ASLEF Subs

[Red1980]

I pay them to represent me, if I chose not to support the Labour Party, so be it. I’m gonna put my head above the parapet here and say I don’t even agree with a lot of what unions do.

Same here.

A lot of the time it's not what they do it's the way they do things that is the problem.

 

[MuckyFingers]

It's become a labour party mouthpiece and if I wanted to join the Labour Party I would have. I did not join the union to join it by proxy.
And what I take exception to is being told otherwise by members of the union

spot on. i do not want to have Palestine rammed down my throat either.

 

[Eccles1983]

So you want all the protections that the lobbying fund (that's what it is in effect, the political name is forced on it by goverment rules) but don't want to fund the bit that does the lobbying. Good to know when the right leaning parties come and destroy most of them protections who I can blame for it.

Trade unions and labour have been joined at the hip since its creation.

 

[yorkie]

I don't see why people join unions if they can't support its aims.

The political fund is one of the most important funds in it. How do you think the Union got so much influence and power?

I'm sorry, but it's a union that has political ambitions and thoughts. To opt out of its main fund is bizarre, and I would question any trade union member who thinks that way.

It's a perfectly normal thing to do to join a Union for representation and not to want to have anything to do with (in some cases, extremist) political stuff.

You are welcome to question how I think but I am equally entitled to question how you think

 

[theblackwatch]

Anyone checked next year's diary? January has some days missing in a colleagues diary, no Thurs, Sat or Sun at the end of the month. Not checked mine so don't know if they're all the same

View attachment 70700

Perhaps a strike is planned on those days?

 

[Gemz91]

I don't see why people join unions if they can't support its aims.

The political fund is one of the most important funds in it. How do you think the Union got so much influence and power?

I'm sorry, but it's a union that has political ambitions and thoughts. To opt out of its main fund is bizarre, and I would question any trade union member who thinks that way.

In that case, I will be ringing ASLEF up on Monday morning and with-drawing my membership from them. I'll continue to reap the benefit's of the union such as the pay raises they negotiate and the terms and conditions. If I need any representation I will represent myself.

Such a noble action of you Labour supporters to be happy to pay for us non Labour supporters (although former Labour) to fight for our pay raises and protection of terms and conditions.

I'll also be sure to tell my Tory supporting union rep the same.

Thanks on behalf of all non Labour supporting train drivers.

 

[greatkingrat]

I don't see why people join unions if they can't support its aims.

The political fund is one of the most important funds in it. How do you think the Union got so much influence and power?

I'm sorry, but it's a union that has political ambitions and thoughts. To opt out of its main fund is bizarre, and I would question any trade union member who thinks that way.

It is not the "main fund". Roughly 4% of your subscription goes into the political fund - despite what the ASLEF Journal would have you believe, it is a tiny part of their work.

The problem with the politics side of the union is that only a small minority of members are interested enough to attend branch meetings, submit motions, get elected as conference delegates etc and those that do aren't necessarily representative of the membership as a whole. It would be interesting to do a poll of ASLEF members for the coming general election - I suspect there would be a small majority for Labour, but it would be a lot closer than you might think.

 

[4F89]

It is not the "main fund". Roughly 4% of your subscription goes into the political fund - despite what the ASLEF Journal would have you believe, it is a tiny part of their work.

The problem with the politics side of the union is that only a small minority of members are interested enough to attend branch meetings, submit motions, get elected as conference delegates etc and those that do aren't necessarily representative of the membership as a whole. It would be interesting to do a poll of ASLEF members for the coming general election - I suspect there would be a small majority for Labour, but it would be a lot closer than you might think.

I know few labour supporting drivers tbh. More are to the right.

 

[dk1]

I know few labour supporting drivers tbh. More are to the right.

Very true. As said earlier in the thread, union is seen by many merely as insurance.

 

[Red1980]

I've never understood why some see it as a negative and criticize when people openly admit their union membership is nothing more than an insurance policy really.

 

[dk1]

I've never understood why some see it as a negative and criticize when people openly admit their union membership is nothing more than an insurance policy really.

As long as I pay my money my political choice is my business. They'll need more than good luck to change my opinions

 

[Red1980]

As long as I pay my money my political choice is my business. They'll need more than good luck to change my opinions

Ha exactly.

I've never been to a branch meeting in 5 years and long may that continue ha!

 

[dk1]

Ha exactly.

I've never been to a branch meeting in 5 years and long may that continue ha!

Or me in twenty. I have full respect for those that do & show such commitment & enthusiasm but it's just not my bag.

 

[ComUtoR]

When I first started we had 4 people turn up to a branch meeting. When I took over as Branch Secretary I managed to push that to around 17. No idea how many there are now, Not been for a few years either.

 

[FrankOwen]

It's true that there's plenty of right wing train drivers that believe that they have earned the superb terms that they enjoy, forgetting the decades of trade union activism.
They're going to be in for a shock when Johnson wins the GE, because between him, Javid and the right wing press there's going to be a sustained attack on the unions when the promised sunlit uplands of brexit don't materialise it'll be back to blaming single mothers, immigrants and the trade union movement.

 

[Red1980]

Or me in twenty. I have full respect for those that do & show such commitment & enthusiasm but it's just not my bag.

Oh most definitely. I'll never slate those that do go and I've nothing but respect for those that push to ensure we have the best working environment possible as I'm sure it's an extremely stressful and almost thankless task. I just prefer to stay out of the way and just contact them if necessary.

My only beef is with those who feel that just because I pay my subs I really should be a "union man" and believe in EVERYTHING they do and agree with all their methods.

Nah some of the most childish and frankly pathetic behaviour has come from unions . (not just ASLEF btw) Don't get me wrong I appreciate what they're fighting for It's just I've seen people at local level act extremely selfishly to ensure themselves and a few others are looked after and not really consider the rest. It's hard to want to get involved on a deeper level when that's what you're up against.

 

[4F89]

It's true that there's plenty of right wing train drivers that believe that they have earned the superb terms that they enjoy, forgetting the decades of trade union activism.
They're going to be in for a shock when Johnson wins the GE, because between him, Javid and the right wing press there's going to be a sustained attack on the unions when the promised sunlit uplands of brexit don't materialise it'll be back to blaming single mothers, immigrants and the trade union movement.

How does that work out? A renationalised railway will see wages be as crap as they were under BR. For that one reason it's enough for me not to vote labour. And there are plenty of other reasons besides.

 

[387star]

It's true that there's plenty of right wing train drivers that believe that they have earned the superb terms that they enjoy, forgetting the decades of trade union activism.
They're going to be in for a shock when Johnson wins the GE, because between him, Javid and the right wing press there's going to be a sustained attack on the unions when the promised sunlit uplands of brexit don't materialise it'll be back to blaming single mothers, immigrants and the trade union movement.

Agree! Labour are on the rail worker's side

 

[sw1ller]

Cake and eat it comes to mind. I stand with @Eccles1983 on this one. I think it’s a sad situation the world we live in today.

 

[Stigy]

Cake and eat it comes to mind. I stand with @Eccles1983 on this one. I think it’s a sad situation the world we live in today.

It’s not enough that we pay for their services? Each to their own. I won’t be bullied in to supporting any particular political party in the same way I wouldn’t be bullied in to participating in industrial action if I didn’t agree with the the rationale.

 

[tiptoptaff]

It’s not enough that we pay for their services? Each to their own. I won’t be bullied in to supporting any particular political party in the same way I wouldn’t be bullied in to participating in industrial action if I didn’t agree with the the rationale.

Agreed. I pay more than enough to them to take advantage of the protection they provide without having to have the slightest bit of interest in their political aims and I certainly pay more than enough to disagree with their political stance if I so wish!!

 

[Salesy]

Out of interest, how many on the railways are not members of any union?

Do they tend to be ostracised for not being a union member?

Are they labelled ‘scabs’ when the union members strike and they don’t?

I’m just asking out of interest. I’m trying to get a job on the railways but I’ve never been a union person (that’s not knocking those that are, each to their own and all that).

 

[sw1ller]

It’s not enough that we pay for their services? Each to their own. I won’t be bullied in to supporting any particular political party in the same way I wouldn’t be bullied in to participating in industrial action if I didn’t agree with the the rationale.

Id never bully anyone into supporting a particular party. But I see a difference in paying for insurance and paying into a union. You may not but I do.

Agreed. I pay more than enough to them to take advantage of the protection they provide without having to have the slightest bit of interest in their political aims and I certainly pay more than enough to disagree with their political stance if I so wish!!

Yeah, cake and eat it. That’s what I said.

Out of interest, how many on the railways are not members of any union?

Do they tend to be ostracised for not being a union member?

Are they labelled ‘scabs’ when the union members strike and they don’t?

I’m just asking out of interest. I’m trying to get a job on the railways but I’ve never been a union person (that’s not knocking those that are, each to their own and all that).

Absolutely, yeah.

 

[tiptoptaff]

The union is there to represent me and my interests, not I to represent it's!

 

[Salesy]

Id never bully anyone into supporting a particular party. But I see a difference in paying for insurance and paying into a union. You may not but I do.


Yeah, cake and eat it. That’s what I said.


Absolutely, yeah.

Isn’t labelling non-striking workers ‘scabs’ a form of bullying?

I can understand the differing viewpoints and and why union members might feel frustrated but does that justify name-calling and ostracism?

 

[ComUtoR]

Absolutely, yeah.

If you are an ASLEF member and promote their ideals; I would remind you about 'Mind the Gag'. You might want to read the pledges.

 

[JetStream]

I'll restart my political fund contribution when the RMT stop sending out such cringeworthy magazines (despite having asked them twice to stop sending me them), spamming me with (arguably) illegal text messages as you can't unsubscribe from them to my knowledge, and being passionately anti-EU, which when(?) we get a Tory Government, will only screw us over.

 

[Red1980]

Id never bully anyone into supporting a particular party. But I see a difference in paying for insurance and paying into a union. You may not but I do.

As others have said......I pay enough towards their annual golf and booze excursions to feel no guilt about using them as a form of insurance.



Yeah, cake and eat it. That’s what I said.


Absolutely, yeah.

Id never bully anyone into supporting a particular party. But I see a difference in paying for insurance and paying into a union. You may not but I do.


Yeah, cake and eat it. That’s what I said.


Absolutely, yeah.

I'll certainly feel no guilt about "having my cake and eating it". The amount of contributions I've made towards the unions annual golf and booze weekends (which no doubt involved lots of cake) I feel I've earned the right to decide what to believe in and not have that decided for me.

 

[EBlackadder]

Privatisation began in 1994 and ended in 1997. Since then we have had 13 years of Labour, 5 years of Coalition and 7 years of Conservative Government.

Since privatisation - particularly over the past decade - driver pay has substantially increased; drivers at the highest paying TOCs are now in the top 10% of earners - with a bit of overtime we're pushing into the fabled 5%. Hand in hand with this we've seen T&Cs either maintained or improved, be it our pensions, working week, or various other allowances.

The overwhelming majority of these increases have been...under coalition or Conservative governments.

It does beg the question what political influence are we actually buying with our 'sponsored' Labour MPs? In reality, of course, the answer is close to none. Indeed, the chair of the ASLEF 'group', Kelvin Hopkins, is not standing for re-election and I'm not even convinced ASLEF itself puts too much emphasis on its Parliamentary influence, as one of the MPs listed on the website as being part of the group, Dave Anderson, stood down in 2017.

The excellent pay and T&Cs we enjoy is because the Union knows the industry; it knows how and most importantly when to squeeze management to extract the most generous terms for its members, as well as promote the role as a highly skilled and professional one, deserving of recognition as such. This is nothing to do with Parliamentary influence, and all to do with the work put in by front-line reps.

I'll happily pay whatever I do to fund the work ASLEF puts in for me and my colleagues. I would consider industrial action in suitable circumstances. I have no interest whatsoever in propping up the Labour Party.

 

[Eccles1983]

A lot of you are putting "me" at the forefront.

A union is a collective, it's not what the union does for you - it's what it does for us.

That's the crux of it. Far too many "me me me" yet when the boot of the man or management comes at "me" then they are fast enough to run to the reps to demand "we" do something about it.

I'm ashamed of many of the grade due to the amount of selfish people in it.

Happy to take the protection but won't do anything to assist the union.

If it all goes to pot and the trade union movement gets banned out if relevance I know where I will point my anger.

I've seen 3 different MP's at branch meetings. I've also seen the work the Union does at conference. To say it doesn't "buy" influence is frankly misguided.

I don't agree with all political activities of the union. But if I thought it was "just insurance" then moralistically I couldn't look myself in the face by just going along with it. I would like anyone with integrity leave the union and use the subs to buy personal indemnity insurance.

But then again, I'm not a leech.