Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[ScotRail158725]

And yet other companies run around with buses older than it and in worse shape too.

*cough* first glasgow and their 51 plate B10s

 

[Jordan Adam]

*cough* first glasgow and their 51 plate B10s

Granted some of the B10s within First Scottish ops may look battered, but mechanically they're sound, arguably more so than some of Lothians younger Tridents. There's no need for this petty slagging off of other operators, this is the behaviour i expect from petty Lothian fanboys on Flickr who get offended by two tone blue buses - not a civilised forum!

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

*cough* first glasgow and their 51 plate B10s

I can't comment on Glasgow buses as ones I have used recently (75 for example) is pretty new, but I have seen some W plates running around some cities down south and look like they are falling apart. That said I have also seen some fairly new buses that look like they are falling apart too.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I can't comment on Glasgow buses as ones I have used recently (75 for example) is pretty new, but I have seen some W plates running around some cities down south and look like they are falling apart. That said I have also seen some fairly new buses that look like they are falling apart too.

About half the B10s in Glasgow have been repainted in the last 10 weeks, they'll be leaving the service fleet soon however they're only used on a local run out in Dumbarton. As i say, while some of the Scottish B10s may look rough round the edges (particularly Aberdeens 3 Barbie examples), however at a mechanically aspect they're in superb condition and had work done on them not too long ago by Volvo to prolong their life. Not to mention the fact they're still the most reliable vehicle type and favourites with the drivers! To say they're falling apart (as others have alluded) is quite frankly inaccurate.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Granted some of the B10s within First Scottish ops may look battered, but mechanically they're sound, arguably more so than some of Lothians younger Tridents. There's no need for this petty slagging off of other operators, this is the behaviour i expect from petty Lothian fanboys on Flickr who get offended by two tone blue buses - not a civilised forum!

yes they might be reapainted and be fine mechanically but the interiors are dreadfull, its the same case for most of Glasgows B10s, B7TLs & B7RLEs. i also dont get how im a “lothian fanboy” for stating glasgow uses old fleet. I like first Glasgow fleet almost as much as Lothian its just Glasgow has way older vehicles that are in a poor condition

 

[Jordan Adam]

yes they might be reapainted and be fine mechanically but the interiors are dreadfull, its the same case for most of Glasgows B10s, B7TLs & B7RLEs. i also dont get how im a “lothian fanboy” for stating glasgow uses old fleet. I like first Glasgow fleet almost as much as Lothian its just Glasgow has way older vehicles that are in a poor condition

Actually, if you read my post i didn't call you a fanboy.

I won't disagree that the interiors are scabby (albeit the Aberdeen examples are very tidy internally), however the point i was making was that there was no need for a petty drag like that. Lothians older vehicles are not perfect either, take a quick look on social media and you'll see plenty of leaky Geminis and seats falling to bits on the older vehicles. Not the mention the state some of the Tridents were in mechanically towards the end was poor and below what i'd expect from a company like Lothian. Glasgow had a long standing issue with vandalism, so often there's no point replacing a seat if it's only slightly damage as the new one will probably get damaged just as quickly.

 

[BobScott]

And yet other companies run around with buses older than it and in worse shape too.

661 was highly likely to have been a donor of parts such as engine gearbox etc and body parts and what was left of it wasn’t worth keeping

 

[ScotRail158725]

661 was highly likely to have been a donor of parts such as engine gearbox etc and body parts and what was left of it wasn’t worth keeping

Its Ensign though and they usually just sell whatever to scrap. Most Ex Metroline VPs went straight for scrap as soon as they went to Ensign

 

[Lothian_Bus]

There is a post on an East Edinburgh community forum stating that route 44 is going to be part of a "bus stop rationalisation" pilot - meaning it will stop at less stops and thus run quicker. Any truth / likelihood of this or just a nonsense rumour?

 

[A330Alex]

There is a post on an East Edinburgh community forum stating that route 44 is going to be part of a "bus stop rationalisation" pilot - meaning it will stop at less stops and thus run quicker. Any truth / likelihood of this or just a nonsense rumour?

The council have been talking about bus stop rationalisation for quite a while so I wouldn't be surprised. Would be quite interesting to see how they do it!

 

[awsnews]

About half the B10s in Glasgow have been repainted in the last 10 weeks, they'll be leaving the service fleet soon however they're only used on a local run out in Dumbarton. As i say, while some of the Scottish B10s may look rough round the edges (particularly Aberdeens 3 Barbie examples), however at a mechanically aspect they're in superb condition and had work done on them not too long ago by Volvo to prolong their life. Not to mention the fact they're still the most reliable vehicle type and favourites with the drivers! To say they're falling apart (as others have alluded) is quite frankly inaccurate.

There have been 2 repaints in the last few weeks which is by no means half of what is allocated to Dumbarton. Whilst they are generally to be found on the 206 (not Sundays) and 208 recently 2 or 3 E300s are appearing on the 206 on a daily basis due to non availability of the Volvos. They are certainly not 'the most reliable type'.

 

[buslad1988]

The council have been talking about bus stop rationalisation for quite a while so I wouldn't be surprised. Would be quite interesting to see how they do it!

Hooray! About time they started rationalising bus stops across the whole city... it’s ridiculous how close together some of them are! Constant stop/start on some routes and the 44 is one of the worst offenders - especially through Juniper Green.

A similar scheme has been undertaken in Birmingham and as a result journey times have improved and ridership has increased.

The rationalisation doesn’t have to be too drastic; just enough to get a happy balance. Walking a few extra yards to a bus stop doesn’t hurt anyone and the council can promote healthy/active living too.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Walking a few extra yards to a bus stop doesn’t hurt anyone

For some who have mobility issues, or certain disabilities, walking an extra few yards can actually be physically taxing and cause extreme pain. I do however agree that some stops are far too close together and should be spread out a bit. However, the council need to do it carefully.

 

[Jordan Adam]

There have been 2 repaints in the last few weeks which is by no means half of what is allocated to Dumbarton. Whilst they are generally to be found on the 206 (not Sundays) and 208 recently 2 or 3 E300s are appearing on the 206 on a daily basis due to non availability of the Volvos. They are certainly not 'the most reliable type'.

Without wishing to go any further off topic, I think you'll find that's because the PVR of the 206/208 outnumber the number of B10BLEs in service!... My comment about reliability was more regarding the Aberdeen examples.

 

[Auld reekie]

Hooray! About time they started rationalising bus stops across the whole city... it’s ridiculous how close together some of them are! Constant stop/start on some routes and the 44 is one of the worst offenders - especially through Juniper Green.

A similar scheme has been undertaken in Birmingham and as a result journey times have improved and ridership has increased.

The rationalisation doesn’t have to be too drastic; just enough to get a happy balance. Walking a few extra yards to a bus stop doesn’t hurt anyone and the council can promote healthy/active living too.

In my opinion there are only 2 stops close together.
The one at St Margaret’s Court and the one outside the Al Borgo restaurant.

 

[ejstubbs]

They could rationalise some of the stops on the number 4 route around Oxgangs in the Hillend direction while they're at it. Oxgangs Avenue to New Swanston is four stops in less than a third of a mile!

 

[Siemens Trains]

In my opinion there are only 2 stops close together.
The one at St Margaret’s Court and the one outside the Al Borgo restaurant.

Probably no need for the Al Borgo stop nowadays, nor since the mid 1980s. If I remember rightly the history behind those stops was that the 44 and 45 used to turn right into Baberton Avenue to go round Belmont Road and terminate outside the Scott's butcher shop on Lanark Road. A new stop was felt necessary for elderly residents of St Margaret's Court who used the 44 or 45. Meanwhile the 52 and 53 carried straight on to Balerno where the original Al Borgo stop was appropriate. Not that Al Borgo was there at the time, but you know what I mean.

 

[Auld reekie]

Probably no need for the Al Borgo stop nowadays, nor since the mid 1980s. If I remember rightly the history behind those stops was that the 44 and 45 used to turn right into Baberton Avenue to go round Belmont Road and terminate outside the Scott's butcher shop on Lanark Road. A new stop was felt necessary for elderly residents of St Margaret's Court who used the 44 or 45. Meanwhile the 52 and 53 carried straight on to Balerno where the original Al Borgo stop was appropriate. Not that Al Borgo was there at the time, but you know what I mean.

Totally agree with you.

 

[ScotRail158725]

There is a post on an East Edinburgh community forum stating that route 44 is going to be part of a "bus stop rationalisation" pilot - meaning it will stop at less stops and thus run quicker. Any truth / likelihood of this or just a nonsense rumour?

so basically be like a semi-express route?

 

[ANWP Tom]

London Road comes to mind for too many stops. 4 between Easter Road and Elm Row is at least 1 too many. A speeding up of the 44 is a great idea. Seems to work ok skipping a few on the X15 compared to the old 15. Shame it doesn't run weekends. Peirshill square East/West is another one that springs to mind in the network. Even speeding 1 service up on duplicate sections especially where there is bad time keeping would be a good idea too.

These spring to mind:
4/5 Elm Row-Peirshill (put 1 limited stop as per X24 stops)
34/35 Riccartion-Longstone Roundabout, Slateford-Lothian Road
37/47 Surgeons Hall-Straiton Roundabout/West End-Crewe Toll

26 would be another route that springs to mind that would benefit from less stops.

 

[computerSaysNo]

London Road comes to mind for too many stops. 4 between Easter Road and Elm Row is at least 1 too many. A speeding up of the 44 is a great idea. Seems to work ok skipping a few on the X15 compared to the old 15. Shame it doesn't run weekends. Peirshill square East/West is another one that springs to mind in the network. Even speeding 1 service up on duplicate sections especially where there is bad time keeping would be a good idea too.

These spring to mind:
4/5 Elm Row-Peirshill (put 1 limited stop as per X24 stops)
34/35 Riccartion-Longstone Roundabout, Slateford-Lothian Road
37/47 Surgeons Hall-Straiton Roundabout/West End-Crewe Toll

26 would be another route that springs to mind that would benefit from less stops.

I would agree that the 26 needs fewer stops (especially since it goes so far out of the City), or maybe an X26 running throughout the day; every time I use the 26 the buses are always packed and it seems like every bus stops at every stop, making the journey seem to take forever.

 

[buslad1988]

London Road comes to mind for too many stops. 4 between Easter Road and Elm Row is at least 1 too many. A speeding up of the 44 is a great idea. Seems to work ok skipping a few on the X15 compared to the old 15. Shame it doesn't run weekends. Peirshill square East/West is another one that springs to mind in the network. Even speeding 1 service up on duplicate sections especially where there is bad time keeping would be a good idea too.

These spring to mind:
4/5 Elm Row-Peirshill (put 1 limited stop as per X24 stops)
34/35 Riccartion-Longstone Roundabout, Slateford-Lothian Road
37/47 Surgeons Hall-Straiton Roundabout/West End-Crewe Toll

26 would be another route that springs to mind that would benefit from less stops.

Agree Piershill Square East/West is crazy they simply need to remove both and place a new stop in between them.

Don’t think the exercise is about making services more limited stop it’s just a general cutting down on the number of bus stops relatively close together.

It may not seem like a big deal and many would question what’s the bother!? However it’s surprising the amount of time it takes to: slow a bus down, fully stop, wait for those to get on/off etc, then try pulling out again into traffic. Customers would really notice a difference too and feel they are actually getting to places faster.

 

[Edirim]

Been said for years that an X26 during the day is required although I'd think that would only work in conjunction with a change to the current X24 and X26 such that one or both miss out Portobello - controversial opinion I know but the place gets more than enough buses and it is to the detrement of East Lothian pax.
In my head I'd say X24 to be re-routed along Milton Road and Willowbrae Road and X26 becomes non stop Ship Inn to Meadowbank Shopping Centre - faster journey times for Musselburgh and the coast which is the main thing theexpress route is for and then this could be every 30 mins during the day with a reduced service 26 to Tranent/Port Seton as a result with additional short working 26s to Eastfield like the olden days?

 

[Edirim]

The things that would make buses faster are in my opinion are bus lane enforcement for a start and proper organised traffic sequencing and shortening the damn trams by a carriage - they are far too long for the streets (Just look at Europe...shorter trams and no issues).

Bus stop rationalisation would make little difference as only a few stops are too close together and even then I've heard rumour about reorganising the princes street stops to reduce them in number also...that won't solve anything as the issue isnt the number of stops but the nunmber of physical buses on that street...erugh clowncil.

 

[gavin1985]

Bus stop rationalisation would make a big difference. Fewer stops across all buses would make a massive improvement.
That being said, bus lane enforcement needs to happen, far too many cars being allowed to park, this needs to stop, no car parking regardless of it being "a minute".

Where I have been on the Lothian Country X buses, I have much preferred their journey purely down to not stopping at every stop. Whereas travelling on the 300/35/22 etc is a nightmare, almost every stop and like @buslad1988 mentioned the time it takes to slow down, stop, let people off/on, then try get back onto the road. This all adds time onto the trip.
Another reason why I am looking forward to the tram extension down to Ocean Terminal area being completed, as the 14/7/22 down Leith is soul destroying all due to the number of stops. Whereas the start of my journey is on the tram at Bankhead!

The Air-link 100 is another great example of fewer stops and a quick journey end to end.

 

[scotrail158713]

34/35 Riccartion-Longstone Roundabout, Slateford-Lothian Road

Absolutely. I’ve been travelling Princes Street to Heriot Watt once a week since August at approximately 5.30pm. The first two weeks I made the mistake of getting a 25 and 34 - Longstone to Riccarton is particularly bad because the bus pulls right into the bus stop before pulling out again. At least through Gorgie or Slateford the stop is on the main road.

The X25 is a life-saver

 

[A330Alex]

Absolutely. I’ve been travelling Princes Street to Heriot Watt once a week since August at approximately 5.30pm. The first two weeks I made the mistake of getting a 25 and 34 - Longstone to Riccarton is particularly bad because the bus pulls right into the bus stop before pulling out again. At least through Gorgie or Slateford the stop is on the main road.

The X25 is a life-saver

I travel from Tollcross out to HW several times a week and the 34 though Longstone is just painful at rush hour! If I time it right I take the X27/28 to the P&R which is much more pleasant.

Always satisfying flying along in the bus lane on Calder Road though!

 

[oldman]

Bus stop rationalisation would make little difference as only a few stops are too close together and even then I've heard rumour about reorganising the princes street stops to reduce them in number also...that won't solve anything as the issue isnt the number of stops but the nunmber of physical buses on that street...erugh clowncil.

You have buses stopping at MandS, opposite the NB Hotel and in Waterloo Place/Leith Street (when the work has finished). That's one too many I reckon. The real problem is the cars and taxis.

There's lot of possible improvements - they put in a new stop outside the Cameo, which is very useful for interchange, but left the existing stops on the other side of the junction - but I don't see why it needs the council to do this - Lothian could decide not to serve some stops and ask the council if they want any stops repositioned. I wouldn't trust council officials to get it right.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Why do lothian not make more out of express services at peak hours? X34 for example is service which could be useful to some. Although something I noticed was the number of people who get confused with some buses ie 27 and X27, while different companies, it can become confusing for some. So maybe not X34 but X84 or something. I recall buses 50-99 were mostly express wheras those 1-49 were not.

 

[A330Alex]

Why do lothian not make more out of express services at peak hours? X34 for example is service which could be useful to some.

I imagine making the X25 operate both ways would work pretty well with students going to uni/home