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Northern Ticket Machine Update Issues

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xotGD

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Good morning all. Apologies for radio silence from me on this for a few weeks. We are progressing some screen changes with the supplier, based on your feedback, and that of customers, stakeholders and staff. By the end of this week all 'quick select' screens (the first screen with the top 10 most commonly requested journey/ticket combo will be updated. We will also remove the reservation question, therefore reservations apply only to tickets where the condition is mandatory. Still lots more to do, and further updates to follow when I can confirm dates and changes.

Ian Borthwick
Retail Systems Manager, Northern Rail
Thank you Ian. I look forward to the improvements!
 
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SteveM70

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Will the 'Quick tickets' screen be full with 10 tickets at each station? Currently some only seem to have a couple of 'quick tickets' listed.

And will the list be reflective of the ticket machine location where possible (ie where there’s one on each platform of a simple two platform station, will the list for each machine reflect the direction of travel from that platform)?
 

Bletchleyite

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And will the list be reflective of the ticket machine location where possible (ie where there’s one on each platform of a simple two platform station, will the list for each machine reflect the direction of travel from that platform)?

I suppose logic would be that the machine decides itself based on the most commonly sold tickets from that specific machine.
 

SteveM70

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I suppose logic would be that the machine decides itself based on the most commonly sold tickets from that specific machine.

Over time that would make sense (if the code allows variation at machine rather than station level) but I presumed they’d need to be pre-populated as part of the setup process
 

Jozhua

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Good morning all. Apologies for radio silence from me on this for a few weeks. We are progressing some screen changes with the supplier, based on your feedback, and that of customers, stakeholders and staff. By the end of this week all 'quick select' screens (the first screen with the top 10 most commonly requested journey/ticket combo will be updated. We will also remove the reservation question, therefore reservations apply only to tickets where the condition is mandatory. Still lots more to do, and further updates to follow when I can confirm dates and changes.

Ian Borthwick
Retail Systems Manager, Northern Rail

Thank-you, I'm glad to know that changes and updates are being made to the machines. Hopefully we'll get to a point where both extra features and usability are top notch!

One of the big problems at the moment is touch registration/calibration, from my experience it doesn't seem to affect all of the machines - some are worse than others. Might be worth having a look at, Salford Crescent's seem to suffer from this quite badly.

Thank-you for engaging with the community, it means a lot!
 

30907

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Good morning all. Apologies for radio silence from me on this for a few weeks. We are progressing some screen changes with the supplier, based on your feedback, and that of customers, stakeholders and staff. By the end of this week all 'quick select' screens (the first screen with the top 10 most commonly requested journey/ticket combo will be updated. We will also remove the reservation question, therefore reservations apply only to tickets where the condition is mandatory. Still lots more to do, and further updates to follow when I can confirm dates and changes.

Ian Borthwick
Retail Systems Manager, Northern Rail
This morning at Saltaire (down side): had real issues getting the screen to respond to touch.
 

thejuggler

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Person in front of me unable to pay using card. The machines simply aren't fit for purpose.
 

DC2001

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Good morning all. Apologies for radio silence from me on this for a few weeks. We are progressing some screen changes with the supplier, based on your feedback, and that of customers, stakeholders and staff. By the end of this week all 'quick select' screens (the first screen with the top 10 most commonly requested journey/ticket combo will be updated. We will also remove the reservation question, therefore reservations apply only to tickets where the condition is mandatory. Still lots more to do, and further updates to follow when I can confirm dates and changes.

Ian Borthwick
Retail Systems Manager, Northern Rail
Is there any chance you can get the machines to print out a receipt confirming that no money has been taken from a customer if the transaction fails? Currently the machines either say try again or crash and reboot.
 

js517

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This was the TVM at Mytholmroyd, Leeds bound platform at 0940 this morning. Either the clock is wrong or its been stuck for a day and a half!


myt_lds_bound_tvm_24_10_2019.jpg
The attached image shows the TVM stuck on the payments screen and showing a time of 18:55 22-Oct-2019.
 

northernman

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Surely it shouldn’t be for you personally to do stuff like this following tip offs on an Internet forum? Do the machines not report back if they fail or “get stuck”?

Hi there, I was in the system at the time for another reason and happened to read the forum, it was quicker to reboot. I certainly haven't the time to sit and look at 600+ machines, nor a screen big enough :) Just doing my bit
 

DC2001

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Hi there, I was in the system at the time for another reason and happened to read the forum, it was quicker to reboot. I certainly haven't the time to sit and look at 600+ machines, nor a screen big enough :) Just doing my bit
Another 'tip off' here but the machine at Blackrod keeps producing card errors- quite a few people at the station say that they have had them recently; there could be a problem with the card reader.
 

Killingworth

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I would hope it would be possible to set a watchdog process to automatically reboot any machine that gets stuck!

A suggestion I made to Northern at least 2 or 3 years ago. Very many closures just require a reboot. Monitoring to see which machines are not active shouldn't be difficult, banks were able to do it with ATMs 30 years ago - although they often didn't either!
 

Seehof

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There is a well known airline who have a control room and staff dedicated to monitoring all their self service machines. They can see immediately if something goes wrong or gets stuck without anybody having to report it.
 

SteveM70

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Thanks I have rebooted it

The right hand machine on the Manchester platform at Hebden needs rebooting - screen has timed out and gone back to the homepage and screensaver but the card machine says present card £6.80
 

Bletchleyite

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Surely it shouldn’t be for you personally to do stuff like this following tip offs on an Internet forum? Do the machines not report back if they fail or “get stuck”?

If they don't should they perhaps have a prominent sticker on them saying "if this machine is broken text BROKEN MACHINE 123 to 12345" and we'll fix it" or similar? TOC customer services are often seen (rightly) as impenetrable, and this would be a very quick way of finding a reboot was needed, a bit like some TOCs have similar stickers for reporting faulty toilets.
 

Killingworth

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Prompted by new posts in this thread I've just checked Dore & Totley and, yes, the TVM has a new list of quick select options.

The most popular destinations for commuters are 44% Manchester, 22% Sheffield, comparative distances almost 40 miles and a little over 4 miles. Many of these users book online or use season tickets. Sheffield is the destination for about half of leisure users during the rest of the day and at weekends.

Maybe there's something missing on this screen, and note something else. Manchester anytime single appears twice. Sheffield return isn't there at all.
IMG_20191025_124754.jpg
 
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Bletchleyite

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One thing I don't get is why they are most popular *tickets*. Because the ticket required will vary by time of day, it would make more sense, as is the case on Shere machines, for it instead to be most popular *destinations*, with the ticket type selected after that.
 

Revaulx

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One thing I don't get is why they are most popular *tickets*. Because the ticket required will vary by time of day, it would make more sense, as is the case on Shere machines, for it instead to be most popular *destinations*, with the ticket type selected after that.
Indeed. Or if that isn't possible, at least group the different options together by destination.
 

30907

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One thing I don't get is why they are most popular *tickets*. Because the ticket required will vary by time of day, it would make more sense, as is the case on Shere machines, for it instead to be most popular *destinations*, with the ticket type selected after that.
It saves an additional press.
However, this particular example concerns me because it misleads: a normal traveller might assume that there are no
- return fares to Sheffield;
- offpeak day returns to Manchester
- offpeak fares to Leeds.
and pay for a higher priced ticket than necessary. I have, of course, cross-checked and know that the fares exist.
In principle the "10 best fares" screen is good, but if it can't show the correct options it needs scrapping, sorry.
(I realise the photo may have been taken after 0830 and before 0859, in which case not all these were available for immediate travel, but those 3 destinations alone have more than 10 basic fares. I would nip down to Saltaire and check there, but it's raining hard...)
 

Killingworth

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It saves an additional press.
However, this particular example concerns me because it misleads: a normal traveller might assume that there are no
- return fares to Sheffield;
- offpeak day returns to Manchester
- offpeak fares to Leeds.
and pay for a higher priced ticket than necessary. I have, of course, cross-checked and know that the fares exist.
In principle the "10 best fares" screen is good, but if it can't show the correct options it needs scrapping, sorry.
(I realise the photo may have been taken after 0830 and before 0859, in which case not all these were available for immediate travel, but those 3 destinations alone have more than 10 basic fares. I would nip down to Saltaire and check there, but it's raining hard...)

Taken at 7.22 and as far as I can tell the same display is shown all day (Note to self, I'll have to get back and check!!)

The big error is not having any return option for the nearest and most popular station, Sheffield, an indictment of the very poor service out of the city. However the complexity of all the options opening from the"other tickets" key delays new users for some time. Fortunately most stopping trains are late enough for most to get tickets after a little help from regular users - but that's another story..
 

Starmill

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One thing I don't get is why they are most popular *tickets*. Because the ticket required will vary by time of day, it would make more sense, as is the case on Shere machines, for it instead to be most popular *destinations*, with the ticket type selected after that.
I am pretty sure that this is just the way that Northern have always done it?
 

northernman

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A suggestion I made to Northern at least 2 or 3 years ago. Very many closures just require a reboot. Monitoring to see which machines are not active shouldn't be difficult, banks were able to do it with ATMs 30 years ago - although they often didn't either!


We do have that process, there is a system bug currently that sometimes prevents it, its fixed in the next software release which is imminent
 

northernman

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The right hand machine on the Manchester platform at Hebden needs rebooting - screen has timed out and gone back to the homepage and screensaver but the card machine says present card £6.80

All Hebden machines currently in full service :)
 

northernman

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If they don't should they perhaps have a prominent sticker on them saying "if this machine is broken text BROKEN MACHINE 123 to 12345" and we'll fix it" or similar? TOC customer services are often seen (rightly) as impenetrable, and this would be a very quick way of finding a reboot was needed, a bit like some TOCs have similar stickers for reporting faulty toilets.


Hi, I agree, there is a project currently being set up to do just that, linked to a barcode for ease of reporting
 

northernman

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Prompted by new posts in this thread I've just checked Dore & Totley and, yes, the TVM has a new list of quick select options.

The most popular destinations for commuters are 44% Manchester, 22% Sheffield, comparative distances almost 40 miles and a little over 4 miles. Many of these users book online or use season tickets. Sheffield is the destination for about half of leisure users during the rest of the day and at weekends.

Maybe there's something missing on this screen, and note something else. Manchester anytime single appears twice. Sheffield return isn't there at all.
View attachment 69801

Hi, there will be a further update to all machines in the next week
 
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