Northern Unit Refurbishments

[superkev]

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O43118/2019/09/27/advanced

150277 sat outside wabtec at Kilmarnock this morning, started up and ready to go.

On it's way. 4th attempt lucky.
K

 

[JModulo]

On it's way. 4th attempt lucky.
K

Collapsed at Dumfries this time, rest of the path caped.

 

[Harvey B]

It does.

Then that particular 158 should have places to charge your phone AFAIK every 158 that have the new seats should have them

 

[Paul_10]

Collapsed at Dumfries this time, rest of the path caped.

Does anything below the sole bar gets altered during these works? Apart from the toilet tank, what would cause such unreliability and I just wonder if loco hauling this particular unit should be an option so at least it makes it back home.

 

[JModulo]

Does anything below the sole bar gets altered during these works? Apart from the toilet tank, what would cause such unreliability and I just wonder if loco hauling this particular unit should be an option so at least it makes it back home.

Might just be with it sitting for such a long period of time.

Regarding the toilet tanks on the 150 refurbs, are they actually on the underframe or are they fitted elsewhere (ie behind toilet module). Some of the refurbs appear not to have them at all.

 

[Neptune]

Then that particular 158 should have places to charge your phone AFAIK every 158 that have the new seats should have them

It’s been mentioned on more occasions than I care to remember that USB/WiFi is to be done later. Some may get it done as part of refurbishment but most will not.

 

[superkev]

Might just be with it sitting for such a long period of time.

Regarding the toilet tanks on the 150 refurbs, are they actually on the underframe or are they fitted elsewhere (ie behind toilet module). Some of the refurbs appear not to have them at all.

Surely they dont continue emptying onto the track.
Doesn't fitting toilet retension tanks have an end date same or similar to the PRM mods.
K

 

[jonesy3001]

150135 going past todmorden cam on this route this morning, going back to NH;
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03668/2019/09/28/advanced
150105/107 or 109 on the return journey;
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03669/2019/09/28/advanced

 

[jonesy3001]

156 movements on sunday between newton heath and wolverton;
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K62189/2019/09/29/advanced
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K62188/2019/09/29/advanced

 

[AMD]

150105/107 or 109 on the return journey;
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03669/2019/09/28/advanced

It would have been 150109, as it was on shed this morning, whereas both 105 & 107 are out on services.

 

[superkev]

Collapsed at Dumfries this time, rest of the path caped.

Anyone know if 150 277 is still marooned at Dumfries.
K

 

[superkev]

156 movements on sunday between newton heath and wolverton;
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K62189/2019/09/29/advanced
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K62188/2019/09/29/advanced

Appear to be cancelled.
K

 

[J4mez]

I don’t know if this has already been mentioned but it appears Northern have changed the material they are using for the seats. I have just been on 156441 and it has not got the flat cloth like other refurbished units however it does have the same design but as moquette.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I don’t know if this has already been mentioned but it appears Northern have changed the material they are using for the seats. I have just been on 156441 and it has not got the flat cloth like other refurbished units however it does have the same design but as moquette.

Yeah, they gave up on the flat cloth a few months ago. I'm guessing it'll be replaced as the rest come in for diagrams.

 

[J4mez]

Yeah, they gave up on the flat cloth a few months ago. I'm guessing it'll be replaced as the rest come in for diagrams.

The flat cloth gets dirty to easily, what would happen with the 331/195’s in regards to the seats? Will the cloth remain or end up being replaced?

 

[59CosG95]

150135 going past todmorden cam on this route this morning, going back to NH;
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03668/2019/09/28/advanced
150105/107 or 109 on the return journey;
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03669/2019/09/28/advanced

Was 150135 in the new (base) Northern livery?

 

[jonesy3001]

Was 150135 in the new (base) Northern livery?

In the old livery, only had PRM mods done, was up in kilmarnock a few years ago for corrosion repairs.

 

[js1000]

The flat cloth gets dirty to easily, what would happen with the 331/195’s in regards to the seats? Will the cloth remain or end up being replaced?

They'll probably end up being replaced in a few years although I think they'll hold up better because the new units have table/airline seats and not 3+2 back-to-back seating that encourages inconsiderate idiots to use the seats as footrests.

 

[YorksDMU]

Oh dear. Today I went on the 13.44 to Scarborough from Beverley, ex Hull, which was refurbished 158869. I was sat at the end of 52869, next to the cab end vestibule. None of the doors between the saloon and vestibules were able to be closed, albiet the aircon was working. But, from next to where I was sat there was the sound of something ‘cracking’ or ‘creaking’ from the cab. I could only think it might be a loose panel.
But the ride was atrocious. Totally unlike any other class 158 I’ve ridden on, which have always been very smooth riders, the bogies were banging and crashing about just like they would on a run down first generation unit ready for shopping. Over numerous joints, when running over jointed track panels, there would be a sudden and violent vertical jolt which was also very loud. It was as if something in the bogie suspension had maybe been overtightened in some way. The bogies seemed to be too sensitive to the condition of the track in a way other 158 bogies are not.
I’m hoping it will all settle down soon, but I’m getting disappointed with these refurbished units. I hope that future refurbishments will be better.

 

[superkev]

Oh dear. Today I went on the 13.44 to Scarborough from Beverley, ex Hull, which was refurbished 158869. I was sat at the end of 52869, next to the cab end vestibule. None of the doors between the saloon and vestibules were able to be closed, albiet the aircon was working. But, from next to where I was sat there was the sound of something ‘cracking’ or ‘creaking’ from the cab. I could only think it might be a loose panel.
But the ride was atrocious. Totally unlike any other class 158 I’ve ridden on, which have always been very smooth riders, the bogies were banging and crashing about just like they would on a run down first generation unit ready for shopping. Over numerous joints, when running over jointed track panels, there would be a sudden and violent vertical jolt which was also very loud. It was as if something in the bogie suspension had maybe been overtightened in some way. The bogies seemed to be too sensitive to the condition of the track in a way other 158 bogies are not.
I’m hoping it will all settle down soon, but I’m getting disappointed with these refurbished units. I hope that future refurbishments will be better.

Sadly those in charge dont seem to see any value in other than essential maintenance of the mechanical bits so redecoration or refresh are more appropriate words. Only last wee I saw a newly done 158 with all tenth hoppers open (no air con) and sending out clouds of smoke when it set off.
K

 

[superkev]

Few movements Neville hill to and from Crewe works this sat. Timed for 158. See if there taken up.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04026/2019/10/05/advanced
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04025/2019/10/05/advanced
Also paths sat Crewe to from NH and NL to from Brush.
K

 

[jonesy3001]

could this be 323234 going back to allerton after refurbishment?
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04021/2019/10/05/advanced

Movement will now happen on the 12th oct

 

[BurtonM]

To call these units refurbs is an insult to the term. It's not even redecoration, it's pulling out the seats, throwing some paint in, recovering the seats and job jobbed.

The finish of the refurbs is like that of a independent local bus company in a city suburb, that's tried to internally refresh a knackered 20+ year old Dennis Dart by unbolting the seats, masking off the windows with newspaper and masking tape, then dragging around a compressor full of cheap gloss white and spraying all the wall panels etc, with no regard for the fact that they've not been removed since new, and are all bent, riveted in place, loosely fitting and rattling about, etc. No pride taken, just a blowover to make it look 'modern' in the hope nobody notices the poor fit.


Have some ******* pride, Northern. Nobody else would pull this.

 

[superkev]

Few movements Neville hill to and from Crewe works this sat. Timed for 158. See if there taken up.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04026/2019/10/05/advanced
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04025/2019/10/05/advanced
Also paths sat Crewe to from NH and NL to from Brush.
K

Cancelled again

 

[Lewis Tickle]

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03820/2019/10/05/advanced
A 150 coming back from works, might be 150106

 

[Harvey B]

To call these units refurbs is an insult to the term. It's not even redecoration, it's pulling out the seats, throwing some paint in, recovering the seats and job jobbed.

The finish of the refurbs is like that of a independent local bus company in a city suburb, that's tried to internally refresh a knackered 20+ year old Dennis Dart by unbolting the seats, masking off the windows with newspaper and masking tape, then dragging around a compressor full of cheap gloss white and spraying all the wall panels etc, with no regard for the fact that they've not been removed since new, and are all bent, riveted in place, loosely fitting and rattling about, etc. No pride taken, just a blowover to make it look 'modern' in the hope nobody notices the poor fit.


Have some ******* pride, Northern. Nobody else would pull this.

Can I ask what you expect from a refurbishment?

 

[superkev]

Can I ask what you expect from a refurbishment?

My personal view is a refurbishment should be as done in BR days or by London buses and others in pre privatisation days I.e. complete stipdown with all mechanical components reconditioned, interior refreshed and full repaint. Northern just do the last 2. May be mixed up with the complexities leasing of.
K

 

[Harvey B]

My personal view is a refurbishment should be as done in BR days or by London buses and others in pre privatisation days I.e. complete stipdown with all mechanical components reconditioned, interior refreshed and full repaint. Northern just do the last 2. May be mixed up with the complexities leasing of.
K

All that matters is the last too since refirbishmemt is aesthetics more than mechanics but for some reason @BurtonM thinks that more can be done and I want to know what he thinks could be done with interior refurbs.

 

[jonesy3001]

To call these units refurbs is an insult to the term. It's not even redecoration, it's pulling out the seats, throwing some paint in, recovering the seats and job jobbed.

The finish of the refurbs is like that of a independent local bus company in a city suburb, that's tried to internally refresh a knackered 20+ year old Dennis Dart by unbolting the seats, masking off the windows with newspaper and masking tape, then dragging around a compressor full of cheap gloss white and spraying all the wall panels etc, with no regard for the fact that they've not been removed since new, and are all bent, riveted in place, loosely fitting and rattling about, etc. No pride taken, just a blowover to make it look 'modern' in the hope nobody notices the poor fit.


Have some ******* pride, Northern. Nobody else would pull this.

Northern are getting the PRM mods out of the way before they can refurbish the trains and the deadline is 31/12/2019 unless they have been given an extension while the 323s are also getting refurbished.

Just leaves;
5 150/1s 105/107/110/111/122
9 150/2s 201/209/210/215/218/224-226/268
12 156s 425/426/429/447/449/459-461/464/465/485/496
2 158/8s 786/789
5 158/9s 901/903/906/907 and 910,
before the PRM deadline at the end of the year.
15 323s 323223 - 323233/235-7 and 239, should all be done by easter 2020.

 

[Greybeard33]

Indeed. Obviously the largest element of PRM work [on a 153] would be installing an accessible toilet, which for 20 single carriage units would be economically unviable (hence the suggestion of pairing them with 15x units that ARE equipped with accessible toilets). Smaller work such as door sounders and PIS systems could probably be done over a week, based on learned experience with the 155s, but this is fairly academic as we've no idea what the current plan is with the 153s.

It has been reported on the Will TfW meet the 1/1/2020 PRM deadline? thread that 153325 is back from PRM mods, complete with accessible toilet and seating capacity consequently reduced to 59.

If Northern wants to keep its 153s in service in 2020, it will not now be possible to argue that PRM compliance is infeasible!