product and line the pockets of ADL and Stagecoach, probably at a higher price than they charged Stagecoach themselves.

Many of the companies went for B. I know a few smaller operators who always bought Wright/Volvo but they went for ADL since stacked up to a Gemini 2, the ADL won on cost and fuel burn since Wright/Volvo were still playing catch up and working on the Gemini 3. They were fearful of being undercut on cost so reluctantly went down the ADL road.

The Office of Fair Trading did suggest that the ownership commonalities between ADL and Stagecoach could distort the bus market and they really should have blocked it. This isn't just my view, I know many people in the industry outside of Stagecoach and ADL that believe the combination of the two has generally been terrible for competition in the sector.

If you look at the choice of suppliers of vehicles now, and what it was 15 years ago, it'll tell its own story.



The key difference there was when the company was took out of administration by tSouter and co was they got a huge flurry of orders every year from Stagecoach. WIthout that the tale would be very different indeed.

The Stagecoach and ADL links only came about after Transbus collapsed. Mr Souter stepped in for the simple reason that they were his bus and coach supplier. If you look at the Stagecoach orders over the years they have never bought ADL products for the entire order. Are you saying for example Go Ahead or First try to buy Wrights they should be blocked because they own a bus company. Arriva own Arriva Bus and Coach sales they just treat all the customers the same. The Megabus Van Hools came via Arriva Bus & Coach.

 

[Observer]

At the end of the day their move to integral products and refusal to take certain orders is what put them in the mess.

StreetLites are terrible and the less said about the StreetDeck the better. They should have stuck with Volvo products as the main stay.

The fact that First rejected a batch of those horrid deckers should tell you everything, even if Rotala picked them up in the end.

ADL managed to turn things around, the same couldn't be said for Wrightbus.

 

[LOL The Irony]

ADL managed to turn things around, the same couldn't be said for Wrightbus

Wright had nothing to turn around, only go backwards, which they did.

 

[Robertj21a]

As I see it, there shouldn't be any problem with one company owning a bus manufacturer and a bus operator (and even less problem with one person's investments owning half of a manufacturer and also a share of a bus company) - what next - are we going to ban the Co-op from owning farms as it gives them access to cheaper food and is therefore unfair? I'm sure that the people who owned the other half of ADL wouldn't have let that nice Mr Souter use it to provide cost-price vehicles to Stagecoach (with no profit margin)!

Or do we just accept that ADL have upped their game - if they can offer a product that's so good that non-Stagecoach companies want to switch away from Wrights then that means ADL clearly offer a better product - I'm surprised at some of the conspiracy stuff on here but I guess it makes a nice story.

Wrights did well from the mid-90s onwards, they found their niche producing the first *good* low floor buses (whilst other companies struggled, e.g. the Super Pointer Dart idea of putting a midibus engine in a full length bus) - but nothing lasts forever - other companies were bound to fight back - a Wright vehicle felt like light years ahead of the competition in the 1990s but where's their Unique Selling Point in 2019?

So even if Wrights weren't spending huge sums on fundamentalist religious projects, they weren't guaranteed the market share they had. And that's without the general cutting of orders from the bigger companies across the board, the London decision to move away from the expensive "buy brand new buses every time a contract changes hands" policy... there's a smaller "pie" out there, so tougher and tougher to fight for your market.

There's also the question of "using huge donations to your Church to make your business insolvent, thus making it easy to go into administration and find a Phoenix company willing to buy the assets for a quid whilst dumping all of those awkward pension liabilities upon the taxpayer-funded Pension Protection Fund"... I'm never sure which businesses are "unprofitable" nowadays and which are just "unprofitable on paper" (i.e. carefully divert money to holding companies/ charities to ensure that they don't show any profit on paper, so they don't have to pay any tax). Allegedly etc etc...

An excellent summary, thank you.

 

[Man of Kent]

The licence for Alusuisse expired in 1996. Wrights then developed their own system.

If the date on this article is correct someone forgot to tell the MD
http://www.transportengineer.org.uk/transport-engineer-features/material-differences/141639

Taken from the book "The Wright Way", a book essentially commissioned by the company.

 

[Goldfish62]

Stagecoach pulled out of London for many years and after they went back in I believe they said that they'd lease most stuff for London because of how changeable the requirements are.

That's correct. They don't want to be landed with heavily non standard buses at the end of a five year contract. This is despite leasing being more expensive than buying.

 

[Goldfish62]

Judging by the number of TfL tenders Stagecoach London had lost during their losing streak, no.....

Exactly.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

At the end of the day their move to integral products and refusal to take certain orders is what put them in the mess.

StreetLites are terrible and the less said about the StreetDeck the better. They should have stuck with Volvo products as the main stay.

The fact that First rejected a batch of those horrid deckers should tell you everything, even if Rotala picked them up in the end.

ADL managed to turn things around, the same couldn't be said for Wrightbus.

I'll be honest, I didn't think there was something quite right when First started buying Streetlites for some of their single-decker orders instead of carrying on with Volvo / Wright Eclipse.

This sounds strange but I much prefer a Volvo B7RLE thats older than a Wright Streetlite - front seats especially.

Off topic this paragraph yes, but it's like with Stagecoach - I much prefer an MAN E300 than a newer E200!

 

[winston270twm]

I'll be honest, I didn't think there was something quite right when First started buying Streetlites for some of their single-decker orders instead of carrying on with Volvo / Wright Eclipse.

This sounds strange but I much prefer a Volvo B7RLE thats older than a Wright Streetlite - front seats especially.

Volvo B7RLE/Wright Eclipse are heavy duty single deckers, there has been a notable shift in operators requiring light weight buses for improved fuel economy, no longer just with midibuses, but across the board, that was partly driven by First Group. That's why Wrightbus developed the Streetlite & re-designed the Gemini 2 to the Gemini 3 i.e. to reduce gross vehicle weight. Same with ADL re-engineering the E400 & E200 to MMC's.

In my opinion Wrightbus have screwed up by focusing too much on integrals that are inferior / not the most reliable & build quality seems to be a reoccurring issue. Streetlites seem to be plagued by electrical issues / Streedecks have been quoted as underpowered for some more challenging routes etc. Despite early success with Streetlites / Streetdeck orders, you will notice that orders for Streetlites have now fallen off a cliff, and with First Group now cancelling 55 x Streetdecks during build (some fully complete awaiting delivery) that also speaks volumes. Additionally, no further Borismasters have been ordered after a change in London Mayor and buying policy. Many of the regular Wrightbus customers for Streetlites have switched to buying ADL E200MMC's, similar is now happening with some Streetdeck customers. Wrightbus seem to have lost the build quality they were always renowned for, plus the latest Gemini 3 styling isn't to every operators taste. Ultimately, the latest offerings aren't a patch on earlier Eclipse & Gemini bodywork, or Renown / Liberator / Endurance single decker bodies before those. That is what I believe is the cause of Wrightbus downfall.

I think they should have provided more choice of chassis/body combinations including Scania DD's (Scania seem to be growing in popularity again for double deckers) & they've also lost a lot of ground to MCV with London double deck orders & for the few Volvo B8RLE that are now selling. Also First Group woes will not of helped as they were a big Wrightbus customer, although First Group aren't ordering the quantities they used to, they are still ordering but a larger proportion of the orders have gone elsewhere.

The Facebook post below from an ex Wrightbus employee sums it all up perfectly where it all went wrong:

Next Level Social Media Management Limited
25 September at 11:48 ·
The last day for Ballymena’s Wrightbus, 73 years in business, it's time for some home truths.

First things first, I do sympathise with every single employee; it's most definitely a stressful time not only for the workforce but their families too. This includes all stakeholders; especially the suppliers who have also been left in debt because of unpaid bills. Hopefully the government redundancy package will be enough to see most in to further employment.

I worked for 'The Wright Group' for seven years, from 2011 to 2018 in four different job roles. I've made some good friends there, friends for life. I've also watched it turn from a workplace that people loved to one of utter hatred. I watched true coachbuilding tradesmen with 30+ year Wrightbus careers walk away mentally beaten and defeated.
Perhaps you may have seen various media articles over the last year stating opinions like; "It was facing some very difficult conditions in its domestic market, with current orders for new vehicles at relatively low levels" and "We understand that the job losses are the result of the loss of sales to Transport for London in addition to the protracted delay in new orders coming in from Translink." Yet, no mention of some very weak links in the senior ‘management’ team failing to make obvious and important strategic business decisions? To be clear; I am not indicating that all of the senior management team are uneducated, inexperienced and in their positions because their face fits. Some, are truly excellent at what they do and it was a pleasure talking to and working with them on occasion. However, some other members of the senior 'management' team are the sole reason for the companies collapse.

What these members created was the most unpleasant and dysfunctional workplace. A workplace that people hated, one they didn't care about. It was a ticking time bomb. Nobody cared about their workmanship. The quality deteriorated. Customers complained. Orders slowed. Some senior 'management' blamed the workforce (I was actually in the audience of that group announcement). The quality deteriorated some more and eventually the orders stopped coming in.

For 3 years, I had the pleasure of working very closely with the founders son, Sir William Wright in the development area. Bearing in mind whilst I was there, Sir William was aged from 89 to 91; He was and still is a true business mastermind. Every single working day, twice a day, he came in to the workshop to check on things. He taught me so much and he always had time for questions. There were no back doors, he said it how it was and most people respected that. Unfortunately, I also witnessed him getting pushed out of a position of control by the same members of the senior 'management' team. One of the only lifelines the business had, pushed out of the picture because of certain disagreements on how things should be run. He wasn't the only family member who was pushed out of the company.

It was Autumn 2017, a group of fellow managers and I getting sent on a 8 week, one day a week, management training course. We were told on the first day that 'the company' had realised the problem of morale in the workplace and that it needed sorted from the bottom up! Of course we all didn't say anything but I can guarantee we were all thinking the exact same thing; The opposite.

I witnessed management/employee HR meetings with the outcome decided BEFORE the meeting was even sat.

I witnessed people getting pre-selected for jobs BEFORE any recruitment processes.

I witnessed people getting recruited and promotions for jobs because they knew them or they were friends with the right people regardless of capability and experience, even in to senior positions with huge responsibility.

Over the last 6 years Wrightbus alone has gave away over £15m in Christian charity donations. Proof via Companies House. This is not including any other of ‘The Cornerstone Groups’ TEN subsidiary companies. In their most recent accounts (2017) showed that it donated £4.1m to Christian and charitable causes; in the same year it posted a turnover of £227.2m but a loss of £1.7m? For the last 5 years the staff were told there would be no inflation pay rises for ANY staff because the business wasn't performing well? Citing poor demand for buses yet their main UK competitor are and were going from strength to strength? Where was the money going? I'd be keen to read through the 2018/19 accounts if they ever get released. It's maybe just as well they haven't.

No one outside of my close family knows this, but its time to close the chapter and start fresh. The last 18 months of my career working for Wrightbus was the easily the worst period of my life. I didn't want to get out of bed, I didn't want to go out, the Galgorm prison was honestly the last place I wanted to be. I had bills to pay, a roof to keep over my, now wife's head. I had no choice, I had to do it. I got diagnosed with work related depression. Fast forward another 12 months and I've only just came off them.

Was the administration of Wrightbus both predictable and avoidable? Absolutely. There were so many opportunities to recover the situation, the latest even being this morning. When, yet again, the selfishness won through in regards to the price and status of the old JTI site.

The same selfishness that came before any remaining dignity. A case of pure greed but before the livelihoods of 1400 innocent people.

I do hope that the business is picked up by true business leaders post administration. It has so much potential and the workforce deserve to be reinstated. Their situation has been forced upon them via others greed and self destruction. There will be a lot of questions going unanswered. It would certainly make a great Spotlight program.

What Wrightbus unknowingly taught me was how NOT to run a company, lessons that’ll stick by me forever. I channelled the anger and frustration in to the motivation to follow my dreams. For that, I’ll be thankful.

Leaving Wrightbus was one of the best decisions of my life. The morale, the working environment, the lack of self-belief; It's not normal. Please see the closure of Wrightbus as a new chapter of your life and grasp it with both hands. It might not seem like it right now but it’s the best thing that could've happened to you. Trust me.

If you want to grasp this opportunity to start your own business, there are some good, council led 'new business' funding and support initiatives running at the minute. Send the page a message and I will personally make sure that you've got all the support you need.

https://www.facebook.com/587432885016439/posts/697578454001881?sfns=mo

 

[Journeyman]

Why does everyone hate Streetlites so much? I use them regularly and find them pretty good to travel on.

 

[Speedbird96]

I'll be honest, I didn't think there was something quite right when First started buying Streetlites for some of their single-decker orders instead of carrying on with Volvo / Wright Eclipse.

This sounds strange but I much prefer a Volvo B7RLE thats older than a Wright Streetlite - front seats especially.

Whilst I agree Wright Eclipses are far superior to StreetLites; a precedent was set when major bus operators around 2013, not just First Group began ordering low-weight single decks like StreetLites and even long wheel-base Enviro200s. For First Group, ordering the StreetLites made perfect sense as they could deliver the same amount of capacity as their Wright Eclipses but with the benefit of lowering their overall running costs in operating such single decks.

Whilst Wrightbus did try to reduce the weight of Wright Eclipses when the B7RLEs were nearing the end of production, they were slowly becoming uncompetitive with what Alexander Dennis and, dare I say even Scania were offering.

I much prefer an MAN E300 than a newer E200!

I'd take an Enviro200 and an Enviro200MMC over an MAN chassis Enviro300 any day! The MAN Enviro300s have a notorious reputation for being underpowered, noisy and unreliable, says something that Stagecoach have re-engined them with Cummins ISBe engines, whilst even 10/11 year old examples have since been withdrawn from service altogether!

Volvo B7RLE/Wright Eclipse are heavy duty single deckers, there has been a notable shift in operators requiring light weight buses for improved fuel economy, no longer just with midibuses, but across the board, that was partly driven by First Group. That's why Wrightbus developed the Streetlite & re-designed the Gemini 2 to the Gemini 3 i.e. to reduce gross vehicle weight. Same with ADL re-engineering the E400 & E200 to MMC's.

In my opinion Wrightbus have screwed up by focusing too much on integrals that are inferior / not the most reliable & build quality seems to be a reoccurring issue. Streetlites seem to be plagued by electrical issues / Streedecks have been quoted as underpowered for some more challenging routes etc. Despite early success with Streetlites / Streetdeck orders, you will notice that orders for Streetlites have now fallen off a cliff, and with First Group now cancelling 55 x Streetdecks during build (some fully complete awaiting delivery) that also speaks volumes. Additionally, no further Borismasters have been ordered after a change in London Mayor and buying policy. Many of the regular Wrightbus customers for Streetlites have switched to buying ADL E200MMC's, similar is now happening with some Streetdeck customers. Wrightbus seem to have lost the build quality they were always renowned for, plus the latest Gemini 3 styling isn't to every operators taste. Ultimately, the latest offerings aren't a patch on earlier Eclipse & Gemini bodywork, or Renown / Liberator / Endurance single decker bodies before those. That is what I believe is the cause of Wrightbus downfall.

I think they should have provided more choice of chassis/body combinations including Scania DD's (Scania seem to be growing in popularity again for double deckers) & they've also lost a lot of ground to MCV with London double deck orders & for the few Volvo B8RLE that are now selling. Also First Group woes will not of helped as they were a big Wrightbus customer, although First Group aren't ordering the quantities they used to, they are still ordering but a larger proportion of the orders have gone elsewhere.

The Facebook post below from an ex Wrightbus employee sums it all up perfectly where it all went wrong:


https://www.facebook.com/587432885016439/posts/697578454001881?sfns=mo

Agree entirely with this, Wright had to act when lighter weight single decks were slowly picking up traction... When you look at London, the portion of orders for single decks were and still are Enviro200/Enviro200MMCs. Wright was largely lacking in this aspect, and even with the StreetLite making inroads, Alexander Dennis still command a large portion of orders.

It is pretty telling that big Wright customers like Lothian Buses, First, Wellglade Group amongst others have shifted towards Alexander Dennis in recent years for their recent orders. Build quality is not good as it once was, definitely seen a shift when Gemini 3s and StreetDecks began arriving en massé.

Believe it or not, Wright did try to mate a Scania N94UD chassis to the Gemini, but ultimately was not successful owing to the complexity and Wright would have had to rebuild the Gemini bodywork in order for the chassis to fit. East Lancs was more successful in their efforts and picked up orders, even from First and Stagecoach. Of course, Wright was initially successful with their Solar bodied Scania L94UBs, but orders definitely dropped when fitted with Scania's K230UB chassis to meet Euro 4/5 legislation, operators opting for OmniLinks and Enviro300s instead. I don't necessarily believe that working with Scania would have helped Wright as they now have an established partnership with Alexander Dennis already and they opted to no longer provide their own bodywork for the UK market.

The Facebook post is certainly indicative of the systemic problems within Wrightbus, and definitely didn't get their priorities right.

Shame really, as I have always liked Wright's products; with the Geminis, Eclipses, Pulsars and Solars... The Gemini 3, StreetDeck and StreetLites showed where their priorities began to shift. Going with Daimler engines for their integrals was probably not the wisest decision either given their so-so reputation.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Why does everyone hate Streetlites so much? I use them regularly and find them pretty good to travel on.

• They're slow.
• Unreliable.
• Have jerky gearboxes.
• Harsh brakes.
• Poor top speed.
• Poor turning circle.
• Heating is often stuck on full.
• Front/rear destination access panels do not shut properly meaning they rattle like mad.
• Design of the windscreen means a full size blind cannot fit in the front.
• Steering is very heavy.
• It's difficult to tell if the hand brake is or isn't applied.
• Front platform and loading area is narrow making it difficult for wheelchair users to get on.
• Cab door rattles very badly.
• Panel to the main door motor is flimsy.
• Heat vents are on the roof (heat rises), so are useless in the winter.
• Material used on the cab back feels and looks like polystyrene.
• Centre positioned lights mean you get lots of glare and can't turn one side off to reduce glare.
• Design of the emergency exit is lousy, and it rattles very badly,
• Poorly positioned grab rails around the front with far too many bell pushes.
• Poor leg room at most seats.
• Very steep steps to the rear.
• Air Compressor is far too loud and makes the whole rear of the vehicle shake.
• Certain Max examples already suffer chassis corrosion.
• Engine bay protrudes in to the passenger saloon compromising leg room at the rear even more. Additionally it's easy to burn your legs if you're not careful.
• Glazing at the rear of the bus is very shallow and doesn't go right up to the rear, meaning the rear rows of seats can be rather claustrophobic as the design doesn't let in might light.
• Suspension is rubbish and seems to create bumps in the road that don't exist.
• They sit too low to the ground so sometimes ground out causing damage to the underside of the bus.
• Cab has too many overhead buttons.
• LED interior lights are far too bright.
• Interior light housing doesn't fit properly.
• The automated interior lights system is unreliable and will often turn the lights off randomly at night.
• Not enough opening hopper windows and they often slam shut over bumps.
• They have a tendency to gulp and run out of coolant.
• Coolant pipes often burst.
• Wheels are too small causing poor ride and a poor turning circle.
• Rear window is far too high and pretty useless.
• Water leaks in where the fibreglass front/rear moulds meet with the roof. Some operators have got around this by fitting tape over the join.
• Luggage rack is far too small with more space lost due to the position of the fire extinguisher.
• Items do not stay in the luggage racks as the bars are too low.
• Ticket bin is hinged from the bottom and often falls off over bumps emptying the contents.
• Poor MPG.
• Lack of padding in the seats behind the cab and on the last row.
• Seats behind the cab fall off their mountings quite easily so have to be 'bodged' back in place.
• Grab rails rattle on idle.
• Bell pushes often don't work first time.
• External engine noise is extreme and when Streetlites are on my route they often vibrate the house. I don't get this with any other bus type.
• The rubber seal around the emergency exit door leaks.
• At low speeds the gearbox jumps between neutral and drive.
• When drive is engaged the bus lurches forward.
• If you're cruising at around 20 MPH and apply the brakes you often have to apply them harshly to get the vehicle to stop as it wants to continue moving forward.
• When changing gear the whole bus vibrates.
• It's near impossible to stop a Streetlite without giving all the passengers whiplash, often drivers will put the vehicle in to neutral when slowing down in order to stop the retarder kicking in.
• The side destination is bodged in.
• They make a very loud air release sound when slowing down, this wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the fact it's soo loud and regular.
• Air tanks seems to loose pressure easily.
• In colder weather the electronics like to freeze.
• Offside mirror arm is far too long.
• The seat moulding behind the cab is only attached at the bottom so rattles badly, there is also a really nasty blackout sticker behind the seat that collects dirt.
• Prone to wheel spinning due to harsh gear changes.
• Internal advert frames are at an odd angle and mean that adverts easily fall out.
• Lack of a glass screen next to the door means that when the doors are opened in the winter you get a bad draft around the front half of the bus.
• Air vents are only up once side of the bus.
• No roof air ventilation, this is something all previous Wright products had.
• Door buttons and flimsy and Wright are prone to fitting them the wrong way round.
• No grab rail over the window in the WC bay makes it unsafe for standees.
• General construction and use of materials on the interior is poor.
• Cab back doesn't fully extend to the roof.
• A wheelchair cannot board if a full size adult is sitting in the seats behind the cab.
• When going over cobbles you can see the body of the bus bending and flexing.
• Windscreen leaks.
• I could go on...

 

[LOL The Irony]

• They're slow.
• Unreliable.
• Have jerky gearboxes.
• Harsh brakes.
• Poor top speed.
• Poor turning circle.
• Heating is often stuck on full.
• Front/rear destination access panels do not shut properly meaning they rattle like mad.
• Design of the windscreen means a full size blind cannot fit in the front.
• Steering is very heavy.
• It's difficult to tell if the hand brake is or isn't applied.
• Front platform and loading area is narrow making it difficult for wheelchair users to get on.
• Cab door rattles very badly.
• Panel to the main door motor is flimsy.
• Heat vents are on the roof (heat rises), so are useless in the winter.
• Material used on the cab back feels and looks like polystyrene.
• Centre positioned lights mean you get lots of glare and can't turn one side off to reduce glare.
• Design of the emergency exit is lousy, and it rattles very badly,
• Poorly positioned grab rails around the front with far too many bell pushes.
• Poor leg room at most seats.
• Very steep steps to the rear.
• Air Compressor is far too loud and makes the whole rear of the vehicle shake.
• Certain Max examples already suffer chassis corrosion.
• Engine bay protrudes in to the passenger saloon compromising leg room at the rear even more. Additionally it's easy to burn your legs if you're not careful.
• Glazing at the rear of the bus is very shallow and doesn't go right up to the rear, meaning the rear rows of seats can be rather claustrophobic as the design doesn't let in might light.
• Suspension is rubbish and seems to create bumps in the road that don't exist.
• They sit too low to the ground so sometimes ground out causing damage to the underside of the bus.
• Cab has too many overhead buttons.
• LED interior lights are far too bright.
• Interior light housing doesn't fit properly.
• The automated interior lights system is unreliable and will often turn the lights off randomly at night.
• Not enough opening hopper windows and they often slam shut over bumps.
• They have a tendency to gulp and run out of coolant.
• Coolant pipes often burst.
• Wheels are too small causing poor ride and a poor turning circle.
• Rear window is far too high and pretty useless.
• Water leaks in where the fibreglass front/rear moulds meet with the roof. Some operators have got around this by fitting tape over the join.
• Luggage rack is far too small with more space lost due to the position of the fire extinguisher.
• Items do not stay in the luggage racks as the bars are too low.
• Ticket bin is hinged from the bottom and often falls off over bumps emptying the contents.
• Poor MPG.
• Lack of padding in the seats behind the cab and on the last row.
• Seats behind the cab fall off their mountings quite easily so have to be 'bodged' back in place.
• Grab rails rattle on idle.
• Bell pushes often don't work first time.
• External engine noise is extreme and when Streetlites are on my route they often vibrate the house. I don't get this with any other bus type.
• The rubber seal around the emergency exit door leaks.
• At low speeds the gearbox jumps between neutral and drive.
• When drive is engaged the bus lurches forward.
• If you're cruising at around 20 MPH and apply the brakes you often have to apply them harshly to get the vehicle to stop as it wants to continue moving forward.
• When changing gear the whole bus vibrates.
• It's near impossible to stop a Streetlite without giving all the passengers whiplash, often drivers will put the vehicle in to neutral when slowing down in order to stop the retarder kicking in.
• The side destination is bodged in.
• They make a very loud air release sound when slowing down, this wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the fact it's soo loud and regular.
• Air tanks seems to loose pressure easily.
• In colder weather the electronics like to freeze.
• Offside mirror arm is far too long.
• The seat moulding behind the cab is only attached at the bottom so rattles badly, there is also a really nasty blackout sticker behind the seat that collects dirt.
• Prone to wheel spinning due to harsh gear changes.
• Internal advert frames are at an odd angle and mean that adverts easily fall out.
• Lack of a glass screen next to the door means that when the doors are opened in the winter you get a bad draft around the front half of the bus.
• Air vents are only up once side of the bus.
• No roof air ventilation, this is something all previous Wright products had.
• Door buttons and flimsy and Wright are prone to fitting them the wrong way round.
• No grab rail over the window in the WC bay makes it unsafe for standees.
• General construction and use of materials on the interior is poor.
• Cab back doesn't fully extend to the roof.
• A wheelchair cannot board if a full size adult is sitting in the seats behind the cab.
• When going over cobbles you can see the body of the bus bending and flexing.
• Windscreen leaks.
• I could go on...

You forgot they require at least 2 turns of the ignition to start

 

[carlberry]

• They're slow.
• Unreliable.
• Have jerky gearboxes.
  
• .....................................................................................
  
• A wheelchair cannot board if a full size adult is sitting in the seats behind the cab.
• When going over cobbles you can see the body of the bus bending and flexing.
• Windscreen leaks.
• I could go on...

But apart from that you quite like them?

 

[Jordan Adam]

You forgot they require at least 2 turns of the ignition to start

Whoops!

But apart from that you quite like them?

Superb buses they are! Almost as good as the fantastic amazing Plaxton Primo.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Superb buses they are! Almost as good as the fantastic amazing Plaxton Primo.

Excellent buses those Primo's, massive rear overhang as well

 

[rj246]

But from a bus company perspective,
ride quality may not be the major concern for buying decision,
otherwise they would sticked with heavy weight, more fuel thirsty but more robust SD.
I would think is it the real problem being
Streetlite or Streetdeck just isn't being economical to run in comparing to the
ADL's offering of E200MMC and E400MMC being the main driver diverting business away.

 

[Jordan Adam]

But from a bus company perspective,
ride quality may not be the major concern for buying decision,
otherwise they would sticked with heavy weight, more fuel thirsty but more robust SD.
I would think is it the real problem being
Streetlite or Streetdeck just isn't being economical to run in comparing to the
ADL's offering of E200MMC and E400MMC being the main driver diverting business away.

Agreed, however even comparing the Streetlite to a E200 the ride different is pretty noticeable. One of Wright's biggest downfalls is they don't listen to the customers. A number of the issues with the Streetlites, including water leaking in where the fibreglass meets to the roof (this also affects the Gemini3/Streetdeck) were reported to Wrightbus years ago and yet they've never sorted it.

 

[JL1]

Does anyone know if the StreetLites for Hemel Hempstead have all been completed or not?

 

[KGGXXXY]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49854380

Wrightbus: Would-be buyers were asked to lease factory for £1m

The factory which Wrightbus operates from is not owned by a group company
The family which owned Wrightbus have denied they acted unreasonably during attempts to sell the business.

The Wrightbus factory is owned by Jeff Wright, separately from the manufacturing company.

It is understood that potential buyers were being asked for about £1m a year to lease the property.

Meanwhile, a church led by Mr Wright has said it understands "the hurt, anger and confusion felt by so many" at the loss of 1,200 jobs in Ballymena.

The Green Pastures charity received £15m in donations from Wrightbus over six years.

The Wright Group went into administration on Wednesday.
On Friday, a Green Pastures Church spokesperson said that many of its congregation "have been personally affected by these job losses".

"We are doing all we can to support them at this time," the statement continued.

"As with any donation we receive as a church, we are incredibly grateful for the support the Wright family have offered us.

"They, along with many others, chose to be generous when their family business enabled them to do so."

Image Wrightbus donated £15m to Green Pastures over six years
The Wrightbus factory is owned separately from the manufacturing company by a firm called Whirlwind Property Two, which is controlled by Jeff Wright.

This is understood to have been a sticking point during the sales negotiation and was alluded to by the prime minister in a BBC interview on Thursday.

The Wright family said that one bidder had agreed to rent the factory but later withdrew the offer.

Wrightbus's majority shareholder is Jeff Wright, who leads Green Pastures, a religious charity
They said: "Last week there were two final bidders in discussions regarding acquisition of Wright Group.

"A rental agreement for the sites was reached with one bidder, who then pulled out of the deal on Friday 20 September.

"A second bidder discussed purchasing the sites, but no formal letter of offer was made from that bidder.

"Any reports to the contrary are completely inaccurate."

Mid and East Antrim Council held a redundancy clinic at The Braid in Ballymena on Friday.

It said it had identified 250 job vacancies that could be suitable for workers who had been made redundant.

 

[KGGXXXY]

With all the evidence mounting up, looks like the family are more to blame than the external factors. If the Wright family still own the factory, more likely any remnants picked up will produced elsewhere dependent on buyer either in the UK, Ireland or possible China.

 

[LOL The Irony]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49854380

Well of course nobody wanted to buy them. I wouldn't want to pour a million down the drain each year.

 

[tbtc]

Why does everyone hate Streetlites so much? I use them regularly and find them pretty good to travel on.

Just my opinion, but they've been running on my local route for around five years now and I can't get away from the feeling that they are a bus designed to keep the bus company happy (fuel efficient, lightweight etc) rather than one designed primarily for passengers. Now, there's nothing wrong with a bus designed around the requirements of bus companies - manufacturers have got to keep the client happy - I get that - but they don't seem suited to Sheffield's bumpy roads, they feel "cheap", I can't see them lasting much beyond ten years (and I say this having had rubbish B7Ls on my route for over a decade). But maybe they are intended to be "disposable" like that, I dunno.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49854380

With all the evidence mounting up, looks like the family are more to blame than the external factors. If the Wright family still own the factory, more likely any remnants picked up will produced elsewhere dependent on buyer either in the UK, Ireland or possible China.

I wonder if the plan was to donate huge sums of money to the church, keep the factory owned by the family, let the manufacturing side go to the wall and then assume that they'd get some of that sweet sweet DUP subsidy to ensure that someone came along with taxpayer cash to "rescue" the jobs (and therefore renting their factory site at a healthy cost)? Hoping that politicians would decide that their business was "too big to fail" (and would therefore happily keep throwing public money at it, because the idea of the DUP sitting on their hands whilst one of the biggest private sector employers in Northern Ireland closed (especially one in Ballymena) would be unthinkable.

 

[Robertj21a]

Edit

I wonder if the plan was to donate huge sums of money to the church, keep the factory owned by the family, let the manufacturing side go to the wall and then assume that they'd get some of that sweet sweet DUP subsidy to ensure that someone came along with taxpayer cash to "rescue" the jobs (and therefore renting their factory site at a healthy cost)? Hoping that politicians would decide that their business was "too big to fail" (and would therefore happily keep throwing public money at it, because the idea of the DUP sitting on their hands whilst one of the biggest private sector employers in Northern Ireland closed (especially one in Ballymena) would be unthinkable.

Whether or not that was the key plan, I think it's fair to say that it was a surprise to unravel the sheer number of companies with family connections that were involved under the Wrightbus organisation. It would make many people wonder why so many inter-related companies, some with financial arrangements with the others, were necessary.

 

[Fisherman80]

Hi guys,
Not as knowledgeable with buses as I am with trains,but just a couple of questions with regards to Wrightbus collapsing and I hope I dont sound stupid!
First of all, I live in Bradford and with all those new Streetdecks in Leeds,would they usually be under some kind of warranty in normal circumstances?
Secondly,if First take a financial hit because of Wrightbus going bust,could we perhaps see a fare increase?