• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Regular Double Headers

Status
Not open for further replies.

JohnMcL7

Member
Joined
18 Apr 2018
Messages
861
Caledonian Sleeper Inverness portion was (is?) regularly double-headed under Serco.

It's a single 67 at the moment but will return to double heading with a pair of 73's when the mk5's are deployed to the Highlander. I'm not sure about the Aberdeen/Fort William portions which are currently using 73's and although the plan is just one 73 for these routes I've seen quite a few pictures of them double heading.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

BRX

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
3,599
Didnt tinsley yard have some 08's that were paired up, with one cab removed, for hump shunting? Cl13

do the pairs of Cl27 on each end of the Edinburgh - Glasgow push pulls count?

And do an ex Cl25 converted to an ETHEL* + the actual loco count as double header?

*Electric train Heating Ex Locomotive
If push pulls count, we're going to have to include HSTs!
 

vidal

Member
Joined
23 Feb 2017
Messages
90
Location
Bolton
Regular workings of 2 (usually Cricklewood) 25's on the Fletliner to ?Allerton.

James
 

33017

Member
Joined
9 Sep 2017
Messages
273
late 60s early 70s............some Paddington-Plymouths were hauled by two Warships in multiple.
The MU jumpers were apparently reinstated on a small subfleet to allow it
Off the top of my head 803/804/807/808/819/822-829/831/832 & 866-870 were the loco’s involved.
 

Czesziafan

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2019
Messages
254
In 1975/6 1M10 06.45 Paddington - Birmingham New St and 10.25 return was a regular 2 x 31 working. I seem to remember the WR 31's had a high failure rate and Control rostered a pair for this working in case one of them failed en route.
 

Scotrail84

Established Member
Joined
5 Jul 2010
Messages
2,360
It's a single 67 at the moment but will return to double heading with a pair of 73's when the mk5's are deployed to the Highlander. I'm not sure about the Aberdeen/Fort William portions which are currently using 73's and although the plan is just one 73 for these routes I've seen quite a few pictures of them double heading.

That might not actually be the case. The 67 might be retained doubled with a 73 that will provide ETH only, 2 x 73's may not be able to haul a load 8 up the gradients, especially if one fails en route.
 

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
6,063
A few more...

The southbound Scottish internal overnight used to be double headed between Perth and Stirling. Northbound the Glasgow and Edinburgh portions joined at Perth but southbound they split at Stirling, so this avoided a light engine move. I once had a 40 + 47 combo on this.

The Euston - Stranraer overnight used to get a 20 attached to the front of the 47 at Ayr to assist over the hills. The 20 then headed the 47 on the first morning Glasgow service to get it back to Ayr.

Similarly, when the Bristol - Glasgow overnight was diverted via Worcester on a Saturday night, a 37 would pair up with the train engine from Worcester to New St.

Steel trains from Teesside to Workington used to be hauled by pairs of 37s.

The Cardiff - Edinburgh 'Principality' was booked for a pair of 50s to New St on Saturdays for a time in the late 80s. Sometimes turned up with just one on the front however.
 

Lucan

Established Member
Joined
21 Feb 2018
Messages
1,211
Location
Wales
So, dumb question, did these double headers have a crew in each cab, or was the second loco remote controlled?
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,686
Location
Devon
So, dumb question, did these double headers have a crew in each cab, or was the second loco remote controlled?
It would depend on whether they had multiple working equipment. For instance on the 33 here it shows that the loco is fitted with blue star multiple working equipment:
0BD88241-8C39-4B17-ADE8-24069F568FD4.jpeg
Which means in theory it could work in multiple (with just one driver controlling them) any other class that was so fitted - so at least classes 20,24,25,26,27,31,33,37 etc.
Blue star was the most common, but there were others as well. For instance class 50s had orange square MW, but could only work with each other.
Generally in the past classes 45 and 47 couldn’t work in multiple so would require two sets of crew.
 

Ken H

On Moderation
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
6,271
Location
N Yorks
So, dumb question, did these double headers have a crew in each cab, or was the second loco remote controlled?

Locos could operate in multiple with locos with the same multiple code.
In this image of a Cl31 you can see the blue star on the yellow bit
gallery_6667_1629_214238.jpg

So that Cl 31 could operate with any other loco with blue star. (Some Cl31's were not blue star - the 'toffee apples were not)
Obviously, consideration had to be made about whether the locos and train were vacuum or air braked, and whether the loco nearest the train had ETH provision.

If there is no multiple provision, then you need a driver in each loco. That is operating in tandem.

More here on Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_working

Cl47 and Cl55 were not multiple equipped as new, But some Cl47's did receive MU later

Some data in the linky about EMU and DMUs too.
 

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
6,063
Some Cl31's were not blue star - the 'toffee apples were not
Just to add that the 31/0 'Toffee Apples' were so nicknamed because of their red circle multiple working code.
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,686
Location
Devon
Just to add that the 31/0 'Toffee Apples' were so nicknamed because of their red circle multiple working code.
I thought it was something to do with the control key that had to be inserted in either end upon changing direction?
I can’t find a picture of one now though.
 

randyrippley

Established Member
Joined
21 Feb 2016
Messages
5,079
It would depend on whether they had multiple working equipment. For instance on the 33 here it shows that the loco is fitted with blue star multiple working equipment:
View attachment 68896
Which means in theory it could work in multiple (with just one driver controlling them) any other class that was so fitted - so at least classes 20,24,25,26,27,31,33,37 etc.
Blue star was the most common, but there were others as well. For instance class 50s had orange square MW, but could only work with each other.
Generally in the past classes 45 and 47 couldn’t work in multiple so would require two sets of crew.

As built, the Peaks and 40s were Blue Star as well
As far as I can remember the 47s were the first not to have multiple jumpers of some kind
 

randyrippley

Established Member
Joined
21 Feb 2016
Messages
5,079
I thought it was something to do with the control key that had to be inserted in either end upon changing direction?
I can’t find a picture of one now though.
thats certainly the story reported online
 

billio

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2012
Messages
496
I am not exactly sure of the date, but probably in the mid to late 80's, but the 8-00am-ish Oxford- Paddington, ex-Hereford was sometimes hauled by a pair of 31s. One day I remember they were even triple-heading the train. And on another day, the trailing engine entered the station on fire !.
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,686
Location
Devon
As built, the Peaks and 40s were Blue Star as well
As far as I can remember the 47s were the first not to have multiple jumpers of some kind
I was thinking this too. I’ve seen class 40/25 pairings in pictures before (I think at least one such pair made it to Exeter Riverside on oil tanks in the eighties). But the Peaks must have had their equipment removed quite early on. Why was that then I wonder?
 

randyrippley

Established Member
Joined
21 Feb 2016
Messages
5,079
I was thinking this too. I’ve seen class 40/25 pairings in pictures before (I think at least one such pair made it to Exeter Riverside on oil tanks in the eighties). But the Peaks must have had their equipment removed quite early on. Why was that then I wonder?
for the same reason as the Westerns and 47s never had MU fitted - no-one could envisage trains heavy enough to need two 2500+bhp locos. The parts were better used as spares elsewhere
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,686
Location
Devon
for the same reason as the Westerns and 47s never had MU fitted - no-one could envisage trains heavy enough to need two 2500+bhp locos. The parts were better used as spares elsewhere
I guess so. When the more powerful 56s came along in the seventies they had MU equipment fitted from new, but then it’s understandable with them because of what they were designed to do.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a picture of any variety of Peak actually working in multiple apart from possibly 97403 being paired up with the class 24 - 97201, although I seem to remember that 45s were rostered as a tandem pair on a Midland mainline turn at some point back in those days.
 

33017

Member
Joined
9 Sep 2017
Messages
273
As far as I can remember the 47s were the first not to have multiple jumpers of some kind
Not quite. Westerns were the first production mainline diesels without multiple working, D1000 entering traffic 9 months before D1500.

EDIT: forgot about Deltics - into traffic 10 months earlier than D1000.
 
Last edited:

d9009alycidon

Member
Joined
22 Jun 2011
Messages
837
Location
Eaglesham
I have it in my head that Mossend to Ravenscraig was normally two on the front and a banker on the rear, I think for reasons of bridge loading but it may have been operationally simpler. Even when the banker went on the front, I believe it was still driven independently rather than being under MU control.

The original diesel iron ore trains were 2 x 20 from General Terminus Quay to Ravenscraig but the introducation of the big Bogie tipplers brought about a change to 2 x 37 with a class 20 banker added at Rosehall junction in Coatbridge, this changed after a derailment on the curve from Mossend North to Mossend East where (I am told) there was a lack of communication between the lead locos and thee banker and the 37s slowed and the 20 kept pushing causing the tipplers to get spread out all over the curve. The 20 was then added to the front at Mossend and this was then changed to 3 x 37 from Mossend until the 60s arrived and they managed the run single handed
 

Ken H

On Moderation
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
6,271
Location
N Yorks
I thought it was something to do with the control key that had to be inserted in either end upon changing direction?
I can’t find a picture of one now though.
Thought it was the power handle with a big round knob on the end. Like a toffee-apple
 

RichmondCommu

Established Member
Joined
23 Feb 2010
Messages
6,912
Location
Richmond, London
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the double headed MetroVick 'Condor' express freight services between Hendon and Glasgow. Cricklewood had a fleet of seven of the above to run the service.
 

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
7,320
Most (all?) class 86 freight workings seem to be double headed

There are a few occasional single 86 liner workings, but excluding any trains going over Shap or Beattock unless the train load is unusually light.
 

Mavira_John

New Member
Joined
30 Sep 2019
Messages
1
Location
Phuket, Thailand
Despite requiring time-consuming shunting operations each time an engine had to be added or removed to a train this arrangement remained in place on parts of the GWR until nationalisation in 1948.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top