Through passenger train speeds at Swindon and Reading

[jazzy]

Now that these stations are soon to see scheduled passenger services passing through without stopping, what speed can these services pass through at? I assume there are quite low speed restrictions at these stations...

Thanks

 

[swt_passenger]

Swindon down main is 85 mph.
Reading P9/10 are 95 mph both ways.
Neither of these speeds are necessarily to do with passengers on platforms, it is permitted to pass open platforms at up to 125 mph, provided the necessary warning signs and yellow lines are in place...

 

[pdeaves]

There has been a non-stop train through Reading for ages (circa 0900 arrival at Paddington). It appears to pass through around 50mph (my estimate from observation with no speed detection machinery!). However, that may be a limitation on the timetable; from the timetable change it could be much faster.

 

[jazzy]

Swindon down main is 85 mph.
Reading P9/10 are 95 mph both ways.
Neither of these speeds are necessarily to do with passengers on platforms, it is permitted to pass open platforms at up to 125 mph, provided the necessary warning signs and yellow lines are in place...

Yes, I've been waiting for trains at Slough when HSTs have come through at full pelt, it was bracing to say the least...

Thanks for the reply...

 

[Elecman]

Platform 6 at Milton Keynes is very interesting when they pass through at 125mph as the platform I’d quite narrow in places

 

[Meerkat]

Must be bum clenching for the poor drivers

 

[DidcotDickie]

Can't speak for Swindon but I've caught 1G60 1742 from Padd to Cheltenham which is first stop Didcot a number of times. This goes through plat 9 at Reading at a good 80+mph. I think that the drivers don't hammer it any faster through Reading as they usually catch up 1C24 17:30 Padd to Taunton (which stops at Reading) by the time they approach Didcot.

I can't see any issue with fast non-stop trains through Reading other than it will become regular during the day with the new timetable. HSTs (now succeeded by IETs) have been hurtling through platforms 1 and 2 at Didcot at 125mph since 1976.

 

[brad465]

Swindon down main is 85 mph.
Reading P9/10 are 95 mph both ways.
Neither of these speeds are necessarily to do with passengers on platforms, it is permitted to pass open platforms at up to 125 mph, provided the necessary warning signs and yellow lines are in place...

Is the Swindon up main not 85mph as well? I recall there is a 40/85mph dual speed somewhere (not that it matters to passenger trains much).

 

[Peter C]

HSTs (now succeeded by IETs) have been hurtling through platforms 1 and 2 at Didcot at 125mph since 1976.

I can confirm this happens and it probably scares the equivalent of a train's worth of people every time!

-Peter

 

[swt_passenger]

Is the Swindon up main not 85mph as well? I recall there is a 40/85mph dual speed somewhere (not that it matters to passenger trains much).

It is, but I thought in the context of this question non-stopping up main line trains don’t go past the platform?

 

[jazzy]

It is, but I thought in the context of this question non-stopping up main line trains don’t go past the platform?

My original question didn’t really concern whether the non-stopping trains went past platforms or not. I just thought these stations would have quite slow speed limits generally but apparently I was wrong!

 

[class ep-09]

At Reading, you can also consider platforms 7,8,11,12,13,14 and 15 as through platforms.
7,8.11 -50mph, 12,15-40mph , 13,14- 30mph ( not sure it might be 40mph). Some freight and ECS moves “fly” through them.

 

[Taunton]

Yes, I've been waiting for trains at Slough when HSTs have come through at full pelt, it was bracing to say the least...

I've written here before about the situation at Slough, where since the introduction of barriers large crowds can form on the Down Main platform waiting to get out of the station, particularly if a Windsor and one or possibly both Relief line services happen to arrive together. The crowds can spill out across the Down Main Yellow Line, and then every few minutes an express comes along at 125mph ... There need to be extra platform staff just to manage this. The barriers incidentally are not in the building but have been built out as pens onto the already none-too-wide platform.

I'm aware that the station building there is a historic listed structure (probably the only one that Slough town runs to), but whoever did the risk assessment of this arrangement needs to have another serious think.

 

[alxndr]

Is the Swindon up main not 85mph as well? I recall there is a 40/85mph dual speed somewhere (not that it matters to passenger trains much).

Both Up Main and Down Main at Swindon are indeed 40/85mph.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've written here before about the situation at Slough, where since the introduction of barriers large crowds can form on the Down Main platform waiting to get out of the station, particularly if a Windsor and one or possibly both Relief line services happen to arrive together. The crowds can spill out across the Down Main Yellow Line, and then every few minutes an express comes along at 125mph ... There need to be extra platform staff just to manage this. The barriers incidentally are not in the building but have been built out as pens onto the already none-too-wide platform.

I'm aware that the station building there is a historic listed structure (probably the only one that Slough town runs to), but whoever did the risk assessment of this arrangement needs to have another serious think.

The late Paul Corfield (who posted here as plcd1) reckoned that many barrier lines on NR stations were flawed in this way.

 

[Mintona]

Must be bum clenching for the poor drivers

I wouldn’t go that far

 

[driver9000]

Must be bum clenching for the poor drivers

Not really.....

 

[Meerkat]

Do you not get a bit anxious blatting it through a busy platform with people ambling gormlessly about?

 

[MarkyT]

Platforms #9 (DM) and #10 (UM) at Reading allow speeds of 80/HST95 and 85/HST95 respectively today, although the new remodelled track geometry is apparently suitable for even higher speeds in the future if desired. Signalling is the limitation today, particularly signal spacing to allow 'closing up' of the majority stopping service on the Main (fast) lines, but future cab signalling should be able to allow an increase in through speed while maintaining the close-following capability for stopping trains.

 

[Taunton]

It seems the old Reading signalling had been optimised for non-stops, and was less efficient where close sequences of trains all stopped. So when the station was rebuilt, the new signalling was optimised for closing up fast trains stopping - just in time to reinstate regular nonstops.

 

[ExRes]

Do you not get a bit anxious blatting it through a busy platform with people ambling gormlessly about?

If that was the case then there would be very few train drivers around, basically you ignore it/them or apply for a non driving job

 

[30907]

It seems the old Reading signalling had been optimised for non-stops, and was less efficient where close sequences of trains all stopped. So when the station was rebuilt, the new signalling was optimised for closing up fast trains stopping - just in time to reinstate regular nonstops.

...which are in the minority by a long way.

 

[43066]

Do you not get a bit anxious blatting it through a busy platform with people ambling gormlessly about?

Most drivers who work high speed services quickly become very used to passing crowded platforms at speed. Most will blow up if a platform is unusually busy, or if people are standing closer to the edge than normal.

Ultimately there is nothing else they can do!

Certain stations have a bad reputation, clearly Slough and Didcot are two of these. Away from GWR, St Albans is notorious. The up fast platform is narrow, on the inside of a tight curve and is out of sight until the last second, 100mph linespeed. This situation has been made worse recently now that the up fast platform is served by so many Thameslink services in addition to EMR trains banging through at line speed.

Many stations get round the problem by having barriers preventing access to the fast platforms where these are little used by stopping services - Wimbledon for example.

 

[Hadders]

Line speed at Stevenage on the fasts is 125mph. Trains often go through at full speed in the evening peak as a 12 car Thameslink train empties out on the other side of the platform island.

 

[Bald Rick]

Certain stations have a bad reputation, clearly Slough and Didcot are two of these. Away from GWR, St Albans is notorious. The up fast platform is narrow, on the inside of a tight curve and is out of sight until the last second, 100mph linespeed. This situation has been made worse recently now that the up fast platform is served by so many Thameslink services in addition to EMR trains banging through at line speed.

St Albans is indeed notorious. However I wouldn’t say that it has been made worse by ‘so many’ Thameslink services. Indeed the number of of trains calling on the UF platform (3) in the morning peak has actually been reduced since last May. However the trains have more people on them.

What’s worse is when a down ‘fast’ train calls in the down slow platform (2), which usually occurs during disruption. A train disgorging 7-800 people, sometimes even 1000, on to that platform, with one egress to the footbridge, means it can take 5-7 minutes to clear the platform, and many people end up on the wrong side of the yellow line on the UF platform (3). That’s when the platform is at its most crowded, and when the guys with megaphones are out.

 

[43066]

St Albans is indeed notorious. However I wouldn’t say that it has been made worse by ‘so many’ Thameslink services. Indeed the number of of trains calling on the UF platform (3) in the morning peak has actually been reduced since last May. However the trains have more people on them.

What’s worse is when a down ‘fast’ train calls in the down slow platform (2), which usually occurs during disruption. A train disgorging 7-800 people, sometimes even 1000, on to that platform, with one egress to the footbridge, means it can take 5-7 minutes to clear the platform, and many people end up on the wrong side of the yellow line on the UF platform (3). That’s when the platform is at its most crowded, and when the guys with megaphones are out.

Thanks for the correction on that.

Radlett can be bad for that reason too in the evening peak - people get off a down TL on the down slow, spread out over the platform island and seem oblivious to the 125mph trains approaching on the up fast.

Are more Thameslinks timetabled to be on the fasts (both Am and Pm peak) following the next timetable change? (conscious this is off topic for the thread title - apologies)

Cheers.

 

[Horizon22]

St Albans is indeed notorious. However I wouldn’t say that it has been made worse by ‘so many’ Thameslink services. Indeed the number of of trains calling on the UF platform (3) in the morning peak has actually been reduced since last May. However the trains have more people on them.

What’s worse is when a down ‘fast’ train calls in the down slow platform (2), which usually occurs during disruption. A train disgorging 7-800 people, sometimes even 1000, on to that platform, with one egress to the footbridge, means it can take 5-7 minutes to clear the platform, and many people end up on the wrong side of the yellow line on the UF platform (3). That’s when the platform is at its most crowded, and when the guys with megaphones are out.

Having lived in St Albans for a while a couple of years back, it was infuriatingly slow. Good thing the station remodelling work is progressing as I'm sure GTR and local staff have noticed this getting increasingly worse over the past 5 years with passenger growth at the station.

 

[Taunton]

Platforms #9 (DM) and #10 (UM) at Reading allow speeds of 80/HST95 and 85/HST95 respectively today, although the new remodelled track geometry is apparently suitable for even higher speeds in the future if desired. Signalling is the limitation today,

I seem to remember that when 125mph HSTs were introduced in 1976 there was amused comment about there being a "speed restriction" to 100mph through Reading.

 

[Meerkat]

Most drivers who work high speed services quickly become very used to passing crowded platforms at speed. Most will blow up if a platform is unusually busy, or if people are standing closer to the edge than normal.

Ultimately there is nothing else they can do!

fair enough, you guys have to get used to it as you say. Though as a car commuter I used to whizz (relatively) through a very narrow two way bit between buildings, knowing I would fit as I always did....but that didn’t stop a panicky clench every time (and that nonsensical pulling in the elbows!!). I am instinctively pessimistic though!
I don’t know how train drivers get through the first few after suffering a fatality though. Mentally very tough.

Quite surprised that the ORR haven’t got fussy about it yet. All the palaver about unlikely contact with a pantograph horn yet not bothered by trains blatting past crowded platforms. Are the container trains worse - they seem to have more suction, which is more concerning

 

[Bald Rick]

Thanks for the correction on that.

Radlett can be bad for that reason too in the evening peak - people get off a down TL on the down slow, spread out over the platform island and seem oblivious to the 125mph trains approaching on the up fast.

Are more Thameslinks timetabled to be on the fasts (both Am and Pm peak) following the next timetable change? (conscious this is off topic for the thread title - apologies)

Cheers.

No, the TL timetable is effectively in its final state. There will, of course, be more non stopping trains when EMR go up to 6tph.

Having lived in St Albans for a while a couple of years back, it was infuriatingly slow. Good thing the station remodelling work is progressing as I'm sure GTR and local staff have noticed this getting increasingly worse over the past 5 years with passenger growth at the station.

The station remodelling work is supposed to include a second footbridge, but there is no sign of progress on that. It was a franchise commitment IIRC.