LNR new WCML timetable, May 2019 (in open data feeds)

[Merle Haggard]

Of course not - that would be useful and LNR don't do 'useful'. They do 'inept' remarkably well though.

Thanks for that confirmation. I am not the greatest fan of VWC but I can go to their site and there's a list of all their cancelled trains (and, recently, it's been a long list!) and also the service alterations (special stops, for instance) to ameliorate the inconvenience. Of course, LNR never add in any calls to cover for cancelled trains; quite the reverse.
I looked on NRES yesterday for today's 'service'; it showed every timetabled train from Northampton, and against each one was a triangle with an exclamation mark inside. When I clicked on this it said that LNR will be operating an emergency timetable.
But details of the emergency timetable itself were nowhere to be found...
'Inept' is too kind...

 

[Merle Haggard]

A couple of reasons in my opinion: firstly, Brexit and the constantly changing political landscape has pushed everything else down the agenda; secondly, this is far from the first franchisee to fail to provide a proper service in the recent past. I remember that in one of Douglas Adams' novels, the first spaceship to land provoked International hysteria, but the second barely made the local news....!

Thank you for the observation, and it certainly makes sense.
There is another aspect, though. The Southern carries a lot of commuters, who may possibly be vocal. I know that LNR also carries commuters, but take the example of Northampton. Although it has a population of ca 200,000, railway usage is not high; I live in a comparatively affluent district there, and none of my neighbours ever travels by train. Even when they need to travel to one of the few places well served by train from Northampton, they reject any suggestion from me to do other than drive (almost all have more than one car). In effect, for a large proportion of the population here the train is, I'm sorry to say, totally irrelevant and even total closure of Northampton station would not be seen as worthy of comment let alone newsworthy. So possibly news only follows interest.
P.S. Douglas Adams was a genius. He invented Google before Google did and tablets before Apple did - the Hitchhikers Guide hand held device to answer any question! And it seemed all so far-fetched when we first listened to that radio programme...

 

[RealTrains07]

December timetable changes have officially been announced today.

1 noticeable change is the removal of the 323s from the wolves - rugeley service and just running 350s

 

[Bletchleyite]

Who bets they will make barely any difference?

 

[DavidGrain]

December timetable changes have officially been announced today.

1 noticeable change is the removal of the 323s from the wolves - rugeley service and just running 350s

Does this mean that there will be more 6 car trains on the Cross City Line?

 

[RealTrains07]

Does this mean that there will be more 6 car trains on the Cross City Line?

Not sure iam going by how LNR have worded it on the website

 

[RealTrains07]

Would be a good idea to check but in summary:

Liverpool:
- direct london services on sunday via birmingham

Crewe via Stoke:
- sunday service extended to coventry
- early morning weekday services extend to walsall

Crewe via Nuneaton:
- no change except more 8 car services

Northampton:
- some Faster weekday services
- adding extra carriage to busy services

Tring:
- no major changes except adding extra carriages to 2 services

Rugeley via Birmingham/Walsall:
- Instead of 2 trains from london every hour, 1 will start from Wolvehampton
- All trains will become 4 car
- direct services to birmingham international/coventry on sundays will be cut

Think i have covered all main routes
If you want individual stations search here:
https://www.londonnorthwesternrailw...source=dotmailer&dm_i=4TA0,95JY,2UFWQ9,YLN8,1

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Would be a good idea to check but in summary:

Liverpool:
- direct london services on sunday via birmingham

Crewe via Stoke:
- sunday service extended to coventry
- early morning weekday services extend to walsall

Crewe via Nuneaton:
- no change except more 8 car services

Northampton:
- some Faster weekday services
- adding extra carriage to busy services

Tring:
- no major changes except adding extra carriages to 2 services

Rugeley via Birmingham/Walsall:
- Instead of 2 trains from london every hour, 1 will start from Wolvehampton
- All trains will become 4 car
- direct services to birmingham international/coventry on sundays will be cut

Think i have covered all main routes
If you want individual stations search here:
https://www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk/whatsnew?utm_campaign=427102_Dec Timetable Liverpool - Crewe 2nd Dec 2019&utm_medium=email&utm_source=dotmailer&dm_i=4TA0,95JY,2UFWQ9,YLN8,1

Thanks for that. If only LNR had bothered to provide a decent list of changes rather than expecting people to go allover the place for a full picture. A bit like their (non)publication of journey alterations until the last minute and then with minimal detail. Can't wait for EMR to follow the same path of 'mushroom' information management.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks for that. If only LNR had bothered to provide a decent list of changes rather than expecting people to go allover the place for a full picture. A bit like their (non)publication of journey alterations until the last minute and then with minimal detail. Can't wait for EMR to follow the same path of 'mushroom' information management.

They are still not publishing a full timetable, either. Only bits of it.

An utterly execrable TOC in every way.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I've looked at the December 15th timetable improvements for Northampton. Without a TOC wide timetable it's a bit hard to follow but there's an interesting change in the afternoon / early evening. It shows new fast trains at (about) xx.58 from 15.58 to 20.59
These will be non-stop to Euston, but are trains originating at Liverpool. At present, these arrive about xx.51 and depart at xx.05. So, for these trains, the opportunity to recover late running is lost by removing the (about) 12 minutes standing at Northampton.
The present xx.05 departures will remain, with the same stopping pattern, but starting from Northampton.

 

[STKKK46]

I've looked at the December 15th timetable improvements for Northampton. Without a TOC wide timetable it's a bit hard to follow but there's an interesting change in the afternoon / early evening. It shows new fast trains at (about) xx.58 from 15.58 to 20.59
These will be non-stop to Euston, but are trains originating at Liverpool. At present, these arrive about xx.51 and depart at xx.05. So, for these trains, the opportunity to recover late running is lost by removing the (about) 12 minutes standing at Northampton.
The present xx.05 departures will remain, with the same stopping pattern, but starting from Northampton.

You’d imagine if the Liverpool-Euston is significantly late through Cov corridor they may run fast from Rugby. Less people inconvenienced with a Long Buckby/Northampton behind.

 

[Merle Haggard]

You’d imagine if the Liverpool-Euston is significantly late through Cov corridor they may run fast from Rugby. Less people inconvenienced with a Long Buckby/Northampton behind.

Even if there's problems via Northampton that aren't LNwR's fault (flooding, freight train loco failure) the only LNwR trains to run via Weedon are the hourly Trent Valley Crewe trains booked that way. Presumably Virgin dictate - dates back to LM days, and I doubt that VWC are more friendly to LNwR!

When running 'express' due to late running it's most likely non stop calling only NMP LBY RUG COV BHI BHM. Exceptionally (but not that unusually) it NMP r/a BHM!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've looked at the December 15th timetable improvements for Northampton. Without a TOC wide timetable it's a bit hard to follow but there's an interesting change in the afternoon / early evening. It shows new fast trains at (about) xx.58 from 15.58 to 20.59
These will be non-stop to Euston, but are trains originating at Liverpool. At present, these arrive about xx.51 and depart at xx.05. So, for these trains, the opportunity to recover late running is lost by removing the (about) 12 minutes standing at Northampton.
The present xx.05 departures will remain, with the same stopping pattern, but starting from Northampton.

Presumably these are just running the extra coaches that would be added to those trains at Northampton for the evening peak as a separate train, and so adding them at Euston instead? An interesting idea, but surely this is going to spread scarce crews even more thinly.

Can they not just keep it simple? Is there someone in their planning department who just has to be a smart alec and do something clever that, like before, just won't work?

Edit: Had a thought...is this a means of ensuring that the train it forms from Euston will always operate something close to time, but in doing so making a short-form very highly likely indeed (and similarly the cancellation of the Liverpool if they're a crew short)? Slightly clever but still overcomplicated.

 

[jhy44]

Would be a good idea to check but in summary:
adding extra carriages to 2 services

Rugeley via Birmingham/Walsall:
- Instead of 2 trains from london every hour, 1 will start from Wolvehampton
- All trains will become 4 car
- direct services to birmingham international/coventry on sundays will be cut

I'm confused; at present it seems the Rugeley line already has 1tph to Euston, 1tph to Birmingham International.
Yet it seems that the arrivals are 2tph from Euston?

 

[sufian123]

I'm confused; at present it seems the Rugeley line already has 1tph to Euston, 1tph to Birmingham International.
Yet it seems that the arrivals are 2tph from Euston?

Your not confused you are right. 2 trains a hour from Euston, however one set terminates at new st then continues to rgl, still classed as coming from Enron, latter is all the way from Euston.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Might be worth pointing out that even railway enthusiasts with an interest in train working get confused by how the service operates, in the absence of any timetable showing the whole service. What chance for a prospective passenger, intelligent but with little railway knowledge?

Even NRES gets confused. For Northampton, the departure screens show two Rugeley services per hour but the journey planner seems to ignore one of them. An added confusion, of course, is that a journey to Rugeley Town can also be made (more quickly) by changing at Rugby onto a TV train with a further change at the inhospitable Rugeley TV.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even NRES gets confused. For Northampton, the departure screens show two Rugeley services per hour but the journey planner seems to ignore one of them. An added confusion, of course, is that a journey to Rugeley Town can also be made (more quickly) by changing at Rugby onto a TV train with a further change at the inhospitable Rugeley TV.

This happens where a train is in the timetable in two bits. There is presently, for instance, a through service from Ormskirk-Blackpool South (though not the other way). However as the timetable has it as a separate Ormskirk-Preston and Preston-Blackpool train, it shows a 61 minute connection at Preston as the "1 minute connection" isn't official.

This costs passengers.

 

[RealTrains07]

I'm confused; at present it seems the Rugeley line already has 1tph to Euston, 1tph to Birmingham International.
Yet it seems that the arrivals are 2tph from Euston?

Thats correct

 

[RealTrains07]

New timetable has started today, time to see whether the sunday liverpool - london services are more successful now they dont have to join up at Birmingham?

does anyone know whether the new stafford - london service is 4 or 8 car?

 

[sufian123]

New timetable has started today, time to see whether the sunday liverpool - london services are more successful now they dont have to join up at Birmingham?

does anyone know whether the new stafford - london service is 4 or 8 car?

it should be admixture of 4 or 8 cars, it’s the extended Birmingham service.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

New timetable has started today, time to see whether the sunday liverpool - london services are more successful now they dont have to join up at Birmingham?

Many services still have to join/divide from other services at Birmingham New Street.

Changing which service links with which will not necessarily solve anything. Part of the problem was having trains available, but no staff to operate them - that will only be solved by staff having longer breaks to allow for delays / more staff to cover the turns / 'hot spares' hanging around waiting for problems to occur and step in. Similarly, any late running will still require trains being sent direct via Madeley instead of via Stoke. Southbound in order for them to present at New Street in time to meet their wedding partner, or northbound to allow for staff breaks before returning south.

Cancellations at Stone over the past few weeks have hovered around 20%. The best week managed just 4% cancellations. There are no apparent changes to achieve improved perfomance of services via Stone / Stoke-on-Trent. Most trains still join/divide at Birmingham.

 

[RealTrains07]

Many services still have to join/divide from other services at Birmingham New Street.

Changing which service links with which will not necessarily solve anything. Part of the problem was having trains available, but no staff to operate them - that will only be solved by staff having longer breaks to allow for delays / more staff to cover the turns / 'hot spares' hanging around waiting for problems to occur and step in. Similarly, any late running will still require trains being sent direct via Madeley instead of via Stoke. Southbound in order for them to present at New Street in time to meet their wedding partner, or northbound to allow for staff breaks before returning south.

Cancellations at Stone over the past few weeks have hovered around 20%. The best week managed just 4% cancellations. There are no apparent changes to achieve improved perfomance of services via Stone / Stoke-on-Trent. Most trains still join/divide at Birmingham.

Specifically the Sunday timetable is what should be tested really as its been known for a while that LNR were planning to match their Sunday timetable with the weekly timetable plus now with changes to the rugeley service plus the extra stafford train

 

[RealTrains07]

it should be admixture of 4 or 8 cars, it’s the extended Birmingham service.

Makes you wonder why it wasn’t given to crewe via stoke? Considering thats where one of the hourly birmingham goes to during the week?

 

[sufian123]

Makes you wonder why it wasn’t given to crewe via stoke? Considering thats where one of the hourly birmingham goes to during the week?

true. Stone, Kidsgrove and Alsager can’t hold 8 cars, so it has to be 4. This is mainly, Birmingham termination extended to Stafford, Liverpool on Sunday’s. Coventry local extended to Crewe on Sunday’s. rgl ones runs between Birmingham and Rugeley only.

 

[RealTrains07]

Would anyone be able to find out why a LNR 350 just passed through stafford at around 14:40?

 

[87015]

Would anyone be able to find out why a LNR 350 just passed through stafford at around 14:40?

Couldn’t you have looked it up?
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P84826/2019-12-28/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O75477/2019-12-28/detailed

 

[DavidGrain]

Couldn’t you have looked it up?
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P84826/2019-12-28/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O75477/2019-12-28/detailed

The scheduled train was cancelled between Crewe and Birmingham but still operated from Birmingham to London.
The actual train and the train on which the question was about was an additional ECS repositioning train to get the stock to Birmingham to pair up with the train from Liverpool to run on to London as scheduled. The reason for this was not given on RTT for the ECS train.
My guess is that the crew had not signed for Stoke and therefore could not operate the scheduled service

 

[RealTrains07]

The scheduled train was cancelled between Crewe and Birmingham but still operated from Birmingham to London.
The actual train and the train on which the question was about was an additional ECS repositioning train to get the stock to Birmingham to pair up with the train from Liverpool to run on to London as scheduled. The reason for this was not given on RTT for the ECS train.
My guess is that the crew had not signed for Stoke and therefore could not operate the scheduled service

Makes sense. I wondered if that was the reason why

 

[Merle Haggard]

Could it perhaps have been driver available but no conductor? This used to be a reason for trains (annoyingly) being caped but running ECS in booked path in the past, Euston-Northampton.

 

[DavidGrain]

Another post has said that only Crewe depot staff are signed for Stoke. This shows the absurdity of the timetable that requires say Birmingham depot staff being rostered for trains via Stoke. We are still on this thread talking about changes made in the May timetable. There was a December timetable change but it still looks as if there has been no real improvement.