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Unfortunately-named locomotives?

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Calthrop

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A recent chance discovery for me (was never in childhood, a systematic "spotter"): there was a Jubilee class 4-6-0, number 45651, which bore the name Shovell. Presumably after the naval hero of some three centuries ago, Admiral Sir Cloudesley Shovell (wonderful name), who came to a sticky end on the Isles of Scilly in 1707.

I have to feel that this is not the happiest possible name to bestow on a coal-burning steam locomotive: calling up associations not so much of power and majesty; as of the fireman's most-used and most-familiar implement, and his exhausting and highly-dirty labours with it. It's my impression that the naming of steam locos (in the later steam era, more of a British thing than elsewhere in the world) -- after the fresh morning of the railways, when locos everywhere were most often named, frequently with glorious and random inspiration and individuality -- tended largely to become at best drearily assembly-line-ish-routine, at worst descending into the depths of bathos.

The London, Brighton & South Coast Railway comes in for considerable "stick" on this account -- for in the latter decades of its independence, relying heavily for naming of locos, on places served by its system (it was observed as unfortunate, for sure, that -- re any reaching-destination-fast image -- a loco came thus to carry the name Crawley). Yet further scraping the barrel, when the South of England was exhausted for naming purposes: the LBSC looked to Continental place-names -- whence the famous corny joke, referencing bemused passengers' taking the loco's name for the train's destination -- highly-confused old lady expostulating, "but I haven't got money to Berne !" Many of Britain's on-a-large-scale railways were to a greater or lesser extent in this boat, re loco-naming. I'm unable to be greatly impressed with much of our "Big Four" 's naming of locos: tendencies IMO toward endless mechanistic line-ups of dignitaries / stately residences / things martial or mercantile. The LNER's naming habits appeal to me the most: their love of the names of famous racehorses, accidentally giving rise to crazily poetic great variety; and of assortedly speedy wildlife; putting them in the main for me, above their rivals.

Would be interested to hear any thoughts about other perceivedly less-than-fortunate locomotive nomenclature (or defences of rail undertakings' naming-doings). I admit to not thinking the whole practice of giving names to locomotives, "all that much of a much", post-the exuberance and poetic wildness of the first decades: and naming of modern-traction motive power leaves me totally cold, as regards its being done at all; and most of the names hit on -- but "that's just me" -- all opinions, entitled-to...
 
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krus_aragon

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The LNWR, under John Ramsbottom, built a class of 2-2-2 express passenger engines, the first of which was No. 184 Problem. That doesn't sound very promising, and to a young ear I thought that this class must have had some teething issues like the later compound engines.

As it turns out, the name is mathematical in nature, as indicated by DX Goods engine No. 183's name Theorem.

The class of engine, though originally known as the Problem class, became better known as the Lady of the Lake class, after that engine was shown at the International Exhibition of 1862.
 

edwin_m

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The LNWR, under John Ramsbottom, built a class of 2-2-2 express passenger engines, the first of which was No. 184 Problem. That doesn't sound very promising, and to a young ear I thought that this class must have had some teething issues like the later compound engines.

As it turns out, the name is mathematical in nature, as indicated by DX Goods engine No. 183's name Theorem.

The class of engine, though originally known as the Problem class, became better known as the Lady of the Lake class, after that engine was shown at the International Exhibition of 1862.
The LNWR also had two locomotives named Experiment, probably not too reassuring to those who were hoping for a problem-free journey.

Some of the LNER racehorse names are distinctly odd to modern ears, not to mention the entire class named after types of antelope, collectively known as Bongos. Personally I've always considered a mallard to be something slow and waddling rather than fast and elegant.
 

ChiefPlanner

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"Gay Crusader" ? - LNER Pacific.

"Tishy" LNWR naming of a racehorse that crossed it's legs.
 

geoffk

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"Gay Crusader" ? - LNER Pacific.

"Tishy" LNWR naming of a racehorse that crossed it's legs.
The LNER also had Bongo and Pretty Polly; the NBR had Wandering Willie. Tishy was just a nickname AFAIK, not an official name.
 

Calthrop

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Names fraught with uncertainty -- as Problem and Experiment, mentioned -- would seem self-evidently, ones not to recommend. Among BR's Western class diesel-hydraulics -- I recall comments from that era that the names Western Explorer and Western Pathfinder, could be liable to give passengers the wrong and unsettling idea...

Some of the LNER racehorse names are distinctly odd to modern ears...

Odd perhaps, but colourful -- and haven't racehorse names always tended to be bizarre: from the sport's first beginnings, up to the present day? Another locos-called-after-racehorses delight for me: the names of a number of the "two-foot" gauge locos for the "internal" lines of the Dinorwic Quarries -- some marvellous ones: King of the Scarlets, Cackler, Rough Pup, Cloister, Holy War -- I long imagined the quarries having an arrangement for the dreaming-up of names, with some highly imaginative and not altogether sane local bard; then realised -- racehorse names ! (Any type of steam loco less racehorse-like than tiny narrow-gauge machines for shifting slate wagons around for short distances, would be hard to imagine.)

not to mention the entire class named after types of antelope, collectively known as Bongos.

I understand that not all commentators approved of the "antelope" names -- thinking that they sounded often undignified, sometimes downright goofy. I personally love this category of names; but I'm a self-confessed wildlife fan.

Personally I've always considered a mallard to be something slow and waddling rather than fast and elegant.

Some of the "bird" names for A4's were a bit raised-eyebrows that way, I feel. Ducks in flight can be graceful enough, I suppose... there were three other A4's named when entering service in 1938, after assorted species of duck; but after a short while, they were re-named after VIPs. Some questionable-for-express-locos A4 avian names, I feel -- Bittern (member of the heron family -- uncommon and shy and not a fast or graceful flyer); Guillemot (wonderfully agile in the water, but a weak flyer, and a clumsy walker on land); and Seagull and Herring Gull (nowadays calling up thoughts of "those cheeky wretches which, given half a chance, will steal your lunch"). I suspect that the LNER reckoned that the British -- being a nation of bird-lovers / wildfowl-shooters (the two not necessarily mutually exclusive) -- would be a pushover for bird names of almost any kind, for locos. The Great Northern of Ireland named its V class express 4-4-0s after fast-and-dashing birds of prey; but they had only five, to deal with; Eagle / Falcon / Merlin / Peregrine / Kestrel, fitted the bill nicely.

"Gay Crusader" ? - LNER Pacific.

If that loco were still around nowadays, I reckon that it would have had to be given a new name -- the name "as was" would of course not have had that "baggage" in the era of everyday steam.

The LNER also had Bongo and Pretty Polly; the NBR had Wandering Willie.

I'd imagine that if the loco Bongo were still around, the "goodthinkers" would be scandalised, seeing connotations of racialist ugliness: protesting that "it's the name of an antelope, dammit !" unlikely to cut any ice -- re-naming would have to happen. Wandering Willie belonged, I understand, to the NBR's class named after characters in Sir Walter Scott's novels: WW made a nice pair with its classmate Jingling Geordie (the character in the book so called, because he was a goldsmith). I like the idea of loco classes named after characters created by a particular author -- have the impression that it didn't happen very much, which is a pity -- if one is going to have a bunch of locos "thematically" named, I feel that this is a nice way to do it. The Southern did have the King Arthur class... You'd think that the Great Western, serving Stratford-on-Avon, could have had wonderful fun with characters from Shakespeare; but seemingly, that was never "how they rolled".
 

ChiefPlanner

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If that loco were still around nowadays, I reckon that it would have had to be given a new name -- the name "as was" would of course not have had that "baggage" in the era of everyday steam.

Quite - in the 1940's - "going gay" was an anti-austerity Britain term , to do with wearing bright clothes and having a nice time (something like a cup of tea and a quality biscuit !)

I think Dinorwic had a loco called "The Coalition" - which one I wonder ?
 

Calthrop

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If that loco were still around nowadays, I reckon that it would have had to be given a new name -- the name "as was" would of course not have had that "baggage" in the era of everyday steam.

Quite - in the 1940's - "going gay" was an anti-austerity Britain term , to do with wearing bright clothes and having a nice time (something like a cup of tea and a quality biscuit !)

I think Dinorwic had a loco called "The Coalition" - which one I wonder ?

Without looking up to try to verify: I recall reading of one of the slate quarries in the Blaenau Ffestiniog area which among its shunting motive power for its internal 1ft 11-and-a-half in. gauge lines connecting with the Ffestiniog Railway; had for a time anyhow, a (non-steam) loco cobbled together from various parts of other locos of more than one propulsion system -- because this machine was such a mixture, they christened it The Coalition. Llechwedd comes to mind, but may very well not be right. IIRC, the quarry concerned, introduced overhead electrification on its internal lines; and The Coalition as it emerged, was an electric loco.
 

geoffk

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You'd think that the Great Western, serving Stratford-on-Avon, could have had wonderful fun with characters from Shakespeare; but seemingly, that was never "how they rolled".
Yes a good point. The GWR did use names from Scott novels on some of their Saint class, which you would think inappropriate. One was named "Bride of Lammermoor", the same person commemorated by the LNER D11 "Lucy Ashton".
 

Calthrop

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I'd been musing on there not being all that many British authors / dramatists who created characters in significant numbers, and who were closely identified with a particular area of the country -- thus suitable for particular-loco-class names, for old-time railway companies; but found more coming to mind, than I'd been envisaging -- albeit it mostly didn't happen. Thomas Hardy's novels would have been a "natural" for the LSWR; but it didn't come about. Likewise, LSWR could if they'd wanted to, have appropriated Jane Austen, in the light of the locations where she spent most of her life. Dickens focused largely on London and the south-east of England; I recall C. Hamilton Ellis remarking in passing, that it might have been nice if the South Eastern & Chatham Railway and / or its earlier components, had had a "Dickens" class -- plenty of grand names available, from characters of his. The North Staffordshire Railway could have had Arnold Bennett; the Midland and the Lancashire & Yorkshire, could have fought over the Brontes (their useless brother Branwell worked for a time as a clerk for the L&Y).

Robert Burns came up with some memorable characters in his verse: could have been a gift to the Glasgow & South Western, or maybe the Caledonian, if they'd wished to explore that avenue. If the North British hadn't had Scott: they'd have had, begging to be used for loco-naming, a whole host of splendidly-named heroes and villains from numerous Border ballads. Somehow, though, little of this kind of stuff was ever done.
 
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Cowley

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I’m sure that more than a few people walked past 50046 in the 1980s and wondered why it was named after a mildly abrasive cleaning fluid...
 

AM9

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Give the individual's involvement in the railway's publicity in the '70s, I imagine that there was great relief that nobody had named a loco 'Sir Jimmy Saville'.
 
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Steamysandy

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I think it was Hamilton Ellis who told the story of Sir Geoffrey(?) Cust who was a courtier in the Edwardian court but who fell foul of the LNWR.The Royal Train would be changing locos at Crewe and Cust would be out to see the new locos backing down.
Sure enough he was there and the first loco was Sir Geoffrey Cust so he was really chuffed then he saw the name of the pilot loco--- Vindictive!
 

Cowley

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I think it was Hamilton Ellis who told the story of Sir Geoffrey(?) Cust who was a courtier in the Edwardian court but who fell foul of the LNWR.The Royal Train would be changing locos at Crewe and Cust would be out to see the new locos backing down.
Sure enough he was there and the first loco was Sir Geoffrey Cust so he was really chuffed then he saw the name of the pilot loco--- Vindictive!
I wondered where you were going with that for a minute.
 

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On the subject of Wandering Willie, when the A4 Great Snipe was renamed William Whitelaw in 1941 after the former LNER chairman he is said to have joked that he now had three locomotives named after him - the other two being the Scott class 4-4-0 Wandering Willie and the J36 class 0-6-0 Ole Bill.
 

Taunton

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I suspect that the LNER reckoned that the British -- being a nation of bird-lovers / wildfowl-shooters (the two not necessarily mutually exclusive) -- would be a pushover for bird names of almost any kind, for locos.
Gresley was a considerable amateur ornithologist in his spare time.
 
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Guillemots aren’t the worst flyers. Not graceful, but actually pretty quick as they need to flap hard to keep in the air. Now Great Auk would have been something different.
 

Peter C

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I’m sure that more than a few people walked past 50046 in the 1980s and wondered why it was named after a mildly abrasive cleaning fluid...
There was also a steam engine with the same name... I think. I only know this after looking through the Hornby catalogue, though! :D
I never really understood why 50046 was Ajax, though....

-Peter
 

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BR named some AC locos after cities that those locos could never visit under their own power because they were not electrified at the time e.g. 86208 "City of Chester" and 86210 "City of Edinburgh". This always struck me as an odd naming policy!
 

xotGD

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There was also a steam engine with the same name... I think. I only know this after looking through the Hornby catalogue, though! :D
I never really understood why 50046 was Ajax, though....

-Peter
I never did get to see its classmate Feyenoord. Though why British locos were named after Dutch football teams baffles me.
 

Taunton

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A number of railways had locomotives which in 1914 were named after German etc royalty. These were removed quite rapidly.

Quite a number of the pre-grouping railways had names from Classical History, presumably because the senior engineers had been to traditional schools where Latin and Ancient Greek were the principal subjects.

The LNWR had the most extraordinary collection of names for its locomotives, to no apparent pattern either. It was common then for loco classes to be known, not by a class code or number series, but by the name of the first of the type. Thus Problem, referred to above, was not just an individual loco name but that of a whole class. Mills, in his 1960s comedy railway book (one of very few ever done, and the very best) "4ft 8½ And All That" has a cartoon of the Crewe works naming department thinking up all the improbable names.
 

chorleyjeff

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Royal Ulster Rifelman at Holyhead on the Irish Mail, especially with the President of Ireland as a passenger.
 

randyrippley

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I’m sure that more than a few people walked past 50046 in the 1980s and wondered why it was named after a mildly abrasive cleaning fluid...


there's the theory that 50007 became "Elgar" because the only extant warship named "Hercules" was Argentinian
 

geoffk

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there's the theory that 50007 became "Elgar" because the only extant warship named "Hercules" was Argentinian
Considering the link between music and railways, it's surprising that composers never featured as a class theme until the class 92s came along and these, in view of their intended work, mostly took the names of European composers (and writers). There were two steam locos named Sir Edward Elgar (a Bulldog and a Castle) but never a Henry Purcell, Ralph Vaughan Williams or Sir William Walton.
 

sprinterguy

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Give the individual's involvement in the railway's publicity in the '70s, I imagine that there was great relief that nobody had named a loco 'Sir Jimmy Saville'.
Pete Waterman was minded to name 47712 precisely that when he owned several of the class in the mid nineties.
 

Temple Meads

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Give the individual's involvement in the railway's publicity in the '70s, I imagine that there was great relief that nobody had named a loco 'Sir Jimmy Saville'.
He did perform the naming ceremony when 43002 became 'Top of the Pops' though.
 
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