Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[Bletchleyite]

Looking at GA's Aventra interiors I don't see any taper. Unless SWR are secretly planning on tilting their 701s on the curves between Battersea and Waterloo I would imagine they'll be no different.

Probably not, though of note is that Siemens have produced Desiros with vertical sides (most of them) and sloped sides (ScotRail 380s). Not sure why the difference.

 

[nlogax]

True dat. I remember wondering why 380s had that taper - wasn't it to do with them being designed to be suitable for all routes within Scotland which were electrified or potentially electrifiable? Probably a question for another thread!

 

[hwl]

True dat. I remember wondering why 380s had that taper - wasn't it to do with them being designed to be suitable for all routes within Scotland which were electrified or potentially electrifiable? Probably a question for another thread!

The original desiro EMUs were designed for some tight fits in Wessex area infrastructure with Scottish infrastructure possibly less problematic.

 

[Goldfish62]

They look worst than Desiro cities if that photo is the final spec. They’ve gone for the one piece hand grips as aposed to the one with the divider in the middle, the aisle looks to be smaller than the 707s, they haven’t installed any of the rubber loops from the ceiling for passengers to use and I don’t see how they’ll get past disability regulations with those grey centre poles in the vestibule.

No issues with grey poles. All the regs require is sufficient contrast with immediately adjacent panels. The requirement for bright colours is a myth. Just look at the Greater Anglia Flirts and Renatus 321s or the bare metal grab rails around the doors on IETs.

 

[hwl]

No issues with grey poles. All the regs require is sufficient contrast with immediately adjacent panels. The requirement for bright colours is a myth. Just look at the Greater Anglia Flirts and Renatus 321s or the bare metal grab rails around the doors on IETs.

Exactly - Contrast vs background is what matters (tonal difference) and some bright colours are surprisingly bad for this.

 

[hwl]

They look worst than Desiro cities if that photo is the final spec. They’ve gone for the one piece hand grips as aposed to the one with the divider in the middle, the aisle looks to be smaller than the 707s, they haven’t installed any of the rubber loops from the ceiling for passengers to use and I don’t see how they’ll get past disability regulations with those grey centre poles in the vestibule.

I wouldn't count on that being fully a representational render.
With the SW ITT DfT effectively specified alignment of foot space with seats and better lateral seat spacing /gaps to make the sets feel more comfortable.
Straphangers aren't that comfortable for longer use and aren't exactly PRM /female /shorter person friendly hence the shift to seat back grabholds which I'm surprised the render shows as only 2 hand rather than 3 hand versions on the later electrostars.
The render also only show a single extra ceiling mounted grab rail on one side of the vestibule area hence it probably isn't a final one but shows some options e.g. the final colour choices?

 

[Goldfish62]

Exactly - Contrast vs background is what matters (tonal difference) and some bright colours are surprisingly bad for this.

Indeed. Stagecoach red/orange grab rails against red seats aren't the best!

 

[Bletchleyite]

True dat. I remember wondering why 380s had that taper - wasn't it to do with them being designed to be suitable for all routes within Scotland which were electrified or potentially electrifiable? Probably a question for another thread!

Here goes:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...red-bodysides-when-other-desiros-dont.194073/

 

[NewSt]

No issues with grey poles. All the regs require is sufficient contrast with immediately adjacent panels. The requirement for bright colours is a myth. Just look at the Greater Anglia Flirts and Renatus 321s or the bare metal grab rails around the doors on IETs.

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[Warrior2852]

Looks like we may be getting some more info about these soon - Geoff Marshall will likely be visiting Bombardier and making a video on the 701s (as mentioned at the end of his video today about the simulators, there is a poll with currently 98% in favour of the visit), so hopefully we will see a few things like a completed interior.

 

[Goldfish62]

There's a photo of the completed interior of one on Modern Railways Twitter feed. It looks identical to the renders that were published last year. Fainsa ironing boards with no seat back tables. So basically a 707 with toilets.

 

[samuelmorris]

There's a photo of the completed interior of one on Modern Railways Twitter feed. It looks identical to the renders that were published last year. Fainsa ironing boards with no seat back tables. So basically a 707 with toilets.

Exactly as forecast then. With that colour scheme, apart from the vehicle count it's basically like another 700 if the contract was split between Bombardier/Siemens. At least the 700s are fairly bright with their clinical interior. The same drab scheme but in a darker interior is quite depressing! The TfL fleets aside which are as they are for a reason, these look like the runts of the Aventra litter. They really make the 720s and 730s look like a premium product.

Where are the extra handrails being fitted? I'm trying to work out where they'd go based on that image.

 

[Goldfish62]

Exactly as forecast then. With that colour scheme, apart from the vehicle count it's basically like another 700 if the contract was split between Bombardier/Siemens. At least the 700s are fairly bright with their clinical interior. The same drab scheme but in a darker interior is quite depressing! The TfL fleets aside which are as they are for a reason, these look like the runts of the Aventra litter. They really make the 720s and 730s look like a premium product.

Where are the extra handrails being fitted? I'm trying to work out where they'd go based on that image.

There's three or four in the door vestibule area.

There's also what appears to be a guard's operating panel...

 

[387star]

They look horribly uncomfortable

 

[387star]

I've just seen images of greater anglia and London north western aventras and shocked they are the same train

 

[samuelmorris]

They look horribly uncomfortable

They will be as comfortable as 700s (and 707s, for what it's worth), no more, no less (unless of course the ride quality is worse but I doubt that'll be the case). A justified sacrifice for 455/456 users, but certainly disappointing for 450 and 458 users

 

[387star]

They will be as comfortable as 700s (and 707s, for what it's worth), no more, no less (unless of course the ride quality is worse but I doubt that'll be the case). A justified sacrifice for 455/456 users, but certainly disappointing for 450 and 458 users

Perhaps slightly more comfortable if they are using the improved northern/scotrail seat covers? They gave leather tops so are presumably less cheap than GTR bargain basement

 

[samuelmorris]

I wasn't aware of much difference in the seat covers on regular ironing boards, I thought most of the comfort differential in the examples you cite there came from having armrests and tables, which these units won't have.

 

[Ethano92]

Truly a poor attempt of better provision for standing passengers. The 378 design is now 10 years old outlining how you can provide adequate handrails. C2c's modified metro units with 2+2 show that ceiling mounted handrails with straps don't have to be exclusively for longitudinal seating. Have bombardier made the same mistake of not being able to mount handrails to the ceiling?

 

[Warrior2852]

Here's an article that shows a different shot of the interior, without any people in the seats.
https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2...ew-895m-carriages-amid-pending-strike-action/
As has been mentioned before, these trains are a definite upgrade from 455s/456s/707s, but are a bit of a downgrade from 450s/458s, so I'm not quite sure how to feel about them. I hope they don't have any issues like other Aventras, especially the 710s though.

 

[samuelmorris]

Truly a poor attempt of better provision for standing passengers. The 378 design is now 10 years old outlining how you can provide adequate handrails. C2c's modified metro units with 2+2 show that ceiling mounted handrails with straps don't have to be exclusively for longitudinal seating. Have bombardier made the same mistake of not being able to mount handrails to the ceiling?

No, 345s have longitudinal rails on the ceiling. I assume they're being fitted to the 701s but I'm not sure I see any mounts for them in the MRM image.

 

[Goldfish62]

No, 345s have longitudinal rails on the ceiling. I assume they're being fitted to the 701s but I'm not sure I see any mounts for them in the MRM image.

As I've said before, they don't need to be mounted from the ceiling. They can be mounted from the luggage racks like on the 458/5s and the additional grab rails on the 450/5s.

 

[AlexNL]

Here's the picture of the Class 701 interior, taken from Modern Railways' Twitter page:

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

It seems that the 701s will have a small table at the window seat in each of the facing seats: Credit to Modern Railways.
https://www.facebook.com/modernrail...218302491637/1310219215824879/?type=3&theater

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

The interiors look good IMO. I don't mind ironing board seats much personally.

 

[387star]

Those are superior seats to 700s actually plus tables a good sign

 

[Bletchleyite]

The interiors look good IMO. I don't mind ironing board seats much personally.

Yeah, for what they're being used for (short innersuburban routes) they don't look bad at all to be honest. Similar in comfort to a Thameslink 319. I like the leather-effect headrest, it really adds class. Could do with seat back tables, otherwise ideal for the job.

 

[Ethano92]

They are the contoured ironing boards, I've not tried that version out. The duct does appear slightly smaller than 345s but the seats look just as close together and against the wall as Desiro cities, This doesn't wholly bother me though. The 455s were extremely generous so I'm sure that'll be a shock. I agree they'll be an upgrade for the majority, I don't think they look bad to be honest, they don't look too dull. Would've been nice for at least a cup holder on the airline seats. I can see myself liking them.

There also appears to be fairly good views out the window for those that like to look out. I can imagine carriage ends being an exception.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are the contoured ironing boards, I've not tried that version out. The duct does appear slightly smaller than 345s

I'd rather a bigger duct with a flat top so I can put my foot on it - or surely we can find a better arrangement in 2019 than resistance elements up the side of the train - how about making the aircon proper climate control and just having it blow in air of the specified temperature instead?

 

[Ethano92]

I'd rather a bigger duct with a flat top so I can put my foot on it - or surely we can find a better arrangement in 2019 than resistance elements up the side of the train - how about making the aircon proper climate control and just having it blow in air of the specified temperature instead?

Indeed that's why I don't mind the 700s, a flat top to rest your foot on, same as 455s. On 345s however the duct is curved and so you can't really.

No, 345s have longitudinal rails on the ceiling. I assume they're being fitted to the 701s but I'm not sure I see any mounts for them in the MRM image.

Of course, completely passed me.

Just out of interest, the black screens above the luggage racks near the doors, What are they? Let's also hope there are large bins like on 455s.